Castrol GTX 15w50 Zddp content?

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Originally Posted By: weasley

Please name one bike engine that can even peak at 20,000 rpm, let alone "oftenly run over".

Bike engines are a perfect test for bike oils, but car engines put different demands on the oil, as do truck engines and ship engines. High revs does not automatically equate to high stress.


Man, are you kidding?...Please. dont tell me you don't know of any...My cousin's Kawasaky Ninja goes to 22 000rpms and catches 160 km/h in first gear... Oil isn't just oil, high performance bikes' engines are the best test for an engine oil, their oils are really high performance, no car can put so much stress on an oil as a race bike XD
 
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Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
Okay, from the top...

Olefin Co-Polymers (OCPs) are ...

Shear Stability Index (SSI) OCPs ....

The Shellvis VII polymers are ...

At equal SSI ...


Thank you very much Joe90 for taking the time to write such a detailed reply. It has helped me a great deal and cleared up a lot of confusion I had regarding VII's.

A great read.
 
Hi Weasley,

I notice you have a Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat. As a fellow motorcycle rider who likes the Japanese 600 cc bikes, may I ask what oil you use in your YZF600 ?

I had a Yamaha RD350LC for some time, it was a great ride.
 
Originally Posted By: Thebimmerfan
Originally Posted By: Shannow


Why does low VI lead to low HTHS ?

Why is 20W..."punishing" ?

Why is 20W50 less stable at high temperatures ?

Here's two mobil offerings.



http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_Super_1000.aspx




http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5W-50.aspx

Could you explain your premise through them as examples ?

the 20W50 dino is only 127VI, so must clearly demonstrate your point.


Didn't you know that an oil with 20W-50 viscosity and an VI of 130 means this oil will be or too thick at cold start/flow or too unstable at high (above 150 Celsius) temps?..

Don't you really know why an 20W-xx oil is too punishing the mechanics below 0 temps? Maybe you live in Brazil?..

What more to say...


Focus...

the 20W50 has a higher HTHS than the 5W50...you stated that it would be lower...could go some way above 150C and still have a higher high shear viscosity.
the 20W50 has a higher flash point than the 5W50...you said it would be less thermally stable...would envisage that the NOACK would be better too.
the 5W50 has more VM polymers...less shear stability than a 127 VI dino for sure. Temporary shear stability is a given when looking at the KVs versus high shear rate viscosity.

If the 20W50 is "punishing" at 0C, then the 5W50 is similarly "punishing" at -12C...no, I live in Australia.

if you are stating that the 20W50 is punishing at 0F, yes, that's about the limits of pumpability for a 20W and something else would be more appropriate..."punishing"...seriously...

I doubt that they OP has seen 0F in his native environment, something more shear stable, greater HTHS, and less volatile could well be useful.
 
Originally Posted By: Thebimmerfan
Man, are you kidding?...Please. dont tell me you don't know of any...My cousin's Kawasaky Ninja goes to 22 000rpms and catches 160 km/h in first gear... Oil isn't just oil, high performance bikes' engines are the best test for an engine oil, their oils are really high performance, no car can put so much stress on an oil as a race bike XD


250 or 300 ?

'cause Mobil Oz recommend...

MOBIL 1 RACING 4T 10W-40
or
MOBIL EXTRA 4T 10W-40
or
MOBIL SUPER 4T 20W-50
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Thebimmerfan
Originally Posted By: Shannow


Why does low VI lead to low HTHS ?

Why is 20W..."punishing" ?

Why is 20W50 less stable at high temperatures ?

Here's two mobil offerings.



http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_Super_1000.aspx




http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5W-50.aspx

Could you explain your premise through them as examples ?

the 20W50 dino is only 127VI, so must clearly demonstrate your point.


Didn't you know that an oil with 20W-50 viscosity and an VI of 130 means this oil will be or too thick at cold start/flow or too unstable at high (above 150 Celsius) temps?..

Don't you really know why an 20W-xx oil is too punishing the mechanics below 0 temps? Maybe you live in Brazil?..

What more to say...


Focus...

the 20W50 has a higher HTHS than the 5W50...you stated that it would be lower...could go some way above 150C and still have a higher high shear viscosity.
the 20W50 has a higher flash point than the 5W50...you said it would be less thermally stable...would envisage that the NOACK would be better too.
the 5W50 has more VM polymers...less shear stability than a 127 VI dino for sure. Temporary shear stability is a given when looking at the KVs versus high shear rate viscosity.

If the 20W50 is "punishing" at 0C, then the 5W50 is similarly "punishing" at -12C...no, I live in Australia.

if you are stating that the 20W50 is punishing at 0F, yes, that's about the limits of pumpability for a 20W and something else would be more appropriate..."punishing"...seriously...

I doubt that they OP has seen 0F in his native environment, something more shear stable, greater HTHS, and less volatile could well be useful.



If you discuss only to make some discussion then I'm off, no time to lose. Just a few things to mention...Mobil 1 5W-50 has a VI of 180, Valvoline VR1 20W-50 has a VI of 136...If you don't know what this numbers mean for the overall cold/hot performance of both oils I think it's a waste of time, please discuss with someone else, you're surely not in that league to be able to say something valuable still...
 
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Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Thank you Bimmerfan and Shannow for hijacking this thread haha


My first aim was to be helpfull, please excuse me, won't repeat.
 
Originally Posted By: Thebimmerfan

.Mobil 1 5W-50 has a VI of 180, Valvoline VR1 20W-50 has a VI of 136...If you don't know what this numbers mean for the overall cold/hot performance of both oils I think it's a waste of time, please discuss with someone else, you're surely not in that league to be able to say something valuable still...


Hi Thebimmerfan,
I promise you Shannow knows exactly what VI is and how it relates to hot and cold temperature performance. A lot more than most. Maybe he knows enough to think that this simple metric is not the best description of cold temperature starting performance, and he prefers something like CCS (cold cranking simulator) and MRV as a better descriptor. He may also prefer something like HTHS (High Temperature High Shear viscosity) as a better measure of how an engine oil protects at operational temperatures, rather than KV at 100C or VI. Shannow is well in the league to discuss these things, and maybe he is trying to introduce a few other concepts into the conversation to help bring us up to his level.

All up I can see the point of your original post. The OP, was looking at a mineral VR-1 20W-50 oil for his car, and you rightly pointed out that for much the same price you can buy full synthetic Castrol Edge 10W-60, and you consider that much more oil for your money. I fully agree with you, and I would probably run the 10W-60 myself if that was my car. I believe the OP has considered this before (in other threads), but because the car has spent the last 40 years on mineral oil, he wants to keep it that way. Fair enough, it's his car, he should run the oil that makes him happy. Right now we are at the fine tuning this mineral oil selection phase. Thanks for your input.
 
Originally Posted By: Thebimmerfan
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Thank you Bimmerfan and Shannow for hijacking this thread haha


My first aim was to be helpfull, please excuse me, won't repeat.


I agree, your first aim was to help, and you selected one of my most favorite oils, Castrol 10W-60.
 
Originally Posted By: Thebimmerfan
Originally Posted By: Shannow
VR1

Best oil for my granny's sewing machine...


As Shannow said, ....Focus.

The best oil for a sewing machine is an ILSAC 5W-20

We all know that.
 
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: Thebimmerfan

.Mobil 1 5W-50 has a VI of 180, Valvoline VR1 20W-50 has a VI of 136...If you don't know what this numbers mean for the overall cold/hot performance of both oils I think it's a waste of time, please discuss with someone else, you're surely not in that league to be able to say something valuable still...


Hi Thebimmerfan,
I promise you Shannow knows exactly what VI is and how it relates to hot and cold temperature performance. A lot more than most. Maybe he knows enough to think that this simple metric is not the best description of cold temperature starting performance, and he prefers something like CCS (cold cranking simulator) and MRV as a better descriptor. He may also prefer something like HTHS (High Temperature High Shear viscosity) as a better measure of how an engine oil protects at operational temperatures, rather than KV at 100C or VI. Shannow is well in the league to discuss these things, and maybe he is trying to introduce a few other concepts into the conversation to help bring us up to his level.

All up I can see the point of your original post. The OP, was looking at a mineral VR-1 20W-50 oil for his car, and you rightly pointed out that for much the same price you can buy full synthetic Castrol Edge 10W-60, and you consider that much more oil for your money. I fully agree with you, and I would probably run the 10W-60 myself if that was my car. I believe the OP has considered this before (in other threads), but because the car has spent the last 40 years on mineral oil, he wants to keep it that way. Fair enough, it's his car, he should run the oil that makes him happy. Right now we are at the fine tuning this mineral oil selection phase. Thanks for your input.


Dear SR5, thanks so much for revealing me the reason behind shannow's posts, I highly doubt I would be able to understand them by myself given I never knew what's the meaning behind abbreviations like HTHS (as you can see I've never used it in my life, nor in the actual thread), CCS and so on...Thank you so much for helping shannow bringing the oil technology torch light so much near to me, I really ignore what would have done without so missed shannow's upgrades to my ignorance, thank you man, regards!
 
the bimmerfan...

Do you still believe the balls and sticks ?

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3935369/Re:_2014_WRX_Oil#Post3935369
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
the bimmerfan...

Do you still believe the balls and sticks ?

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3935369/Re:_2014_WRX_Oil#Post3935369


Your link doesn't work man, why?..
 
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The main reasons i'm not sure i want to run a synthetic is that, being 40 years old the seals and gaskets aren't so fresh, the synthetic would clean up the sludge that is preventing those old seals from leaking, and since i do about 2000 km a year, i don't think it's worth it spending extra money on synthetic, VR1 is also very popular in the European classic ford scene and is well known to work great in my particular engine with some people with engines making over 100 Hp per litre N/A With a flat tappet OHV setup and on carbs that use VR1 and change it regularly, i'm not discarding Bimmerfan's idea of using a Castrol full synthetic 10w60 in the future though
 
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
The main reasons i'm not sure i want to run a synthetic is that, being 40 years old the seals and gaskets aren't so fresh, the synthetic would clean up the sludge that is preventing those old seals from leaking, and since i do about 2000 km a year, i don't think it's worth it spending extra money on synthetic, VR1 is also very popular in the European classic ford scene and is well known to work great in my particular engine with some people with engines making over 100 Hp per litre N/A With a flat tappet OHV setup and on carbs that use VR1 and change it regularly, i'm not discarding Bimmerfan's idea of using a Castrol full synthetic 10w60 in the future though



If you want sludge, live with sludge! Surely a few could help you build more of it than a pure dino like VR1.
 
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Hi FCD,

Apologies for meandering a bit on this thread. It does need refocusing a bit towards what you and your Capri need.

Just out of curiosity, I had a quick look at Amazon UK for oil prices. I found...

Comma 20W50 (Mineral) - £11.52 for 4.5 litres
GTX 20W50 (Mineral) - £28.89 for 5 litres
VR1 20W50 (Mineral) - £31.49 for 5 litres (ouch!)
Edge 10W60 (Hydrocracked) - £44.06 for 4 litres
Edge 10W60 TWS (Ester) - £61.59 for 4 litres

First things first, I would stick as close to the oil that was current when your engine came off the assembly line. For the Capri that means a Group I full mineral oil. You should never under estimate the beneficial part native sulphur (the sulphur in base oil) can play in wear and oxidation.

I would avoid Group III (hydrocracked) oils because they contain so little sulphur. I would also avoid putting an ester based oil in the Capri because it may start doing funny things to seals and wear.

For what it's worth, I only truly failed one core program (the series of engine & rig tests that defines whether an oil meets SN or A3 or whatever) in my career. That oil contained ester and it was the first and last time I allowed myself to be persuaded to use it because of it's strange wear properties.

On several tests, wear was well within limits but on one particular test, the results were horrendously bad. Usually formulators tend to 'blame the test' but on that occasion it was definitely my oil that was at fault. If I learnt one lesson from that expensive car crash of a program it wasn't that esters were always bad but that they were unpredictable. You really don't want to find out if the Capri's engine is one if those engines that ester doesn't like.

Which brings me to the Comma 20W50. Looks cheap. Comma are a respectable company. Might be worth a go possibly?
 
Originally Posted By: SR5
The best oil for a sewing machine is an ILSAC 5W-20


Your granny's sewing machine won't live long...But its cat converters would be happy...
 
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