I don’t know that I agree with how they come about emissions standards but we’ve watched this play out before. If it comes out that this was some defeat system to intentionally make the vehicle dirtier for whatever gain they deserve to have all the fines thrown their way. We can discuss whether or not it’s actually dangerous, but that’s not the issue here. It’s knowingly selling a vehicle that doesn’t meet standards.
Cummins to pay $1.67 billion environmental fine
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So when VW did their cheat, they had to buy all the vehicles back - correct?
But it looks like these will be recalled? What if the owner doesn't want the fix? I presume it will either make it have less power, or use more fuel - otherwise what was the point.
But it looks like these will be recalled? What if the owner doesn't want the fix? I presume it will either make it have less power, or use more fuel - otherwise what was the point.
VW recalled some vehicles and retrofit SCR systems (DEF) on them, but a large number were bought back because it was too onerous to install DEF systems on those particular vehicles. They also got new software, naturally. I am sure not all owners got their cars retrofitted or reflashed, but the risk is that at some point, the state would get refuse to license a non compliant vehicle.
We had a very nice Jetta TDI that VW bought back, basically for what we paid for it.
I wonder how this impacts their off highway products, which also have to meet emissions requirements.
We had a very nice Jetta TDI that VW bought back, basically for what we paid for it.
I wonder how this impacts their off highway products, which also have to meet emissions requirements.
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But you were given the choice - correct? You could keep it and get the fix (which diminished performance), or sell it back?
Doesn't look like the Cummins folks get that option?
If your car could be retrofitted than yes, you could choose to get it fixed or sell it back. If it couldn't be retrofitted, then could only sell back.
It looks like they will just fix the software or whatever on the Cummins fiasco. I wonder how this all plays with all the diesels that have been deleted in the meantime.
That's what the issue is here though... They are not properly tuned for emissions compliance & they in fact went the extra mile to fool their buyers with cheat devices. As for rolling coal... Just because you can't see the smoke doesn't mean it's not affecting your health. No one here vilified diesel's except for Cummins. They should've complied with the law to keep the extra polution contained but they didn't & here we are. Do you think they'll comply now with the correct emissions standards? No one was asking them for extra pollution or to be cheated but to simply follow the law.
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Big picture thinking......... IF these trucks are "brought in" for whatever constitutes the remedy, dont you think there will also be a check for emissions equipment ? Seems like a back door way of engineering a compliance program under a different premise. Based on my totally unscientific. personal experience the Cummins owners are deleted more than the others (I dont have stats though) That plus Cummins hasnt exactly been the favored son of the current administration.
And still to this day the bucket of water, that mining rigs use, (exhaust “water wash” ) removes 100% of pollutants
The real result of this action will be emissions equipment failure every 35,000 miles and likely more pollution in the form of a massive increase of co2
The real result of this action will be emissions equipment failure every 35,000 miles and likely more pollution in the form of a massive increase of co2
Probably.
I'm imagining they'll have to use more DEF and regenerate a lot more, mileage and power both see a drop.
It will be interesting to see if we see more retroactive downward tow ratings applied to vehicles whose owners already invested in a towable.
This started earlier this year and will no doubt be made worse.
On TFL Truck - RAM is retroactively reducing tow rating of HD trucks.
Apparently you can input the VIN of your RAM truck on the RAM website somewhere and see the exact config and capacities of your truck. A viewer discovered that the towing capacity of his truck went down 2000 lbs from when he bought it. TFL owns a 2022 RAM 2500 Cummins and found the same thing...
bobistheoilguy.com
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Somehow, this is OK...
I wonder if they messed up one of their AECDs. Here is a screen shot from Cummins emission application to the EPA, they say they included all of them and there impact on emissions performance and there justification. But I wonder if one of them was found to emit more NOx emissions then it was supposed to.
JHZR2
Staff member
Well, when I say properly tuned, it could be a decade old one. Not even new.
The attempt to shave fractions of a ppm, at the expense of tons of CO2 is folly. A minor change in NOx or particulates for tons of wasted fuel.
It all “jumped the shark” when a 50 MPG Vw diesel, “cheating” or not could be called a “gross polluter”, while an 8 mpg Ford suv could get a “partial zero emissions” certification. Absolutely obnoxious and ridiculous.
They just can vilify diesels easier because the NIMBY and coastal elite detached from reality idiots are mainly sheeple…. And those who “tune” diesels make it worse for everyone too. I love diesels. I don’t want to see black smoke everywhere. I’m good with smart tuning, better controls, even emissions controls… to a point… the point where we’re forced to not have access to diesels to appease California.
I agree 100%. I understand the emissions thing, but using a large amount more of fuel is completely unacceptable.
I don't even think it's vilifying diesels. I just don't think it's possible to get what the EPA wants from it. It's a dirty fuel source in their mind because of it and they've decided it cleans up emissions to use more fuel. I'd like to see smart tuning if that's what I think it is. I don't know if what I picture is possible, but I've never seen a modified one here that isn't driven constantly at full throttle to take off and smoke out a quarter of a community block. The exhaust always seems to be at my window height and even when it isn't tuned to the hilt it smells horrible. I don't know how it's possible unless it's something about how the DEF system is specifically set up on a new Ford, but those in particular give me a headache with the smell they put off. It's completely different than a Duramax or a Cummins that I've noticed. I see plenty of black smoke spewing Cummins and the stock Ford still smells worse.
Hey those smokers have prevented Western Europe from having to learn Russian. I'd say that that was a good thing for the planet..Somehow, this is OK...
Don’t disrespect the Buff!Somehow, this is OK...
Yeah, when you make the rules and enforce them at the end of a barrel, you do whatever you want regardless of what you require the proles to do. History has taught this lesson to the world several times, but somehow the shysters still figure out a way to try it again, forever at someone else’s expense.Somehow, this is OK...
Welcome to the military industrial complex.
GON
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Whenever I see something like this- the question I ask is who is getting the 1.67 Billion? It is unlikely the 1.67 Billion will be going to the US treasury. That is what should be researched.
I understand what you're saying. The VW did somewhat prime the pump a bit. I'm honestly not all that versed in this whole emissions thing. I just think why, why did Cummins do this? They had to know it was sketchy at the bare minimum. Do you think they planned all of this to "Cheat" the system? They have to fork out a lot of money now so I mean what were they thinking? You'd think these companies had some intelligence but it reminds me that big companies have gotten away with things for far too long & this is just another one that thought they'd not get caught or that they wouldn't be punished? I'm just genuinely curious of the business standpoint proposition to this whole situation they've obviously put themselves into. You & I don't just go breaking the law like this so why would they? I'm just baffled & puzzled about it completely. Are you saying their cheating is justified?
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