China buying Pirelli

[fredfactory]

Originally Posted By: QuOk
Another decent tire maker I can't buy from any longer.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/22/us-pirelli-chemchina-idUSKBN0MI0PQ20150322


It is how China can get technology secrets the west has developed. Chinese engineers will take a few years to learn the tech here, and then just move everything to China eventually. Bye-Bye industry in the west.

 

[jrmason]

OK, a little off topic here but some quick facts some may find interesting.

Deutz was the first to incorporate fuel injection into an engine, with Clessie Cummins improving upon the design on his early diesel engines in 1921. He built his first direct injection engine in 1924. Clessie experimented for many years with various fuel injection systems and patented the common rail injection system in 1939. He also developed and held the first patents for the exhaust brake along with his son many years later after the fallout with The Irwin family (the owner of Cummins engine company).
For those who find automotive history intriguing I highly recommend buying and reading "The Diesel Odyssey of Clessie Cummins". It was written by his son Lyle and is a fantastic inside look into one of the greatest pioneers in automotive history.

Getting back on subject, any tire that is manufactured for passenger use has to conform to The Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG). It isn't going to make a quality tire any worse or a low end tire any better being manufactured in China. Many of our beloved brands have been manufactured out of country for many years. Unfortunate, but certainly nothing new.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: edyvw




European unemployment rate is higher then in the U.S. However, average worker in Germany and many other countries has much better benefits then worker in the U.S. with higher wages. Those that are unemployed do not have to worry about medical bills and student loans, and guess what? They still have metal industry that did not need bailout.


So you would be happy with the health care system they have in Europe and their tax system?????????????????

 

[fredfactory]

Originally Posted By: jrmason
.
Getting back on subject, any tire that is manufactured for passenger use has to conform to The Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG). It isn't going to make a quality tire any worse or a low end tire any better being manufactured in China. Many of our beloved brands have been manufactured out of country for many years. Unfortunate, but certainly nothing new.


China has little or no factory pollution standards, very low wages to a billion workers, no OSHA to bother with, state owned factories and companies, a dangerous military, censorship and human rights violations, and a reputation for poor quality tires. Whats not to love?
I'm never buying Pirelli now, thats for sure.
You can see where your tires are made on tirerack.com or on the sidewall. Boycott any tires made in 3rd world countries.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: edyvw




European unemployment rate is higher then in the U.S. However, average worker in Germany and many other countries has much better benefits then worker in the U.S. with higher wages. Those that are unemployed do not have to worry about medical bills and student loans, and guess what? They still have metal industry that did not need bailout.

So you would be happy with the health care system they have in Europe and their tax system?????????????????

Their Health care? Absolutely! ALmost all EU countries, except Romania, Bulgaria are ranked higher in health care then the U.S.
I do not mind paying more taxes. Roads in Colorado Springs are on par with Moldavia, and it is cheaper hypothetically to pay more taxes then every year to replace control arms, joint balls, tires, do alignment etc.
In the end, most U.S. businesses are arguing that universal health care would be better for the U.S. businesses then this system and especially one before ACA.
But, that is not going to happen.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: fredfactory
Originally Posted By: jrmason
.
Getting back on subject, any tire that is manufactured for passenger use has to conform to The Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG). It isn't going to make a quality tire any worse or a low end tire any better being manufactured in China. Many of our beloved brands have been manufactured out of country for many years. Unfortunate, but certainly nothing new.


China has little or no factory pollution standards, very low wages to a billion workers, no OSHA to bother with, state owned factories and companies, a dangerous military, censorship and human rights violations, and a reputation for poor quality tires. Whats not to love?
I'm never buying Pirelli now, thats for sure.
You can see where your tires are made on tirerack.com or on the sidewall. Boycott any tires made in 3rd world countries.

That is changing slowly. They are now where we were in 1920's. But they are facing backlash from their own people, so expect changes in next decade when it comes to pollution, standards etc.
Also, like I said before, China did not go through major economic crisis yet. We will see how stable political system is once that happens and it will.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

Their Health care? Absolutely! ALmost all EU countries, except Romania, Bulgaria are ranked higher in health care then the U.S.



BTW, What color was that Kool Aid????????????????

Or was it the smoke from the pot smokers?????????????

 

[jrmason]

Originally Posted By: fredfactory
Originally Posted By: jrmason
.
Getting back on subject, any tire that is manufactured for passenger use has to conform to The Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG). It isn't going to make a quality tire any worse or a low end tire any better being manufactured in China. Many of our beloved brands have been manufactured out of country for many years. Unfortunate, but certainly nothing new.


China has little or no factory pollution standards, very low wages to a billion workers, no OSHA to bother with, state owned factories and companies, a dangerous military, censorship and human rights violations, and a reputation for poor quality tires. Whats not to love?
I'm never buying Pirelli now, thats for sure.
You can see where your tires are made on tirerack.com or on the sidewall. Boycott any tires made in 3rd world countries.


And you think this is anything new? Im not promoting Chinese manufacturing and in general I agree with what your saying, but China is not the only country guilty of the above. It is why they can manufacture and ship goods cheaper than we can manufacture them. You can boycott tires made in China but I'd bet you'd be hard pressed to look around your house and NOT find something that is made in a country with similar standards as China. While I try to buy American, my primary focus is quality. If buying only American products is your one and only criteria for purchasing goods/food, your home, closet, and cupboards should be pretty bare right now. Not to mention you are shorting yourself for potentially owning a better product....not everything built/made here is superior.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: edyvw

Their Health care? Absolutely! ALmost all EU countries, except Romania, Bulgaria are ranked higher in health care then the U.S.



BTW, What color was that Kool Aid????????????????

Or was it the smoke from the pot smokers?????????????


Not sure about color, the name was FACTS.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: edyvw

Their Health care? Absolutely! ALmost all EU countries, except Romania, Bulgaria are ranked higher in health care then the U.S.



BTW, What color was that Kool Aid????????????????

Or was it the smoke from the pot smokers?????????????


Not sure about color, the name was FACTS.


So post links to the "facts".

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: edyvw

Their Health care? Absolutely! ALmost all EU countries, except Romania, Bulgaria are ranked higher in health care then the U.S.



BTW, What color was that Kool Aid????????????????

Or was it the smoke from the pot smokers?????????????


Not sure about color, the name was FACTS.


So great living there? Move!

 

[krzyss]

My experience with "free" health care is Poland is that one must wait a long time, if they are healthy enough, or pay for "not free" healthcare if one wants something fast.

As not perfect as US system is it is not that bad. At least one pays for it once and government run services are never cheap.

Krzys

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: edyvw

Their Health care? Absolutely! ALmost all EU countries, except Romania, Bulgaria are ranked higher in health care then the U.S.



BTW, What color was that Kool Aid????????????????

Or was it the smoke from the pot smokers?????????????


Not sure about color, the name was FACTS.


So great living there? Move!

I found that to be answer to all the problems. Not educated about facts. Oh yeah, let's just pretend like we do not have problems.
And then people are wondering how we came to the point where we are. ccc
As far as facts, there is a thing called Google, be free to use it, it is not that hard.

 

[OVERKILL]

According to the World Health Organization:
http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-hea...health-systems/

The first 50:
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 USA
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland

 

[OVERKILL]

And another (top 11 list):

1. UK
2. Switzerland
3. Sweden
4. Australia
5. Germany
6. Netherlands (tie with Germany)
7. New Zealand
8. Norway (tie with New Zealand)
9. France
10. Canada
11. US

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
And another (top 11 list):

1. UK
2. Switzerland
3. Sweden
4. Australia
5. Germany
6. Netherlands (tie with Germany)
7. New Zealand
8. Norway (tie with New Zealand)
9. France
10. Canada
11. US

This is OECD ranking. WHO takes more countries into consideration.
Still, tells a lot. But then statistics is like a bikini, shows a lot, but hide most important parts.

 

[javacontour]

I would blame China to the extent they let the knock-offs happen.

Simply a different view with respect to IP rights.

Sure, ultimately it's the guys who think it's ok to reverse engineer a BMW out of pot metal and papier-mâché. But unless the government in charge doesn't protect IP rights, they are in essence saying it's OK to make knockoffs.

Originally Posted By: jeffie7
People are always so quick to blame China. Food for thought, almost everything we buy that says made in china on it is done so by an American company that ask China to make X product to X spec for X many cents/dollars per unit.

So much blame is placed on China but what it comes down to is people wanting things as cheap as they can get it and American companies trying to get it done as cheap as possible, both for price point, and for pleasing the board/stock holders.

When given the chance, China puts out good products, Apple products is a great example of the quality that can be found within China.

China is made up of a bunch of people, if someone from China is investing the money into buying Pirelli, chances are they will try to keep the quality up to par because if they have the money to buy out Pirelli, they are not stupid people and know that the world will be looking at them and how their product quality will drop. If that happens, their company will lose value and become a bad investment for the guy/group that bought it.

As far as Chinese companies ripping off car parts and such, I've seen my share of it, it's not done by legit companies, it's normally done in a run down shop by a handful of guys and they do get shut down sooner or later, thing is, they reopen somewhere else and the cycle continues, Blame it on China? or handful of guys that are making tons of money ripping people off? If someone sees a way to make a quick buck, they normally try. Regardless of what country they live in.

Easier to blame China as a whole I guess.

I'm sure in the upcoming years we'll see many reviews of the new Chinese owned tires and how they stack up VS the old ones. It will be cool to see how it plays out.

 

[jcwit]

I found all of those and more, thet are fine I suppose if one wishes to wait for their care. Tell me this, by is it few flock to Europe for health, but many come to Mayo & the Cleveland Clinic for health care?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: jcwit
I found all of those and more, thet are fine I suppose if one wishes to wait for their care. Tell me this, by is it few flock to Europe for health, but many come to Mayo & the Cleveland Clinic for health care?

They come to Mayo and Cleveland. I know bunch of Saudi Kings, Presidents, Prime Ministers.
Problem is they can PAY, and the guy down the street from Cleveland Clinic cannot.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: jcwit
I found all of those and more, thet are fine I suppose if one wishes to wait for their care. Tell me this, by is it few flock to Europe for health, but many come to Mayo & the Cleveland Clinic for health care?

They come to Mayo and Cleveland. I know bunch of Saudi Kings, Presidents, Prime Ministers.
Problem is they can PAY, and the guy down the street from Cleveland Clinic cannot.


The guy down the street My wife's EX, had his heart transplant done at Cleveland Clinic.

He was no one special, just a factory worker.

Heck, I know Amish who go to Mayo.