Engine Longevity - Dino vs Synthetic

[Flareside302]

also too many variables as in tuneups, fuel quality. how hard was driven..

and biggest if all.. This is the internet . where people can say anything..

most cars don't kill engines, due to lubrication issues. but when a engine pops to know cause ya need to tear down .

 

[tig1]

85 Escort wagon diesel 300K

91 Ford Ranger 354K

96 Merc GM 218K

All on M1 10-30 with 10K OCIs.

All engines stayed clean, oil consumption stayed the same for the life of the vehicle, and no engines ever showed signs of engine wear or ring coking.

 

[Clevy]

I bought an 04 ram quad cab hemi 4x4 last winter. It had dealer bulk conventional oil changes its entire life. Truck came with service records and receipts for everything done to it.
I bought it with 240k. It didn't consume a drop of oil between changes and was just as responsive as the day it drove off the assembly line.
I don't believe synthetic oils will keep a regular passenger vehicles engine going any longer than conventional oil will when proper service intervals are performed.
In more demanding applications synthetic oils do offer more and can tolerate high heat for longer and doesn't break down as quickly,important attributes when pushing an engine hard.
I use synthetics for that warm fuzzy feeling it gives me,and I buy it all on sale when its cheaper than conventionals regular price,so basically I'm getting a better product for the same dollar spent. Do I need synthetic? Probably not,but its cost effective and I can run longer drains more comfortably.
Today's mineral oils are light years ahead of what they were even 10 years ago,so you can't go wrong using one.
In the end we buy what makes us feel good.

 

[crazyoildude]

i got around 400,000 out of our shop car 1983 oldsmobile custom cruiser 307 v8 it only saw dino pyb 10w40 since 1990 and ran good when i got rid of it

 

[Hootbro]

This guy got 1.2 million miles out of a vehicle just using cheap dino Valvoline 10W-40 with 10K-20K OCI's.

http://www.millionmilevan.com/

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
This guy got 1.2 million miles out of a vehicle just using cheap dino Valvoline 10W-40 with 10K-20K OCI's.

http://www.millionmilevan.com/


Yep and it was consuming a quart every tank of gas he probably never needed to change it at that point. Some people complain about a quart every 1-2k but a tank of gas was probably less than 500 miles for him.

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: tig1
All engines stayed clean, oil consumption stayed the same for the life of the vehicle, and no engines ever showed signs of engine wear or ring coking.


Without doubt, there are many gasoline engines out there running on nothing but cheap conventional products from day one -- few engines actually dictate the usage of synthetic oils (such as the 1.8T VW, Saab Turbo, 1MZ-FE Toyota, Honda VCM, etc.) to rack up high mileage without self-destructing.

With that said, it's a quality of life issue, and gasoline engines ran solely on top-tier synthetics (such as Mobil 1) inevitably exhibit the qualities mentioned by Tig. The same thing cannot be said, in my experience, of engines ran solely on conventional.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
This guy got 1.2 million miles out of a vehicle just using cheap dino Valvoline 10W-40 with 10K-20K OCI's.

http://www.millionmilevan.com/


Yep and it was consuming a quart every tank of gas he probably never needed to change it at that point. Some people complain about a quart every 1-2k but a tank of gas was probably less than 500 miles for him.


High mileage Taxi's in Western Australia easily go over 750000 kms with regular oil changes as the engine is always warm and fluids at optimum operating conditions.

IMO dino or synthetic oil is less important than the OCI, following OEM maintenance regime if operating conditions are extreme, driving vehicle as intended.

 

[GaleHawkins]

Originally Posted By: virginoil


High mileage Taxi's in Western Australia easily go over 750000 kms with regular oil changes as the engine is always warm and fluids at optimum operating conditions.

IMO dino or synthetic oil is less important than the OCI, following OEM maintenance regime if operating conditions are extreme, driving vehicle as intended.


I expect most will agree with that statement. I bought an old 1998 S-10 Chevy PU with 524,000 miles on it that still ran well. It had only seen dino but they changed it regularly the guy said that drove it the last 300K miles. It was a project truck for the son and we did put another engine and transmission in it. In hind sight because of the miles and having been parked for a while we should have just rebuilt the engine.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Just sold an 04 Savana 3500 with half a million miles on it. Ran great, got top dollar for it too. Synthetic by the OLM but no particular brand, just whatever was on sale.

Across 40+ years of happy motoring and a ton of cars from sunbirds to corvettes, lexii, Mercs, Bmw's, etc., we have seen nothing to indicate that synthetic automatically makes an engine last longer.

As stated previously, there are many variables beyond simply oil selection, and even cheaper dino these days is pretty darn robust!

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
In the 1950s in New Zealand I saw a number of Morris Oxford Taxis (B Series BMC engines) cover well over 300k miles on SAE20W-20 Castrol Castrolite or 10W-30 Mobiloil lubricants. They were sold off without ever having been touched except for tappet adjustments. The engines were clean.

If the Manufacturer specifies a synthetic then you'd better believe that they know what they're doing

Personally and since the early 1970's I've always used synthetics but at the maximum OCI possible!

As for a longevity variance, well there are simply too many variables involved for conclusive answers here. Some Manufacturers do have the answers - but that's another story - and that's why I use synthetics!

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Some Manufacturers do have the answers - but that's another story - and that's why I use synthetics!


There's a lot said reading between the lines of that statement.

I'm glad I'm using synthetic oil, for the difference of upfront costs it doesn't pay not to for me.

 

[dnewton3]

Equipment longevity (engines, trannies, gear boxes, sewing machines, firearms, etc) is not a function of what lube is used. It is a function of the overall maintenance program.

If you used dino oil too long, such that the ability of the fluid to adequately perform its function is compromised, the result will be undesirably altered equipment lifecycle. If you use synthetics too long, such that the ability of the fluid to adequately perform its function is compromised, the result will be undesirably altered equipment lifecycle. If you use either a dino or syn, within the limits of each fluid's capability, then the lifecycle of the equipment will not be adversly effected.


This is, withou any doubt in my mind, where 99.99999999% of folks (including most BITOGers) fail to understand the nature of the topic.


Equipment longevity is a function of the overall maintenace program. Fluid selection is but one of many critera to be considered; others includ severity of use, ease of product attainment, cost of products, capability of products, unique equipment considerations (prone to failure? in what way?), etc, etc.

The proper way to maintain any piece of equipment is to set in mind a level of desired performance, and then manage the maintenance of the overall program to sustain that level. In the case of fluids and filters, we look to condemnation limits in UOAs, particle counts, physical obervations, etc.


If you said to me that your engine died because dino oil allowed it to sludge up or grind to a halt, I'd have to say you're an idiot. It is not the fault of the lube; it is your fault for not adequately managing the maintenance program. Period. No fluid changes itself. If your equipment fails, it's because you didn't match your action plan to your products used.


Premium products (in this case, fluids and even filters) should be judged based upon what level of service they can maintain, relative to the duration of time they can provide that service. This is about ROI of the product and nothing more.


Read my signature line. Then re-read it. Then read it yet again. Read it until you "get it" ...

 

[Bud]

Its really just personal preference. For me since I paid 40K for my truck and want to drive it for many years, I use what I consider the best of whatever I can buy when I service it. The difference between top tier Dino and Synthetic is not much in additional cost since I do my own oil changes. Will my truck last any longer than a person's truck running Dino. Doubt it, but it just makes me feel better using Synthetic.

 

[GaleHawkins]

Originally Posted By: Bud
Its really just personal preference. For me since I paid 40K for my truck and want to drive it for many years, I use what I consider the best of whatever I can buy when I service it. The difference between top tier Dino and Synthetic is not much in additional cost since I do my own oil changes. Will my truck last any longer than a person's truck running Dino. Doubt it, but it just makes me feel better using Synthetic.


Bingo.

I know some are not able to grasp this fact of life today.

The $1+ a quart more for synthetic makes me fill better too today but back when Dino was $1 or less a quart and Synthetic was $5+ a quart there was no way synthetic oil was of interest to me. Today the engines we change around the place get synthetic. The stuff that goes to a Quick Lube gets house brand dino every 3K to 6K with 3K being the goal. Our 2002 Blazer is our highest mileage daily driver with over 200K miles and I try to change before it goes a quart low which is around 3-4K miles after 12 years of dino usage and that being house brand 10w-40 for the six years we have owned it.

If I was not physically limited due to arthritis I would change everything like I did at one time. Without a lift the tractors, farm truck, old motor home (with Fumoto drain valve) and the many same engines are still easier to do on the place and they get Rotella T6 5w-40 synthetic currently so we only have one motor oil to stock and top off any of our many old engines.

Any clean motor oil/filter combo meeting manual specs is good as it gets for an engine. There is no current dino motor oil that does not have synthetic level of add packs, etc as far as I have read.

Actually the Dino vs Synthetic discussion is at the point of the non-detergent vs high detergent discussions.

The move to organic nano lube technology is the ONLY thing I know that is worth discussing when in comes to drive train lubes. Talking dino vs synthetic is nothing more than talking politics.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Some Manufacturers do have the answers - but that's another story - and that's why I use synthetics!


Considering the qualifications of the source, this nugget of information should end the dino v synthetic debate right here. But it will perpetuated by those who know much less but talk much more as has already happened in this thread following Doug Hillary's post.

 

[Gabe]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: tig1
All engines stayed clean, oil consumption stayed the same for the life of the vehicle, and no engines ever showed signs of engine wear or ring coking.


Without doubt, there are many gasoline engines out there running on nothing but cheap conventional products from day one -- few engines actually dictate the usage of synthetic oils (such as the 1.8T VW, Saab Turbo, 1MZ-FE Toyota, Honda VCM, etc.) to rack up high mileage without self-destructing.

With that said, it's a quality of life issue, and gasoline engines ran solely on top-tier synthetics (such as Mobil 1) inevitably exhibit the qualities mentioned by Tig. The same thing cannot be said, in my experience, of engines ran solely on conventional.


Great post.

 

[fdcg27]

I've driven a few cars past 200K still running well and not consuming oil.
We've had a number of engines pass 150K in the same condition.
It isn't the oil, it's how you maintain the thing overall that brings either long and reliable life or early failure.
There is no clear distiction between oils labeled as synthetic and those labeled as blends or conventional.
Even very inexpensive oils use a blend of basestocks and even very inexpensive oils have a stout add pack, as long as they meet some reasonably current spec, API or any other.
Grp III prices have been falling for some time and GTL Grp III in particular appears to be really cheap, judging by the products it's showing up in.
The labeling of Grp III based oils as "synthetic" was once considered heretical here. There are now oils labeled as conventional that appear to use a significant proportion of Grp III base. There are oils labeled as blends that may well be mainly Grp III.
I once believed that I was treating my engines well by using only synthetic oil in them.
I now use sythetic only because it can be bought so cheaply on clearance or with MIR or BOGO, or because the OM effectively requires one, as with the '12 Accord, since 0W-20s not labeled as syns are not too common, although a few exist labeled as blends, which may not really be blends in any meaningful sense.
No oil or filter can extend engine life or even preserve engine performance over that life.
Only good maintenance and driving practices can do that.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Originally Posted By: Bud
Its really just personal preference. For me since I paid 40K for my truck and want to drive it for many years, I use what I consider the best of whatever I can buy when I service it. The difference between top tier Dino and Synthetic is not much in additional cost since I do my own oil changes. Will my truck last any longer than a person's truck running Dino. Doubt it, but it just makes me feel better using Synthetic.


Bingo.

I know some are not able to grasp this fact of life today.

The $1+ a quart more for synthetic makes me fill better too


Now, what is the this fact of life today?
Feelings more important than facts?

 

[GaleHawkins]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Originally Posted By: Bud
Its really just personal preference. For me since I paid 40K for my truck and want to drive it for many years, I use what I consider the best of whatever I can buy when I service it. The difference between top tier Dino and Synthetic is not much in additional cost since I do my own oil changes. Will my truck last any longer than a person's truck running Dino. Doubt it, but it just makes me feel better using Synthetic.


Bingo.

I know some are not able to grasp this fact of life today.

The $1+ a quart more for synthetic makes me fill better too


Now, what is the this fact of life today?
Feelings more important than facts?


Yes.

The fact is for example all SN labeled motor oil of the same weight are functionally equal.

The fact is one's choice in motor oil today is only an emotional decision.

From one of the best websites about motor oil.