How much moly is HPL putting in the Supercar oil?
FM chemistry and MDS
- Thread starter OVERKILL
- Start date
HPL says in the 750ppm range.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Yup, a lot. They also don't just use one type of moly.
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I don't really track fuel mileage, it gets below 10mpg during the winter, currently I think it is showing around 13, it goes up in the summer. I could tell you it does "seem" better, but I haven't been tracking it close enough to know for sure at this juncture; to provide some meaningful quantitative figures that would be required to answer your query. I could give you the ins-and-outs of the MDS system and its components but I'm not sure that would be helpful, as I always just assumed the rumble was the imbalance created by only half the cylinders firing. Perhaps there is a harmonic component to the "lifter inside a lifter" arrangement? I feel like I'm reaching with that though.
Well, Dave could probably give us that information (if there is a component with extremely high viscosity) if that's the case, as that shouldn't be "top secret", I'll tag him again, @High Performance Lubricants.
On the generics, while I get your critique, we are sort of limited here by the grade in terms of what the options are. You are limited by Noack, CCS and MRV so your base oil blend has to be reasonably light to retain the Winter rating, but heavy enough to keep Noack volatility below 10%. This is a bit different from your gear oil example. HPL's use of POE is probably more generous than mainstream marques, but Redline uses a fair bit of it and I've heard nothing similar from the folks that have run it in these engines.
Where there may be a difference is on their use of AN's, which are only available (at least from XOM Chemical) in two viscosities: 12.4cSt, which has "less than great" cold temperature performance with a -40C visc of 392,500cSt, but a Noack of 4.5%, and their 5cSt one, which has a VI of 74, a -40C visc of 43,600cSt and a Noack of 12.7%. They are more dense than the PAO bases.
There's also Mobil's mPAO, but I don't know if that's being used here, I don't THINK so? Those are some viscous puppies at 65cSt and 150cSt. These have very high VI's of 179 and 210 respectively.
Dr. Rudnick is clearly a master of his craft and I suspect that there is some stuff being done with formulation that is trade secret type material, but I don't think our efforts here in trying to determine what is happening (what is being muted), what the mechanism is to cause it (the muting) encroach on that or produce questions that can't be answered because it would be too revealing. Of course I could also be totally wrong on that too, lol.
D
Deleted member 89374
Next thing you know, it cures the infamous HEMI tick.
The HEMI tick is probably just noisy rocker arms and push rods that are either worn out or out of spec.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
BOOM! Amazing, thanks for confirming! @High Performance Lubricants Dave will want to hear this, lol, because he's just as baffled as we are as to why this happens.
See, I had the opposite experience … I ran PP Euro 0w40 in my ‘06 Ody, and not only was it so smooth you couldn’t tell it was running, it turned in the best (of the essentially incomparable) UOAs, at the longest distance run.
Jeez, now burla is probably going to show back up on this board under a new name… he was incessant with the whole Redline Oil/Tick-stop shtickNext thing you know, it cures the infamous HEMI tick.
The HEMI tick is probably just noisy rocker arms and push rods that are either worn out or out of spec.
To be fair, mine is almost unnoticeable as it currently is. I'm running M1 EP 0W20. So, I am not sure how much better it can be.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
He has a DS, no frame-mounted dampers.
Crazy how different people can have different experiences, isn’t it? Even my wife noticed there was a difference but I didn’t tell her I put w30 in it. All she knew was the oil was changed.
Yep, the sound is still noticeable with the flowmaster unless it’s under next to no load when it goes into MDS. The first time it went into MDS I didn’t even notice until I came to a hill!
D
Deleted member 89374
Rumor has it that Burla is still "ticking" (no pun intended) and plotting hisJeez, now burla is probably going to show back up on this board under a new name… he was incessant with the whole Redline Oil/Tick-stop shtick
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Shel_B
Site Donor 2023
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- Aug 7, 2020
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Thank you for that.
So this is with the Premium plus oil you posted in the photo section? Overkill had some oil made specifically for him, so it would be a different formula, correct? Is the oil used from the batch made for him?
I had sent a PM to HPL about doing the same thing for me, except in a 5w20 to keep the variables down in a testing situation. I have never used anything but 5w20 in mine, so to keep everything the same other than the oil, it needed to be the same viscosity in my truck.
Yes, I didn’t see 5w20 when I ordered mine but it’s there now… likely I just missed it. I have also noticed my oil pressure stays at 50psi at 210F consistently while cruising now, with the Valvoline it would be 48-49psi at 210F. Not ground breaking or anything, just something I noticed.So this is with the Premium plus oil you posted in the photo section? Overkill had some oil made specifically for him, so it would be a different formula, correct? Is the oil used from the batch made for him?
I had sent a PM to HPL about doing the same thing for me, except in a 5w20 to keep the variables down in a testing situation. I have never used anything but 5w20 in mine, so to keep everything the same other than the oil, it needed to be the same viscosity in my truck.
These oils are all pretty high moly, I wonder if that's what is making a difference here.
I don't remember how the mds sounded before I switched to HPL. But it's not that noticable to me. I only have around 3500 miles on my truck. I probably switched to HPL around the 2k mark.
I don't remember how the mds sounded before I switched to HPL. But it's not that noticable to me. I only have around 3500 miles on my truck. I probably switched to HPL around the 2k mark.
I’m at 31,500 miles. It’s not so much how it sounds because it still does the 4 banger rumble thanks to my flowmaster, but it “feels” smoother. Having driven a bit more since changing over to it, it still will have a bit of vibration if there is a hill, but otherwise is a seamless transition from 8 to 4, before it was pretty noticeable to me.
So if your MDS is “noticeably smoother” using the premium plus 0w20, that tells me that the supercar 0w40 additive pack in OVERKILL’s special blend is not the variable that is smoothing out the “MDS rumble”.
With that said, yours is “noticeably smoother” while he described his as “imperceptible”. It’s possible that the difference between smoother and imperceptible is the difference between his Grand Cherokee with its 6.4 vs our Rams with the 5.7l. As for his Ram, it could be the difference between our older body style without dampers vs his with the dampers.
I need a cup of coffee. My brain is working too hard on a Saturday morning.
