EPA Fining Tuning company $300K
- Thread starter StevieC
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Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by Garak
If I remember correctly, some companies were already talking about working from offshore.
I'm surprised they haven't done it already. Incorporate in Grand Cayman or Bermuda and tell the EPA to ram it.
Better yet, China!
Originally Posted by Garak
If I remember correctly, some companies were already talking about working from offshore.
I'm surprised they haven't done it already. Incorporate in Grand Cayman or Bermuda and tell the EPA to ram it.
Better yet, China!
It is my understanding manufactures like GM are incorporating into their systems a setup that if the ECM or any other control is tampered with other than the dealer, it will send a message back via cell like through OnStar to GM.
I just flashed my diesel GL with a green diesel tune and have seen 2 mpg on my 12 mile round trip commute, and 5 mpg on longer highway trips, all while gaining batter throttle response, 25 hp and 65 lb ft of torque. If anything, this is helping the environment! The rolling coal crowd gives it a bad name, and im sure those pictures were all over their website. The GL's exhaust tips are very clean, no soot at all.
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by Garak
If I remember correctly, some companies were already talking about working from offshore.
I'm surprised they haven't done it already. Incorporate in Grand Cayman or Bermuda and tell the EPA to ram it.
Better yet, China!
Yes. To be honest, I wonder what a web search would come up with. I'm sure many (as in all) components of the devices are Chinese in the first place. Now, incorporating and shipping from elsewhere may cause problems, since the States can certainly cut off the border to shipments, but the EPA's ability to fine disappears.
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by Garak
If I remember correctly, some companies were already talking about working from offshore.
I'm surprised they haven't done it already. Incorporate in Grand Cayman or Bermuda and tell the EPA to ram it.
Better yet, China!
Yes. To be honest, I wonder what a web search would come up with. I'm sure many (as in all) components of the devices are Chinese in the first place. Now, incorporating and shipping from elsewhere may cause problems, since the States can certainly cut off the border to shipments, but the EPA's ability to fine disappears.
Originally Posted by Garak
Yes. To be honest, I wonder what a web search would come up with. I'm sure many (as in all) components of the devices are Chinese in the first place. Now, incorporating and shipping from elsewhere may cause problems, since the States can certainly cut off the border to shipments, but the EPA's ability to fine disappears.
I think that is how this happened....
Yes. To be honest, I wonder what a web search would come up with. I'm sure many (as in all) components of the devices are Chinese in the first place. Now, incorporating and shipping from elsewhere may cause problems, since the States can certainly cut off the border to shipments, but the EPA's ability to fine disappears.
I think that is how this happened....
John Deere-like maintenance and electronic nannies are on the horizon... it will just drive the sales for workarounds to places like Russia or China.
I used to live in a Clean Air locale (greater Chicagoland) and IMHO if a car can pass the quick dyno test on the sniffer, there should be no problems.
My favorite illustration that it's not necessary to be a jerk and roll coal was the Gale Banks dragster and S10- they set world records for 1/4 mile times in each class with ZERO smoke. Proper tuning trumps excessive fueling for speed any day!
I used to live in a Clean Air locale (greater Chicagoland) and IMHO if a car can pass the quick dyno test on the sniffer, there should be no problems.
My favorite illustration that it's not necessary to be a jerk and roll coal was the Gale Banks dragster and S10- they set world records for 1/4 mile times in each class with ZERO smoke. Proper tuning trumps excessive fueling for speed any day!
Customer support is going to be an issue with overseas suppliers. There's always going to be a kid whosecar is not runningwl well when he installs the tune. Sure some people will roll the dice but overall the market is going to shrink.
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
John Deere-like maintenance and electronic nannies are on the horizon...!
This is not a joke - - - if John Deere is the "model" for how electronics in vehicles plays out, we are all in very, very, serious trouble.
John Deere-like maintenance and electronic nannies are on the horizon...!
This is not a joke - - - if John Deere is the "model" for how electronics in vehicles plays out, we are all in very, very, serious trouble.
Looks like a money grab.
Originally Posted by Kawiguy454
It is my understanding that after 2018-19 it is going to be almost impossible to hack into vehicle controllers.
I have heard the same thing for years now, And the aftermarket cracks them EVERY TIME. HP Tuners has cracked the '17/'18/'19 LP5 Duramax ECM that was thought to be impossible to access/hack.
This is yet just another "dust-up" between the EPA & companies selling Pre-loaded "Canned" calibration files that defeat emissions devices.......Edge Products was fined a few years ago for the same thing.
As for tuning software itself, Like HP Tuners & EFI Live.....They DO NOT sell pre-loaded calibrations of ANY KIND.....They just sell the means to access the ECM/TCM & the ability to alter the calibration. Using this kind of software requires knowledge & skill by the end user.
SCT, Bully Dog, Edge, Superchips & Diablo [censored] where they ate to capitalize on the Plug & Play market. I'm actually surprised the EPA hasn't been more aggressive in levying fines.
Banks & Dinan have CARB EO certs for most of their stuff, They took a smart-long term approach to the Canned/Hand Held/Plug & Play market.
It is my understanding that after 2018-19 it is going to be almost impossible to hack into vehicle controllers.
I have heard the same thing for years now, And the aftermarket cracks them EVERY TIME. HP Tuners has cracked the '17/'18/'19 LP5 Duramax ECM that was thought to be impossible to access/hack.
This is yet just another "dust-up" between the EPA & companies selling Pre-loaded "Canned" calibration files that defeat emissions devices.......Edge Products was fined a few years ago for the same thing.
As for tuning software itself, Like HP Tuners & EFI Live.....They DO NOT sell pre-loaded calibrations of ANY KIND.....They just sell the means to access the ECM/TCM & the ability to alter the calibration. Using this kind of software requires knowledge & skill by the end user.
SCT, Bully Dog, Edge, Superchips & Diablo [censored] where they ate to capitalize on the Plug & Play market. I'm actually surprised the EPA hasn't been more aggressive in levying fines.
Banks & Dinan have CARB EO certs for most of their stuff, They took a smart-long term approach to the Canned/Hand Held/Plug & Play market.
As long as a scan-tool can talk to the ECM then there is a way in. OE's always have to be able to update the software due to recalls and my friend that door might be locked but there is someone that can figure out how to unlock it.
Originally Posted by racin4ds
This is ridiculous! The minuscule amount of people tuning their vehicles and getting rid of junk EPA mandated emissions devices is so small that it won't have any darn effect on clean air! Give me a break! The EPA just needs to go away and be dismantled piece by piece.
Us tuners and custom programmers will get hit hard by this, but I bet you someone finds a loophole or a way around it, they always do. Just now it will cost folks like me a lot more to do it...
SCT was for YEARS selling canned tunes to delete/defeat emissions components & advertised it! What did they think would happen?
This has NOTHING to do custom tuning......If anything, Real tuners will reap the benefits of people not being able to buy Canned Delete Tunes on the open market
This is ridiculous! The minuscule amount of people tuning their vehicles and getting rid of junk EPA mandated emissions devices is so small that it won't have any darn effect on clean air! Give me a break! The EPA just needs to go away and be dismantled piece by piece.
Us tuners and custom programmers will get hit hard by this, but I bet you someone finds a loophole or a way around it, they always do. Just now it will cost folks like me a lot more to do it...
SCT was for YEARS selling canned tunes to delete/defeat emissions components & advertised it! What did they think would happen?
This has NOTHING to do custom tuning......If anything, Real tuners will reap the benefits of people not being able to buy Canned Delete Tunes on the open market
Didn't they go after SCT years ago (like 10 years) for selling "off road" tunes.
With VW and Harley they have case law now...and the government has found out they can make money...
With VW and Harley they have case law now...and the government has found out they can make money...
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by Kawiguy454
It is my understanding that after 2018-19 it is going to be almost impossible to hack into vehicle controllers.
I have heard the same thing for years now, And the aftermarket cracks them EVERY TIME. HP Tuners has cracked the '17/'18/'19 LP5 Duramax ECM that was thought to be impossible to access/hack.
This is yet just another "dust-up" between the EPA & companies selling Pre-loaded "Canned" calibration files that defeat emissions devices.......Edge Products was fined a few years ago for the same thing.
As for tuning software itself, Like HP Tuners & EFI Live.....They DO NOT sell pre-loaded calibrations of ANY KIND.....They just sell the means to access the ECM/TCM & the ability to alter the calibration. Using this kind of software requires knowledge & skill by the end user.
SCT, Bully Dog, Edge, Superchips & Diablo [censored] where they ate to capitalize on the Plug & Play market. I'm actually surprised the EPA hasn't been more aggressive in levying fines.
Banks & Dinan have CARB EO certs for most of their stuff, They took a smart-long term approach to the Canned/Hand Held/Plug & Play market.
Ya. It seems that the smaller shops are intent on selling mult-stage tunes where higher stages require the installation of catless downpipes but the tuner doesn't specifically advertise that as a "requirement". The tuner may even use a race-prep vehicle in its advertisement but everyone knows that the overwhelming majority of the tunes and emission-free parts are going to installed on "on-road" vehicles.
Originally Posted by Kawiguy454
It is my understanding that after 2018-19 it is going to be almost impossible to hack into vehicle controllers.
I have heard the same thing for years now, And the aftermarket cracks them EVERY TIME. HP Tuners has cracked the '17/'18/'19 LP5 Duramax ECM that was thought to be impossible to access/hack.
This is yet just another "dust-up" between the EPA & companies selling Pre-loaded "Canned" calibration files that defeat emissions devices.......Edge Products was fined a few years ago for the same thing.
As for tuning software itself, Like HP Tuners & EFI Live.....They DO NOT sell pre-loaded calibrations of ANY KIND.....They just sell the means to access the ECM/TCM & the ability to alter the calibration. Using this kind of software requires knowledge & skill by the end user.
SCT, Bully Dog, Edge, Superchips & Diablo [censored] where they ate to capitalize on the Plug & Play market. I'm actually surprised the EPA hasn't been more aggressive in levying fines.
Banks & Dinan have CARB EO certs for most of their stuff, They took a smart-long term approach to the Canned/Hand Held/Plug & Play market.
Ya. It seems that the smaller shops are intent on selling mult-stage tunes where higher stages require the installation of catless downpipes but the tuner doesn't specifically advertise that as a "requirement". The tuner may even use a race-prep vehicle in its advertisement but everyone knows that the overwhelming majority of the tunes and emission-free parts are going to installed on "on-road" vehicles.
Originally Posted by Linctex
This is eventually going to hurt diesel truck sales..... most people don't want to deal with how finicky they have become.
Yup, all the guys I know who own late model diesels bought them with the idea that they could tune out a lot of the emissions stuff to make them more reliable. Not saying it's right, but how can you blame them when the truck already costs $60k+ and the emissions system repairs cost in the tens of thousands just to run the thing.
The guys who just blow as much smoke as possible are a different story and their trucks should be impounded.
This is eventually going to hurt diesel truck sales..... most people don't want to deal with how finicky they have become.
Yup, all the guys I know who own late model diesels bought them with the idea that they could tune out a lot of the emissions stuff to make them more reliable. Not saying it's right, but how can you blame them when the truck already costs $60k+ and the emissions system repairs cost in the tens of thousands just to run the thing.
The guys who just blow as much smoke as possible are a different story and their trucks should be impounded.
Originally Posted by racin4ds
This is ridiculous! The minuscule amount of people tuning their vehicles and getting rid of junk EPA mandated emissions devices is so small that it won't have any darn effect on clean air! Give me a break! The EPA just needs to go away and be dismantled piece by piece.
Us tuners and custom programmers will get hit hard by this, but I bet you someone finds a loophole or a way around it, they always do. Just now it will cost folks like me a lot more to do it...
But this is what governments do - justifying their taxpayer funded salaries.
This is ridiculous! The minuscule amount of people tuning their vehicles and getting rid of junk EPA mandated emissions devices is so small that it won't have any darn effect on clean air! Give me a break! The EPA just needs to go away and be dismantled piece by piece.
Us tuners and custom programmers will get hit hard by this, but I bet you someone finds a loophole or a way around it, they always do. Just now it will cost folks like me a lot more to do it...
But this is what governments do - justifying their taxpayer funded salaries.
Definitely a money grab/show of power.
https://www.columbian.com/news/2017/may/05/state-vehicle-emission-tests-to-end/
https://www.columbian.com/news/2017/may/05/state-vehicle-emission-tests-to-end/
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