Like Tuning/Modding/DIY - Then Read This

[BMWTurboDzl]

Yep, all they do is put on the packaging "for off road use only"

It doesn't work. If the EPA comes knocking they're done. There are plenty of news stories where sellers have gone to prison and paid millions in fines over this kind of thing. Although the EPA has recently been pressured not to be so aggressive.

 

[ls1mike]

The Caprice and WS6 are modified, The Caprice I removed the DOD/AFM and have a larger cam. The exhaust is completely stock except for the mufflers. The dealership had cut them off and straight piped it. I had Maganflows installed to quiet it down, I actually just picked up a set of stock mufflers off a wrecked one that I am going to install this weekend. The WS6 is heads, Cam, full exhaust but has Cats and mufflers. We don't do emissions here anymore, but when we did I can tell you the Caprice passes the Sniffer. I am not so sure the WS6 would anymore, but it also going on 25 years old.

I am willing to bet the modified car market is not the way you are going to save the environment.

 

[Bill Judson]

It doesn't work. If the EPA comes knocking they're done. There are plenty of news stories where sellers have gone to prison and paid millions in fines over this kind of thing. Although the EPA has recently been pressured not to be so aggressive.

You know, GM sells racing engines that are labeled for off road use only... and some folks use them on the road anyway.

We don't see the EPA going after GM because customers are misusing their products.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

You know, GM sells racing engines that are labeled for off road use only... and some folks use them on the road anyway.

We don't see the EPA going after GM because customers are misusing their products.

I know people today who run catless downpipes on their German car because they "need" an extra 10 hp so what's your point?

The DOJ and EPA has gone after a lot of people for this.

Three Companies And Eleven Individuals Charged In Major Clean Air Act Case

Defendants Accused of Disabling Emissions Controls on Semi-Trucks; Some Plea Agreements Signed, Investigation Ongoing in One of the Largest Cases of Its Kind

www.justice.gov

Hendersonville Man Is Sentenced To Prison For Violating the Clean Air Act By Selling Thousands Of Illegal Devices That Defeat Required Vehicle Emissions Control Systems

www.justice.gov

Justice Department Files Complaint Alleging Environmental Violations by eBay

The Justice Department filed a complaint against eBay Inc. today for unlawfully selling and distributing hundreds of thousands of products in violation of the Clean Air Act (CAA); the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA) and the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA).

www.justice.gov

 

[Bill Judson]

I know people today who run catless downpipes on their German car because they "need" an extra 10 hp so what's your point?

It's not actually killing the earth.

Besides, who doesn't need an extra 10 HPs these days!

 

[Bill Judson]

The Caprice and WS6 are modified, The Caprice I removed the DOD/AFM

Disabling AFM does not cause more emissions and is not illegal

 

[ls1mike]

Disabling AFM does not cause more emissions and is not illegal

I know. I just listing what was done.

 

[Bill Judson]

I know. I just listing what was done.

Well you know some people probably think all factory settings must be retained to meet emission standards

 

[ls1mike]

Well you know some people probably think all factory settings must be retained to meet emission standards

That is why I mentioned it.
The Cam is 217/23X, .619/.607, 114 LSA
You can modify a car and still pass emission. The WS6 did it with heads, cam, intake, exhaust. Retained the EGR/Cats. They stopped emissions here and I think the cut off was 25 years when they did do it.

 

[Bill Judson]

You can modify a car and still pass emission.

Exactly. In fact, one can make an engine far more efficient thru
tuning and exceed emission standards... if one wanted to.

 

[14.1 Grms]

I'm not talking farm equipment but a farm vehicle which is only used on the farm but the carve out as I said is mostly for racing.

Every owners manual contains verbiage that it's illegal to modify the emissions system of your vehicle. Sometimes there are stickers around the vehicle which have a similar warnings.

I never said it was a lie regarding an increase in mpg. The lie is that your overall emissions are reduced because of said increase in mpg. A defeat device can be a software tune or a tuning box wired into the DDE which codes out EGR and SCR. Another example would be a straight pipe though a hollowed out DPF.

A statement in an owner's manual is not "entering into a contract". There are laws that govern emissions equipment, but again, that's not a contract, and depending on how a vehicle is used, those laws may or may not apply (i.e. if I use my diesel truck for "racing", I'm allowed to modify or remove emissions equipment...because...reasons?). Beyond that tends to get into a political spiral (i.e. multiple lawsuits against the EPA at present).

You can code out EGR, but a diesel delete is a system-level change that no single device implements (removing the DPF without proper tuning is a bad idea). I really don't care about emissions from my truck one way or another - the 1993 Subaru that burns two quarts of oil a week is "legal" but removing a device that is actively working against the reliability and longevity of my diesel engine, to the effect of a minor reduction in emissions gases and a significant reduction in fuel mileage, is illegal. Makes sense.

To wit, I'm not against diesel emissions systems, I just think the way they were implemented (via the EPA at gunpoint) caused the manufacturers to do a hack job in DPF systems, causing a plethora of issues more severe than the commensurate minor reduction in emissions, rather than organically letting efficient, effective ones be developed over a normal product development cycle.

 

[Bill Judson]

This is why it's good to stick with older vehicles!

Less emission requirements which give a brutha mo opportunity for horse power!

 

[RF_Burns]

I have a classic GMC motorhome from the '70s with the Olds Toronado front wheel drive power train. It had a carburetor, but like all carbs, it ran like crap.

So being an Ex-farmboy shade-tree mechanic with 45 years in mobile electronics, I switched it to Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI) with Electronic Spark Control (ESC). Now it starts instantly and runs smooth like a new vehicle. No more run-on dieseling or cranking forever, then belching black smoke when cold or hanging on high idle forever.

It now has modern features like Lean Cruise and Deceleration Fuel Cut-Off. The EFI system I used is all GM from 90's era GM light trucks and vans. Its not an aftermarket kit.

My Province got rid of vehicle emissions testing years ago since almost all vehicles passed easily. But I know owners of GMCs in California have to limp along with the old technology carbs, even though EFI conversion would be cleaner.

 

[GMBoy]

An efficiently running motor will burn clean. With that it is actually possible to modify a vehicle to make more power and altering factory emissions devices yet still be CLEANER at the tailpipe. The key is doing proper modifications that work well together and properly tuning. The shade tree hack that just removes his converters is increasing his tailpipe emissions and really not gaining power worth the trouble. Here is a true story - I own an 87 Buick GN. I have had it since brand new. Buick had a recall the EPROM chip due to the vehicles (all Regal's with the LC2 3.8 Turbo) not meeting emission standards i.e. the polluted too much. I knew the guys at the dealership and they let me keep my old chip when they did the recall to install the replacement chip. The drivability of the new emissions compliant chip was not as good as the original due to the fact GM leaned out the fuel curves. The cars lost some power as well. Now here is where it gets interesting - I used to live in MD where back then all cars had dyno emission sniff tests. I had just passed my test before getting the chip recall done and the car passed ok. Later in the year I added an aftermarket ATR Pitbull chip (better fuel mapping, 18psi of boost vs 13, fans come on sooner, torque converter lockup etc) bigger injectors, ATR ram air and stronger fuel pump along with better dual exhaust (stock was a singe huge muffler) along with some other mods. I kept the stock catalytic converter. Now these minor mods dipped the car into the 12.0-12.2 range on street tires. I also picked up a tiny bit of MPG. The car was modified and tuned in a smart manner to make clean and efficient power and the stock converter in place. The next year the car passed the emissions test BETTER than the stock car did! I made power and did not hurt emissions. It is possible and that is why we see these hellcats, LT4's etc making huge and clean power. My point is long winded - short version is there is right way and wrong way to do everything. A few bad apples ruin the bunch but even so the EPA should leave people alone - or at the least only fine if you don't pass an emisisons test.

 

[Dave9]

It's not a huge difference - the entire point of emissions is ostensibly clean air, and clean air doesn't regulate itself between public and private property.

Yes, it does. The amount of use off of public roads is practically zero for the majority of society (up and down their own driveway), so it directly matters whether the use is on public or private roads, especially when you consider we'd be talking about something "only" allowed to be used on private roads, anything ALSO used on public roads, would have to meet the mandate.

The difference is probably around 5,000% if I were to just spitball a made-up number. Most people's travel on private property is only up and down their own driveway or apartment complex lot, parking lot/garage/etc,

 

[dishdude]

I have a classic GMC motorhome from the '70s with the Olds Toronado front wheel drive power train. It had a carburetor, but like all carbs, it ran like crap.

So being an Ex-farmboy shade-tree mechanic with 45 years in mobile electronics, I switched it to Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI) with Electronic Spark Control (ESC). Now it starts instantly and runs smooth like a new vehicle. No more run-on dieseling or cranking forever, then belching black smoke when cold or hanging on high idle forever.

It now has modern features like Lean Cruise and Deceleration Fuel Cut-Off. The EFI system I used is all GM from 90's era GM light trucks and vans. Its not an aftermarket kit.

My Province got rid of vehicle emissions testing years ago since almost all vehicles passed easily. But I know owners of GMCs in California have to limp along with the old technology carbs, even though EFI conversion would be cleaner.

No one is going after a mod like that, it's the rolling coal fools that brought all this on.