I am not a member of Consumer Reports. Is the tire comparison available anywhere without becoming a member? It might be better than throwing insults back and forth over what's a good source and what isn't.
Cooper CS4 or Michelin Primacy MXV4
- Thread starter cchase
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I believe that CR has stated that their "Test Vehicles"(not the tires) are run for about 15K-16K miles with an employee signout sheet. Which tires are on their vehicles at that time; who knows?
Employees signout a vehicle to take home, shopping/hardware store, weekends, family vacations, allow the spouce to drive the vehicle, pack in the kids and all of their stuff etc. There is a LOG BOOK in every vehicle and comments are suggested/recomended.
I read CR all the time. I don't take everything that's printed as gospel, just another guideline for making purchaces. I still like other opinions too!
Employees signout a vehicle to take home, shopping/hardware store, weekends, family vacations, allow the spouce to drive the vehicle, pack in the kids and all of their stuff etc. There is a LOG BOOK in every vehicle and comments are suggested/recomended.
I read CR all the time. I don't take everything that's printed as gospel, just another guideline for making purchaces. I still like other opinions too!
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Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
What sheeple reads CR anyways?
Gee, so you trust subjective user reviews (with many uncontrollable variables) over a lab's controlled testing?
Actually, I believe in good old fashion research, now that you ask.
Even though I knew I was going to take a bashing anyways, I'm not a big fan of mags in general. The info tends to be okay, but no matter what you read, the bias are there...
I tend to trust you guys more...
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
What sheeple reads CR anyways?
Gee, so you trust subjective user reviews (with many uncontrollable variables) over a lab's controlled testing?
Actually, I believe in good old fashion research, now that you ask.
Even though I knew I was going to take a bashing anyways, I'm not a big fan of mags in general. The info tends to be okay, but no matter what you read, the bias are there...
I tend to trust you guys more...
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Originally Posted By: Char Baby
I believe that CR has stated that their "Test Vehicles"(not the tires) are run for about 15K-16K miles with an employee signout sheet. Which tires are on their vehicles at that time; who knows?
Employees signout a vehicle to take home, shopping/hardware store, weekends, family vacations, allow the spouce to drive the vehicle, pack in the kids and all of their stuff etc. There is a LOG BOOK in every vehicle and comments are suggested/recomended.
I read CR all the time. I don't take everything that's printed as gospel, just another guideline for making purchaces. I still like other opinions too!
Which is fine. Just don't take my comment to heart. I sadly know quite a few people who only buy what CR recommends, and nothing else. One that will never get out of the bubble might never fine the other stuff out there, which might even be better than what they have now.
It tends to really annoy me about tires only beacuse it will be different for everyone. Different conditions, weight of cars, usage, and so on. What works for one often will not work for another.
That being said, I highly respect the opinions of people here, with the insight and info they bring..like yourself.
I believe that CR has stated that their "Test Vehicles"(not the tires) are run for about 15K-16K miles with an employee signout sheet. Which tires are on their vehicles at that time; who knows?
Employees signout a vehicle to take home, shopping/hardware store, weekends, family vacations, allow the spouce to drive the vehicle, pack in the kids and all of their stuff etc. There is a LOG BOOK in every vehicle and comments are suggested/recomended.
I read CR all the time. I don't take everything that's printed as gospel, just another guideline for making purchaces. I still like other opinions too!
Which is fine. Just don't take my comment to heart. I sadly know quite a few people who only buy what CR recommends, and nothing else. One that will never get out of the bubble might never fine the other stuff out there, which might even be better than what they have now.
It tends to really annoy me about tires only beacuse it will be different for everyone. Different conditions, weight of cars, usage, and so on. What works for one often will not work for another.
That being said, I highly respect the opinions of people here, with the insight and info they bring..like yourself.
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Actually, I believe in good old fashion research, now that you ask.
Even though I knew I was going to take a bashings anyways, I'm not a big fan of mags in general. The info tends to be okay, but no matter what you read, the bias are there...
Your statements do not make any sense.
"Good old fashioned research" is not without its bias either. Without knowing all of the variables that existed, there is no way you can arrive at an accurate conclusion. If you are trying to show your unfounded hatred for CR (or any other established source), then you need to find a better excuse. I can possibly understand your disapproval towards tirerack's testing since they do sell tires, but CR does not sell any tires.
Also, what makes you think that individual reviews do not have bias? If someone spends serious $$$ on a product, you can bet that they are likely to give that product the benefit of the doubt.
Actually, I believe in good old fashion research, now that you ask.
Even though I knew I was going to take a bashings anyways, I'm not a big fan of mags in general. The info tends to be okay, but no matter what you read, the bias are there...
Your statements do not make any sense.
"Good old fashioned research" is not without its bias either. Without knowing all of the variables that existed, there is no way you can arrive at an accurate conclusion. If you are trying to show your unfounded hatred for CR (or any other established source), then you need to find a better excuse. I can possibly understand your disapproval towards tirerack's testing since they do sell tires, but CR does not sell any tires.
Also, what makes you think that individual reviews do not have bias? If someone spends serious $$$ on a product, you can bet that they are likely to give that product the benefit of the doubt.
I'd like a simple, unbiased test result.
The UTQG goes a little ways with treadwear which at least gives you a relative sense of how long the tire may last but certainly leaves a lot to the imagination.
What I'd like to see with these two tires is,
- how many miles they will last (on any control vehicle with reasonable alignment settings)
- a distance measurement for a 70 to 0 mph panic stop on dry pavement
- a distance measurement for a 70 to 0 mph panic stop on equally wet pavement
- a distance measurement for a 30 to 0 mph panic stop on snow-covered pavement
- a lateral acceleration measurement for a standard skidpad on dry pavement
- a lateral acceleration measurement for a standard skidpad on wet pavement
- a rolling resistance measurement
It seems to me that actually running these tests and publishing the results would not be that difficult for a publication (or even someone like Tire Rack).
At least armed with that information, the only variables left are how evenly the tread wears in real use, how well the tire balances as the tread wears down, and any issues with premature dry rot or notable traction issues as treadwear progresses.
The UTQG goes a little ways with treadwear which at least gives you a relative sense of how long the tire may last but certainly leaves a lot to the imagination.
What I'd like to see with these two tires is,
- how many miles they will last (on any control vehicle with reasonable alignment settings)
- a distance measurement for a 70 to 0 mph panic stop on dry pavement
- a distance measurement for a 70 to 0 mph panic stop on equally wet pavement
- a distance measurement for a 30 to 0 mph panic stop on snow-covered pavement
- a lateral acceleration measurement for a standard skidpad on dry pavement
- a lateral acceleration measurement for a standard skidpad on wet pavement
- a rolling resistance measurement
It seems to me that actually running these tests and publishing the results would not be that difficult for a publication (or even someone like Tire Rack).
At least armed with that information, the only variables left are how evenly the tread wears in real use, how well the tire balances as the tread wears down, and any issues with premature dry rot or notable traction issues as treadwear progresses.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Actually, I believe in good old fashion research, now that you ask.
Even though I knew I was going to take a bashings anyways, I'm not a big fan of mags in general. The info tends to be okay, but no matter what you read, the bias are there...
Your statements do not make any sense.
"Good old fashioned research" is not without its bias either. Without knowing all of the variables that existed, there is no way you can arrive at an accurate conclusion. If you are trying to show your unfounded hatred for CR (or any other established source), then you need to find a better excuse. I can possibly understand your disapproval towards tirerack's testing since they do sell tires, but CR does not sell any tires.
Also, what makes you think that individual reviews do not have bias? If someone spends serious $$$ on a product, you can bet that they are likely to give that product the benefit of the doubt.
Best way I can put it- "best overall view". A little big of everything, if you will. Like if I were going to buy a set a set of CS4s, for example. I'd check Cooper's website, check around for reviews(yes, even CR), talk to the local tire dealers, talk to people who have them on currently, even hit the different websites (like here, or my cavalier site if I were buying them for mine) So I'd have as much info on hand as I could. That's all.
And I don't hate CR (Believe it or not, I've used it too) or the mags. I just don't believe in what I call "one stop shopping"-hence the sheeple comment. Could be just me, but I like to make my shopping a little more personal than that...
Sorry for the confusion-guess I should have explained myself better...
Not sure about the TR comment though. I find their website uite useful..
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Actually, I believe in good old fashion research, now that you ask.
Even though I knew I was going to take a bashings anyways, I'm not a big fan of mags in general. The info tends to be okay, but no matter what you read, the bias are there...
Your statements do not make any sense.
"Good old fashioned research" is not without its bias either. Without knowing all of the variables that existed, there is no way you can arrive at an accurate conclusion. If you are trying to show your unfounded hatred for CR (or any other established source), then you need to find a better excuse. I can possibly understand your disapproval towards tirerack's testing since they do sell tires, but CR does not sell any tires.
Also, what makes you think that individual reviews do not have bias? If someone spends serious $$$ on a product, you can bet that they are likely to give that product the benefit of the doubt.
Best way I can put it- "best overall view". A little big of everything, if you will. Like if I were going to buy a set a set of CS4s, for example. I'd check Cooper's website, check around for reviews(yes, even CR), talk to the local tire dealers, talk to people who have them on currently, even hit the different websites (like here, or my cavalier site if I were buying them for mine) So I'd have as much info on hand as I could. That's all.
And I don't hate CR (Believe it or not, I've used it too) or the mags. I just don't believe in what I call "one stop shopping"-hence the sheeple comment. Could be just me, but I like to make my shopping a little more personal than that...
Sorry for the confusion-guess I should have explained myself better...
Not sure about the TR comment though. I find their website uite useful..
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Not sure about the TR comment though. I find their website uite useful..
I don't want to speak FOR The Critic, but Tire Rack does sell tires, they do likely have different margins on different tires, and would stand to benefit if certain tires perform better than others in testing. I'm not saying they do "influence" their test results. In fact, I'm probably sure they do not.
Still, Consumer Reports does not sell tires, so it seems like they would have little motive to report other than the straight-up results they do get. Most of the time, the results they get in their tire testing correlate well with results that other resources get.
Not sure about the TR comment though. I find their website uite useful..
I don't want to speak FOR The Critic, but Tire Rack does sell tires, they do likely have different margins on different tires, and would stand to benefit if certain tires perform better than others in testing. I'm not saying they do "influence" their test results. In fact, I'm probably sure they do not.
Still, Consumer Reports does not sell tires, so it seems like they would have little motive to report other than the straight-up results they do get. Most of the time, the results they get in their tire testing correlate well with results that other resources get.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I have a set of aftermarket Primacy MXV4 on my Prius and they have deliver phenomenal wet traction, but have resulted in a fuel economy loss of about 8% compared to the original tires.
I would highly recommend them.
when did you get the michelins and have you run both during the same season. 8% seems excessive..
but I lost 20% from summer to winter driving
also if they replaced worn out tires you may be going as much as 3% farther per revolution vs worn out oem tires.
I have a set of aftermarket Primacy MXV4 on my Prius and they have deliver phenomenal wet traction, but have resulted in a fuel economy loss of about 8% compared to the original tires.
I would highly recommend them.
when did you get the michelins and have you run both during the same season. 8% seems excessive..
but I lost 20% from summer to winter driving
also if they replaced worn out tires you may be going as much as 3% farther per revolution vs worn out oem tires.
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Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I have a set of aftermarket Primacy MXV4 on my Prius and they have deliver phenomenal wet traction, but have resulted in a fuel economy loss of about 8% compared to the original tires.
I would highly recommend them.
when did you get the michelins and have you run both during the same season. 8% seems excessive..
but I lost 20% from summer to winter driving
also if they replaced worn out tires you may be going as much as 3% farther per revolution vs worn out oem tires.
One of my friends from Priuschat drove down to Southern CA with me last weekend to pick up his 2012 Prius from a site sponsor.
Him and I made the same trip back up north. Only difference was he had the OE Yokohama Avid S33d tires-- which were the exact ones I had.
He averaged about 47, while I was at 43-44.
The LRR attribute is more beneficial on hybrids and other slightly underpowered vehicles.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I have a set of aftermarket Primacy MXV4 on my Prius and they have deliver phenomenal wet traction, but have resulted in a fuel economy loss of about 8% compared to the original tires.
I would highly recommend them.
when did you get the michelins and have you run both during the same season. 8% seems excessive..
but I lost 20% from summer to winter driving
also if they replaced worn out tires you may be going as much as 3% farther per revolution vs worn out oem tires.
One of my friends from Priuschat drove down to Southern CA with me last weekend to pick up his 2012 Prius from a site sponsor.
Him and I made the same trip back up north. Only difference was he had the OE Yokohama Avid S33d tires-- which were the exact ones I had.
He averaged about 47, while I was at 43-44.
The LRR attribute is more beneficial on hybrids and other slightly underpowered vehicles.
I think Michelin makes good tires although a little overpriced. But about every Michelin tire I've seen is firmer than necessary and transmits a lot of energy into the car. This besides the steep pricing is what keeps me from pulling the trigger on a set of Primacys.
I've had Michelins and replaced them with "lower rated" Goodyears and they did everything the Michelins did or better as far as traction and handling while riding quieter and more compliantly.
With that in mind, I can see how someone could be happy with a "lower rated" tire like a CS4 vs Primacy. I guess I'll just have to try a set of Primacys on my car for a period of time to decide if the tires are too firm or not and worth the price.You certainly have to take TR, CR and consumer's reporting with a grain of sand.
I've had Michelins and replaced them with "lower rated" Goodyears and they did everything the Michelins did or better as far as traction and handling while riding quieter and more compliantly.
With that in mind, I can see how someone could be happy with a "lower rated" tire like a CS4 vs Primacy. I guess I'll just have to try a set of Primacys on my car for a period of time to decide if the tires are too firm or not and worth the price.You certainly have to take TR, CR and consumer's reporting with a grain of sand.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I think Michelin makes good tires although a little overpriced. But about every Michelin tire I've seen is firmer than necessary and transmits a lot of energy into the car. This besides the steep pricing is what keeps me from pulling the trigger on a set of Primacys.
This is what I like about them. Michelin tires generally offer me the exact ride/handling compromise I'm looking for. There are certainly other tires that will ride softer. But the tradeoff is inevitably poorer steering response or softer handling. Softer sidewalls often promote a good ride, but that compromise is still there. It may or may not be perceived depending on how hard the car is driven or depending on the types of roads in the area, but it is there.
There are tangible reasons why I prefer Michelins, including this ride/handling balance, the fact that they often require little or even no weight to balance properly, etc. But there are also some cosmetic reasons why I prefer them, and this type of stuff generally goes unnoticed to most. The sidewalls seem to have a slight "metallic shine" to them. Most tires have dull (or "flat") sidewalls, but Michelins look like they have a sheen to them that almost "pops" in sunlight. The tread itself also seems very durable...not in terms of miles achieved, but in terms of not chunking out or looking ragged after many miles. I've owned a number of sets of tires where the rubber either chunked out or started looking jagged and "torn" on the corners of the tread blocks. The Michelin rubber seems to stay more pliable over the life of the tire.
Like I said earlier, most people don't even notice those types of things, so I rarely bring them up, and never use them as a basis to recommend the brand to someone. But to me, tires are just like vehicles in that different brands have their own design personalities and behaviors. After a while, you tend to start prefering whichever brand that strikes most of your chords.
I think Michelin makes good tires although a little overpriced. But about every Michelin tire I've seen is firmer than necessary and transmits a lot of energy into the car. This besides the steep pricing is what keeps me from pulling the trigger on a set of Primacys.
This is what I like about them. Michelin tires generally offer me the exact ride/handling compromise I'm looking for. There are certainly other tires that will ride softer. But the tradeoff is inevitably poorer steering response or softer handling. Softer sidewalls often promote a good ride, but that compromise is still there. It may or may not be perceived depending on how hard the car is driven or depending on the types of roads in the area, but it is there.
There are tangible reasons why I prefer Michelins, including this ride/handling balance, the fact that they often require little or even no weight to balance properly, etc. But there are also some cosmetic reasons why I prefer them, and this type of stuff generally goes unnoticed to most. The sidewalls seem to have a slight "metallic shine" to them. Most tires have dull (or "flat") sidewalls, but Michelins look like they have a sheen to them that almost "pops" in sunlight. The tread itself also seems very durable...not in terms of miles achieved, but in terms of not chunking out or looking ragged after many miles. I've owned a number of sets of tires where the rubber either chunked out or started looking jagged and "torn" on the corners of the tread blocks. The Michelin rubber seems to stay more pliable over the life of the tire.
Like I said earlier, most people don't even notice those types of things, so I rarely bring them up, and never use them as a basis to recommend the brand to someone. But to me, tires are just like vehicles in that different brands have their own design personalities and behaviors. After a while, you tend to start prefering whichever brand that strikes most of your chords.
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I have a set of aftermarket Primacy MXV4 on my Prius and they have deliver phenomenal wet traction, but have resulted in a fuel economy loss of about 8% compared to the original tires.
I would highly recommend them.
when did you get the michelins and have you run both during the same season. 8% seems excessive..
but I lost 20% from summer to winter driving
also if they replaced worn out tires you may be going as much as 3% farther per revolution vs worn out oem tires.
Have you seen the tires that come stock on the Prius? Skateboard tires probably don't roll as well. I suspect that's the difference.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I have a set of aftermarket Primacy MXV4 on my Prius and they have deliver phenomenal wet traction, but have resulted in a fuel economy loss of about 8% compared to the original tires.
I would highly recommend them.
when did you get the michelins and have you run both during the same season. 8% seems excessive..
but I lost 20% from summer to winter driving
also if they replaced worn out tires you may be going as much as 3% farther per revolution vs worn out oem tires.
Have you seen the tires that come stock on the Prius? Skateboard tires probably don't roll as well. I suspect that's the difference.
I bought CS4s for my Mazda 3 last year. They are very quiet and perform well in rain. I have dedicated snow tires, so snow performance is unknown to me.
One thing that I don't like about them is their "mushiness". Even though they are H rated, they are much softer than OEM Toyos they replaced. They're probably geared more towards CUV's and minivans than small compacts.
One thing that I don't like about them is their "mushiness". Even though they are H rated, they are much softer than OEM Toyos they replaced. They're probably geared more towards CUV's and minivans than small compacts.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I think Michelin makes good tires although a little overpriced. But about every Michelin tire I've seen is firmer than necessary and transmits a lot of energy into the car. This besides the steep pricing is what keeps me from pulling the trigger on a set of Primacys.
This is what I like about them. Michelin tires generally offer me the exact ride/handling compromise I'm looking for. There are certainly other tires that will ride softer. But the tradeoff is inevitably poorer steering response or softer handling. Softer sidewalls often promote a good ride, but that compromise is still there. It may or may not be perceived depending on how hard the car is driven or depending on the types of roads in the area, but it is there.
But you are missing my point that other tires handled, steered and gripped as good while giving a more compliant, quiter ride and didn't jar and rattle the car structure and occupants. Besides, if a person wants sport car or ultra HP tires there is some expectation of a stiffer tire and noiser, harsher ride. But if you are buying say a Primacy for your 4 door sedan you generally do not have that expectation or want a stiffer, noiser riding tire. You are more likely to be willing to give up a little steering sharpness for noticable gains in ride comfort and quietness.
I don't believe a good gripping, steering and handling tire requires an especially hard tire. Likewise I don't believe good handling requires stiff suspension and steering as some European models have. It can be counterproductive on the commonly rough real world American roads. The art and skill is in not giving up much tire grip and handling while still riding compliantly and quietly. I think other tire brands do a better job of this than Michelin typically does.
I have noticed the differing appearance of most Michelin and like I said I think they are decent quality, but they do seem to dry rot and crack and age about like any other premium tire overall. And they still tend to be pricy. Bottom line is I'm not completely sold.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I think Michelin makes good tires although a little overpriced. But about every Michelin tire I've seen is firmer than necessary and transmits a lot of energy into the car. This besides the steep pricing is what keeps me from pulling the trigger on a set of Primacys.
This is what I like about them. Michelin tires generally offer me the exact ride/handling compromise I'm looking for. There are certainly other tires that will ride softer. But the tradeoff is inevitably poorer steering response or softer handling. Softer sidewalls often promote a good ride, but that compromise is still there. It may or may not be perceived depending on how hard the car is driven or depending on the types of roads in the area, but it is there.
But you are missing my point that other tires handled, steered and gripped as good while giving a more compliant, quiter ride and didn't jar and rattle the car structure and occupants. Besides, if a person wants sport car or ultra HP tires there is some expectation of a stiffer tire and noiser, harsher ride. But if you are buying say a Primacy for your 4 door sedan you generally do not have that expectation or want a stiffer, noiser riding tire. You are more likely to be willing to give up a little steering sharpness for noticable gains in ride comfort and quietness.
I don't believe a good gripping, steering and handling tire requires an especially hard tire. Likewise I don't believe good handling requires stiff suspension and steering as some European models have. It can be counterproductive on the commonly rough real world American roads. The art and skill is in not giving up much tire grip and handling while still riding compliantly and quietly. I think other tire brands do a better job of this than Michelin typically does.
I have noticed the differing appearance of most Michelin and like I said I think they are decent quality, but they do seem to dry rot and crack and age about like any other premium tire overall. And they still tend to be pricy. Bottom line is I'm not completely sold.
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Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I have a set of aftermarket Primacy MXV4 on my Prius and they have deliver phenomenal wet traction, but have resulted in a fuel economy loss of about 8% compared to the original tires.
I would highly recommend them.
when did you get the michelins and have you run both during the same season. 8% seems excessive..
but I lost 20% from summer to winter driving
also if they replaced worn out tires you may be going as much as 3% farther per revolution vs worn out oem tires.
Have you seen the tires that come stock on the Prius? Skateboard tires probably don't roll as well. I suspect that's the difference.
Yes...the Prius takes the typical OEM glazed-donut to a new level! IIRC, they are GY Integritys...chosen solely for low rolling resistance and to wear like iron.
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I have a set of aftermarket Primacy MXV4 on my Prius and they have deliver phenomenal wet traction, but have resulted in a fuel economy loss of about 8% compared to the original tires.
I would highly recommend them.
when did you get the michelins and have you run both during the same season. 8% seems excessive..
but I lost 20% from summer to winter driving
also if they replaced worn out tires you may be going as much as 3% farther per revolution vs worn out oem tires.
Have you seen the tires that come stock on the Prius? Skateboard tires probably don't roll as well. I suspect that's the difference.
Yes...the Prius takes the typical OEM glazed-donut to a new level! IIRC, they are GY Integritys...chosen solely for low rolling resistance and to wear like iron.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
But you are missing my point that other tires handled, steered and gripped as good while giving a more compliant, quiter ride and didn't jar and rattle the car structure and occupants. Besides, if a person wants sport car or ultra HP tires there is some expectation of a stiffer tire and noiser, harsher ride. But if you are buying say a Primacy for your 4 door sedan you generally do not have that expectation or want a stiffer, noiser riding tire. You are more likely to be willing to give up a little steering sharpness for noticable gains in ride comfort and quietness.
The Primacy MXV4 is a performance touring tire. It was marketed towards the sportier segment.
It is clear that you do not enjoy suspensions that deliver lots of feedback-- or road feel. Unfortunately many of us do. Perhaps your needs are better suited by a standard touring tire, and not one that is performance oriented.
But you are missing my point that other tires handled, steered and gripped as good while giving a more compliant, quiter ride and didn't jar and rattle the car structure and occupants. Besides, if a person wants sport car or ultra HP tires there is some expectation of a stiffer tire and noiser, harsher ride. But if you are buying say a Primacy for your 4 door sedan you generally do not have that expectation or want a stiffer, noiser riding tire. You are more likely to be willing to give up a little steering sharpness for noticable gains in ride comfort and quietness.
The Primacy MXV4 is a performance touring tire. It was marketed towards the sportier segment.
It is clear that you do not enjoy suspensions that deliver lots of feedback-- or road feel. Unfortunately many of us do. Perhaps your needs are better suited by a standard touring tire, and not one that is performance oriented.
Originally Posted By: cchase
Have you seen the tires that come stock on the Prius? Skateboard tires probably don't roll as well. I suspect that's the difference.
Not true, most mainstream cars come equipped with very LRR tires from the factory. This plays a huge impact on their ability to reach EPA fuel economy estimates.
My suspicion is that low-powered cars are far more reliant on LRR tires than their more powerful counterparts. Since these cars barely have enough power to begin with, they need all the help they can get with coasting and less unsprung weight. That is why changing from a LRR to a non-LRR tire can have a significant impact in fuel economy on a Prius-- or any low powered vehicle IMO.
Have you seen the tires that come stock on the Prius? Skateboard tires probably don't roll as well. I suspect that's the difference.
Not true, most mainstream cars come equipped with very LRR tires from the factory. This plays a huge impact on their ability to reach EPA fuel economy estimates.
My suspicion is that low-powered cars are far more reliant on LRR tires than their more powerful counterparts. Since these cars barely have enough power to begin with, they need all the help they can get with coasting and less unsprung weight. That is why changing from a LRR to a non-LRR tire can have a significant impact in fuel economy on a Prius-- or any low powered vehicle IMO.
Originally Posted By: cchase
It's too bad TR does not sell Cooper tires
TR used to sell Cooper's private label tires with Cooper's Avon brand on them, but TR no longer does so. Cooper may want to protect their independent tire dealers who sell most of the Cooper tires.
It's too bad TR does not sell Cooper tires
TR used to sell Cooper's private label tires with Cooper's Avon brand on them, but TR no longer does so. Cooper may want to protect their independent tire dealers who sell most of the Cooper tires.
Nothing to add except I strayed once from using Cooper tires and regretted it. I am back using them; I believe I got 60-65K on my lifeliner IIs a bit back; now running CS4 and like them a lot.
Unfair characterization of Michelin, but I always think a lot of my $$ would be going to other things rather than tire devl/mfg.
Unfair characterization of Michelin, but I always think a lot of my $$ would be going to other things rather than tire devl/mfg.
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