I do find it funny that people are bent out of shape by the "cardboard" end caps. They are a fiber based end cap that probably has a better seal than any metal end cap can have. They are not cardboard at all. Fiber seals better to fiber. I have taken apart filters and the metal end caps have fallen off! That isn't going to happen as easily with the fiber end caps. I think the Tough Guard gets my vote.....until proven otherwise.
Fram Tough Guard or Purolator Pureone
- Thread starter DirtRacer53
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Both have very high filtration, but the Fram is one of the more restrictive filters flow wise out there whereas the PureOne is one of the best.
KC, not sure which Fram you're talking about. But a while back Motorking gave us some flow vs PSID data from Fram for the Ultra and it looked like the Ultra flowed slightly better than the PureOne did. I don't know were those threads are, but you could search for Motorking's postings and probably find it pretty easily.
I'd think the TG would flow pretty good too. Motorking could probably obtain a few flow vs PSID measurements if someone really wanted to know.
Both have very high filtration, but the Fram is one of the more restrictive filters flow wise out there whereas the PureOne is one of the best.
KC, not sure which Fram you're talking about. But a while back Motorking gave us some flow vs PSID data from Fram for the Ultra and it looked like the Ultra flowed slightly better than the PureOne did. I don't know were those threads are, but you could search for Motorking's postings and probably find it pretty easily.
I'd think the TG would flow pretty good too. Motorking could probably obtain a few flow vs PSID measurements if someone really wanted to know.
Originally Posted By: David1
what???? Fram has good FLOW... I think its 3 GPM... 3 gallons per Minute. if thats not good flow, then nothing is.
This is what good flow looks like ... low PSID (delta-p across the media) at high GPM flow rates.
PureOne Flow Test Data from Purolator
what???? Fram has good FLOW... I think its 3 GPM... 3 gallons per Minute. if thats not good flow, then nothing is.
This is what good flow looks like ... low PSID (delta-p across the media) at high GPM flow rates.
PureOne Flow Test Data from Purolator
Why's it always Fram or Purolator ?
Are they the only two oil filter companies in the world ?
Are they the only two oil filter companies in the world ?
Originally Posted By: Cooper
I also have myself and have observed others stating that there is increased low oil pressure at startup and cold with the Ultra.
At cold start and near idle, the oil pressure should not change at all with different oil filters if all other variables are held constant. With a positive displacement oil pump, you will not see the effects of a more restrictive filter on oil pressure until you rev the engine sky high.
I've used 4 or 5 different brand filers on my Z06, and I have not seen any difference at all throughout the whole RPM range while the oil is at the same temperature during each measurement.
If you oil is slightly colder or hotter each time you start your car, the oil pressure will be different due to the oil's viscosity which changes with temperature.
I also have myself and have observed others stating that there is increased low oil pressure at startup and cold with the Ultra.
At cold start and near idle, the oil pressure should not change at all with different oil filters if all other variables are held constant. With a positive displacement oil pump, you will not see the effects of a more restrictive filter on oil pressure until you rev the engine sky high.
I've used 4 or 5 different brand filers on my Z06, and I have not seen any difference at all throughout the whole RPM range while the oil is at the same temperature during each measurement.
If you oil is slightly colder or hotter each time you start your car, the oil pressure will be different due to the oil's viscosity which changes with temperature.
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Well you don't see tears on TG's? That's enough reason for me to stop using the Tearolators and switch to a quality brand!
Anyone keeping track of the rip rate on the puro's?
yea I have been keeping up with Tearolators.. I think they got a bad batch... or perhaps the place that makes Quality Control went down.
Reminds me of that movie SPLASH with TOM HANKS and JOHN CANDY when they owned that produce company and the Q/C people were removing the bad onions from the line and John Candy was saying there is nothing wrong with them ONIONS... and he kept throwing the onions and produce the qualty control people were removing and putting them back in the line to be packaged.. Then at the end of the scene John Candy picks up the whole contianer of the bad onions and puts them ALL on the line for packaging
Anyone remember that??
anways Purolators Quality Control is not doing a good job as of late. I really do hope they do.
Perhaps its b/c the new Purolator Synthetic Oil filter is not doing as good at they wanted.
Or Perhaps they really didnt need that filter to begin with.
The PureOne was fine.
Well you don't see tears on TG's? That's enough reason for me to stop using the Tearolators and switch to a quality brand!
Anyone keeping track of the rip rate on the puro's?
yea I have been keeping up with Tearolators.. I think they got a bad batch... or perhaps the place that makes Quality Control went down.
Reminds me of that movie SPLASH with TOM HANKS and JOHN CANDY when they owned that produce company and the Q/C people were removing the bad onions from the line and John Candy was saying there is nothing wrong with them ONIONS... and he kept throwing the onions and produce the qualty control people were removing and putting them back in the line to be packaged.. Then at the end of the scene John Candy picks up the whole contianer of the bad onions and puts them ALL on the line for packaging
Anyone remember that??
anways Purolators Quality Control is not doing a good job as of late. I really do hope they do.
Perhaps its b/c the new Purolator Synthetic Oil filter is not doing as good at they wanted.
Or Perhaps they really didnt need that filter to begin with.
The PureOne was fine.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Cooper
I also have myself and have observed others stating that there is increased low oil pressure at startup and cold with the Ultra.
At cold start and near idle, the oil pressure should not change at all with different oil filters if all other variables are held constant. With a positive displacement oil pump, you will not see the effects of a more restrictive filter on oil pressure until you rev the engine sky high.
I've used 4 or 5 different brand filers on my Z06, and I have not seen any difference at all throughout the whole RPM range while the oil is at the same temperature during each measurement.
If you oil is slightly colder or hotter each time you start your car, the oil pressure will be different due to the oil's viscosity which changes with temperature.
Honestly, I have no idea why I am getting increased startup noise with the Fram Ultra in place. I really like the filter and want to continue using them.
I am going to do a small test with the Ultra vs the Tough Guard. Keeping all things the same, I am going to switch the filters multiple days between each other and test start up noise to see if there is a difference.....Same oil, topped up, two different filters on morning startup at similar temps and the car has sat overnight. If there is a notable difference between the two, I will note it here...
I will use new filters for both and remove the current Fram Ultra from the equation with a new filter of each.
Originally Posted By: Cooper
I also have myself and have observed others stating that there is increased low oil pressure at startup and cold with the Ultra.
At cold start and near idle, the oil pressure should not change at all with different oil filters if all other variables are held constant. With a positive displacement oil pump, you will not see the effects of a more restrictive filter on oil pressure until you rev the engine sky high.
I've used 4 or 5 different brand filers on my Z06, and I have not seen any difference at all throughout the whole RPM range while the oil is at the same temperature during each measurement.
If you oil is slightly colder or hotter each time you start your car, the oil pressure will be different due to the oil's viscosity which changes with temperature.
Honestly, I have no idea why I am getting increased startup noise with the Fram Ultra in place. I really like the filter and want to continue using them.
I am going to do a small test with the Ultra vs the Tough Guard. Keeping all things the same, I am going to switch the filters multiple days between each other and test start up noise to see if there is a difference.....Same oil, topped up, two different filters on morning startup at similar temps and the car has sat overnight. If there is a notable difference between the two, I will note it here...
I will use new filters for both and remove the current Fram Ultra from the equation with a new filter of each.
Another note.....
I am doing this "home test" for personal reasons and only for the the end result of using one filter over the other in my current application. It is not a test to show which filter is better than the other. The Fram Ultra is obviously the premium filter......
I am doing this "home test" for personal reasons and only for the the end result of using one filter over the other in my current application. It is not a test to show which filter is better than the other. The Fram Ultra is obviously the premium filter......
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Yes, it's hard to beat the Ultra. It's a filter I've come to like over the PureOne now. Products change, perception changes, and people chose what they see as best at any given time.
A lot of truth in that statement. Just look how Purolator has fallen out of good Grace here. They better be listening and get their act together.
Yes, it's hard to beat the Ultra. It's a filter I've come to like over the PureOne now. Products change, perception changes, and people chose what they see as best at any given time.
A lot of truth in that statement. Just look how Purolator has fallen out of good Grace here. They better be listening and get their act together.
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Honestly, I have no idea why I am getting increased startup noise with the Fram Ultra in place. I really like the filter and want to continue using them.
I am going to do a small test with the Ultra vs the Tough Guard. Keeping all things the same, I am going to switch the filters multiple days between each other and test start up noise to see if there is a difference.....Same oil, topped up, two different filters on morning startup at similar temps and the car has sat overnight. If there is a notable difference between the two, I will note it here...
I will use new filters for both and remove the current Fram Ultra from the equation with a new filter of each.
You could have gotten an Ultra with a leaky ADBV. IMO, the Ultra should be less flow restrictive than the TG. Start-up noise isn't related to flow restriction, it's usually related to the oiling system leaking down over night due to a leaky ADBV.
Sounds like a good test plan, let us know what you find.
Honestly, I have no idea why I am getting increased startup noise with the Fram Ultra in place. I really like the filter and want to continue using them.
I am going to do a small test with the Ultra vs the Tough Guard. Keeping all things the same, I am going to switch the filters multiple days between each other and test start up noise to see if there is a difference.....Same oil, topped up, two different filters on morning startup at similar temps and the car has sat overnight. If there is a notable difference between the two, I will note it here...
I will use new filters for both and remove the current Fram Ultra from the equation with a new filter of each.
You could have gotten an Ultra with a leaky ADBV. IMO, the Ultra should be less flow restrictive than the TG. Start-up noise isn't related to flow restriction, it's usually related to the oiling system leaking down over night due to a leaky ADBV.
Sounds like a good test plan, let us know what you find.
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Both have very high filtration, but the Fram is one of the more restrictive filters flow wise out there whereas the PureOne is one of the best. And the interior construction of the PureOne is much stouter as well, given that the PureOne usually costs a bit less also the contest is over in my mind.
Nothing "wrong" with the Toughgard I'd use one if it came from a special but it's not a great value if you're just going to go buy a filter. I've never had a "problem" with either but greatly prefer the PureOne.
Wow yes I've completely flipped, and it has nothing to do with the "Tear-O-Later" issue either. The Tough Guard is now my preferred (and has been for quite a while) high efficiency filter for longer OCI's. I had problems with Puro ADBV's and found the Tough Guard worked much much better for me. And having cut several TG's open after use I've liked what I found as well.
Do you still feel as if the Tough Guard is too restrictive?
Nope. I know more about filters now than I did then. That opinion was based on an old test done by GM I believe but in a properly functioning engine "filter flow" is essentially irrelevant.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Both have very high filtration, but the Fram is one of the more restrictive filters flow wise out there whereas the PureOne is one of the best. And the interior construction of the PureOne is much stouter as well, given that the PureOne usually costs a bit less also the contest is over in my mind.
Nothing "wrong" with the Toughgard I'd use one if it came from a special but it's not a great value if you're just going to go buy a filter. I've never had a "problem" with either but greatly prefer the PureOne.
Wow yes I've completely flipped, and it has nothing to do with the "Tear-O-Later" issue either. The Tough Guard is now my preferred (and has been for quite a while) high efficiency filter for longer OCI's. I had problems with Puro ADBV's and found the Tough Guard worked much much better for me. And having cut several TG's open after use I've liked what I found as well.
Do you still feel as if the Tough Guard is too restrictive?
Nope. I know more about filters now than I did then. That opinion was based on an old test done by GM I believe but in a properly functioning engine "filter flow" is essentially irrelevant.
David1 and Z06 this is an old thread you are debating my old post from 2012. I have completely flipped since then, read my more recent posts, I agree with both of you.
The Tough Guard is my favorite filter bar none IF I am going to spend more than 3 bucks on an oil filter.
The Tough Guard is my favorite filter bar none IF I am going to spend more than 3 bucks on an oil filter.
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Cooper
I also have myself and have observed others stating that there is increased low oil pressure at startup and cold with the Ultra.
At cold start and near idle, the oil pressure should not change at all with different oil filters if all other variables are held constant. With a positive displacement oil pump, you will not see the effects of a more restrictive filter on oil pressure until you rev the engine sky high.
I've used 4 or 5 different brand filers on my Z06, and I have not seen any difference at all throughout the whole RPM range while the oil is at the same temperature during each measurement.
If you oil is slightly colder or hotter each time you start your car, the oil pressure will be different due to the oil's viscosity which changes with temperature.
Honestly, I have no idea why I am getting increased startup noise with the Fram Ultra in place. I really like the filter and want to continue using them.
I am going to do a small test with the Ultra vs the Tough Guard. Keeping all things the same, I am going to switch the filters multiple days between each other and test start up noise to see if there is a difference.....Same oil, topped up, two different filters on morning startup at similar temps and the car has sat overnight. If there is a notable difference between the two, I will note it here...
I will use new filters for both and remove the current Fram Ultra from the equation with a new filter of each.
Very interesting you're getting an increased start up noise with the Ultra. I would think it'd be comparable to the TG with identical bypasses.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Cooper
I also have myself and have observed others stating that there is increased low oil pressure at startup and cold with the Ultra.
At cold start and near idle, the oil pressure should not change at all with different oil filters if all other variables are held constant. With a positive displacement oil pump, you will not see the effects of a more restrictive filter on oil pressure until you rev the engine sky high.
I've used 4 or 5 different brand filers on my Z06, and I have not seen any difference at all throughout the whole RPM range while the oil is at the same temperature during each measurement.
If you oil is slightly colder or hotter each time you start your car, the oil pressure will be different due to the oil's viscosity which changes with temperature.
Honestly, I have no idea why I am getting increased startup noise with the Fram Ultra in place. I really like the filter and want to continue using them.
I am going to do a small test with the Ultra vs the Tough Guard. Keeping all things the same, I am going to switch the filters multiple days between each other and test start up noise to see if there is a difference.....Same oil, topped up, two different filters on morning startup at similar temps and the car has sat overnight. If there is a notable difference between the two, I will note it here...
I will use new filters for both and remove the current Fram Ultra from the equation with a new filter of each.
Very interesting you're getting an increased start up noise with the Ultra. I would think it'd be comparable to the TG with identical bypasses.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Cooper
I also have myself and have observed others stating that there is increased low oil pressure at startup and cold with the Ultra.
At cold start and near idle, the oil pressure should not change at all with different oil filters if all other variables are held constant. With a positive displacement oil pump, you will not see the effects of a more restrictive filter on oil pressure until you rev the engine sky high.
I've used 4 or 5 different brand filers on my Z06, and I have not seen any difference at all throughout the whole RPM range while the oil is at the same temperature during each measurement.
If you oil is slightly colder or hotter each time you start your car, the oil pressure will be different due to the oil's viscosity which changes with temperature.
Honestly, I have no idea why I am getting increased startup noise with the Fram Ultra in place. I really like the filter and want to continue using them.
I am going to do a small test with the Ultra vs the Tough Guard. Keeping all things the same, I am going to switch the filters multiple days between each other and test start up noise to see if there is a difference.....Same oil, topped up, two different filters on morning startup at similar temps and the car has sat overnight. If there is a notable difference between the two, I will note it here...
I will use new filters for both and remove the current Fram Ultra from the equation with a new filter of each.
Very interesting you're getting an increased start up noise with the Ultra. I would think it'd be comparable to the TG with identical bypasses.
Also, startup noise shouldn't be associated with the ADBV in my application since the filter is mounted upside down with the opening facing up so oil will not drain "up" into the engine. I will be testing it more over the next week as I have listed.....
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Cooper
I also have myself and have observed others stating that there is increased low oil pressure at startup and cold with the Ultra.
At cold start and near idle, the oil pressure should not change at all with different oil filters if all other variables are held constant. With a positive displacement oil pump, you will not see the effects of a more restrictive filter on oil pressure until you rev the engine sky high.
I've used 4 or 5 different brand filers on my Z06, and I have not seen any difference at all throughout the whole RPM range while the oil is at the same temperature during each measurement.
If you oil is slightly colder or hotter each time you start your car, the oil pressure will be different due to the oil's viscosity which changes with temperature.
Honestly, I have no idea why I am getting increased startup noise with the Fram Ultra in place. I really like the filter and want to continue using them.
I am going to do a small test with the Ultra vs the Tough Guard. Keeping all things the same, I am going to switch the filters multiple days between each other and test start up noise to see if there is a difference.....Same oil, topped up, two different filters on morning startup at similar temps and the car has sat overnight. If there is a notable difference between the two, I will note it here...
I will use new filters for both and remove the current Fram Ultra from the equation with a new filter of each.
Very interesting you're getting an increased start up noise with the Ultra. I would think it'd be comparable to the TG with identical bypasses.
Also, startup noise shouldn't be associated with the ADBV in my application since the filter is mounted upside down with the opening facing up so oil will not drain "up" into the engine. I will be testing it more over the next week as I have listed.....
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Also, startup noise shouldn't be associated with the ADBV in my application since the filter is mounted upside down with the opening facing up so oil will not drain "up" into the engine. I will be testing it more over the next week as I have listed.....
Actually, the oiling system can still drain down back through a leaky ADBV in that configuration depending on the exact design of the oiling system and exactly where the filter is located on the engine.
Also, startup noise shouldn't be associated with the ADBV in my application since the filter is mounted upside down with the opening facing up so oil will not drain "up" into the engine. I will be testing it more over the next week as I have listed.....
Actually, the oiling system can still drain down back through a leaky ADBV in that configuration depending on the exact design of the oiling system and exactly where the filter is located on the engine.
I had start up issues with the Extended Guard I tried (predecessor to the Ultra) but none with Tough Guards. I don't know why exactly, but I use the Tough Guards ever since.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I had start up issues with the Extended Guard I tried (predecessor to the Ultra) but none with Tough Guards. I don't know why exactly, but I use the Tough Guards ever since.
Someone else around here posted a similar situation with startup noise and Fram Ultra filters. I believe it was on an Accord.....
I had start up issues with the Extended Guard I tried (predecessor to the Ultra) but none with Tough Guards. I don't know why exactly, but I use the Tough Guards ever since.
Someone else around here posted a similar situation with startup noise and Fram Ultra filters. I believe it was on an Accord.....
I liked Splash, but don't recall that scene.
The Purolator issue is not a matter of Q.C. errors. It is a design flaw or a lack of production control process. The improper pleating has been around for at least 3 years, and that only happens if it was intentional, or if they were ignorant/oblivious to the why it is a problem. That is, how did such a glaring flaw go undetected for years, especially when they were informed years ago by end user complaints?
The Purolator issue is not a matter of Q.C. errors. It is a design flaw or a lack of production control process. The improper pleating has been around for at least 3 years, and that only happens if it was intentional, or if they were ignorant/oblivious to the why it is a problem. That is, how did such a glaring flaw go undetected for years, especially when they were informed years ago by end user complaints?
Last edited:
- Status
