can someone explain the Ecoboost to me?

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
It is a rental, aka the world's fastest car. In service date was March of this year. Not the first time we have seen something like this on a rental. Usually they get towed in with a rod or 2 ventilating the block with the factory oil filter still on.


LOL. So who pays in this case - Ford or the rental company?

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: 09_GXP
Originally Posted By: Miller88

10 years ago if you had told me that a 2.7L engine would be moving around a pickup truck and be able to tow 7500 pounds I would have said you were out of your mind!

If I had the money to buy a brand new F150 I'd have a hard time not getting the 2.7. I could really use a truck and the 2.7 has towing capacity in my range. Of course, the 3.5NA does as well ...


But the towing experience would be quite a bit different. Having all the power of the Ecoboost in reserve is really nice when you have to merge or go through hills.


Oh, no doubt. I'm sure that 3.5NA would be losing speed and runnign at the top end of the tac the whole way on the hills to even try to keep up. And taking off would be waiting for it to wind out 1st gear before it made power.

I don't know about the 17 MY F150s, but on the 2016 the only way to get an actual parking brake lever was to get a 2.7 or above with towing package. That's good enough for me to get one!

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
It is a rental, aka the world's fastest car. In service date was March of this year. Not the first time we have seen something like this on a rental. Usually they get towed in with a rod or 2 ventilating the block with the factory oil filter still on.


LOL. So who pays in this case - Ford or the rental company?


Considering the size of the rental company it is usually covered under warranty. Now Mazda told some to pound sand. Especially when they told our tech that they would not cover his diag, Ford pays for diag under warranty.

 

[cptbarkey]

the cost of ecoboost is high, the value is questionable, the long term outlook is poor.

avoid it like the plague.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
the cost of ecoboost is high, the value is questionable, the long term outlook is poor.

avoid it like the plague.


You smoking crack?
$750 is nothing in the price of a $30k+ vehicle
6.6 years, 103k in 0 issues

I'll take it any day of the week over a NA engine. Only exception would be the Mustang. Have to have the V8 rumble.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
the cost of ecoboost is high, the value is questionable, the long term outlook is poor.

avoid it like the plague.


You smoking crack?
$750 is nothing in the price of a $30k+ vehicle
6.6 years, 103k in 0 issues

I'll take it any day of the week over a NA engine. Only exception would be the Mustang. Have to have the V8 rumble.

Longterm outlook is questionable?
LOL, I personally would never buy truck (i do not need it) but FORD is good with engines and suspension (at least European ones). Not sure about overall quality compare to some brands, but just because it has turbo does not mean it will not make same mileage like V8.
I saw numerous 1.6 turbo diesel engines in Europe running 110-120mph all the time with 300K and more. Half of V8's in truck would fall a part in that driving regime.
So, it is not turbo, it is workmanship and materials.

 

[MNgopher]

Originally Posted By: Miller88


I don't know about the 17 MY F150s, but on the 2016 the only way to get an actual parking brake lever was to get a 2.7 or above with towing package. That's good enough for me to get one!


Actually, that isn't quite right. The 2.7 only gets the separate parking brake if you get the payload package (which is different than the trailer tow package). Reason being the payload package gets the 9.75 axle like the 3.5 Ecoboosts instead of the modified 8.8 rear axle. As an example, my '16 has the tow package and does not have the separate parking brake.

In my book, that was plus after having to rebuild too many separate parking brake assemblies on my 1999 and 2004 F150's and Explorers... between the shoes delaminating or everything rusting to nothing after about 7 years...

 

[MNgopher]

Originally Posted By: columnshift

What i'm not sure about is if it's a winner for guys who are loaded 80% or more of the time like I will expect to be (when I get my next truck) from no less than 4k up to 12k, with 7-8k being common. I'm aware there's Ecoboost ratings up to 11k tow but if you're running that heavy is it going to beat a Chevy V8 for loaded MPG under the same conditions? (I assume it will perform better in higher mountains) Or a diesel for nearly the same money? (esp when I like to buy a few years old and would have to get the newer Fords to get the aluminum body that even shows the better mileage so i'm guessing no)


All I'm going to say is if that duty cycle was correct - loaded 80% of the time with a common trailer weight of 7-8000 lbs, I'd be buying a Diesel 3/4 ton truck and calling it a day. That would actually justify the increase in price to get it and result in a much my competent and comfortable towing rig.

If every now and then, I needed to tow the weight being discussed, then a 1/2ton would be fine. One of those deals that buying the better tool for the job may apply...

 

[HemiHawk]

What I wonder is how the "composite" oil pan of the 2.7 is going to hold up. I know the FX4 package has some skid plates which im sure would help. but has there been any documented cases of any vehicles having an issue with the non-metal oil pans?

The 2.7 is pretty tempting in the F150, especially since its difficult now to find 5.0 V8 models similarly equipped unless you order one.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
I know the FX4 package has some skid plates which im sure would help.

AFAIK, the purpose of most skid plates is to minimize dirt intrusion into the engine bay and to enforce particular air flow pattern to help with cooling. It is not to protect oil pan from damage.

Is the one the comes with FX4 different?

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
the cost of ecoboost is high, the value is questionable, the long term outlook is poor.

avoid it like the plague.


Disagree.

The value is proven in head on in tow competitions over and over again - EB slays all up IKE and Davis.

With the latest version sporting dual injection they addressed any valve deposit issues, upped the power , and added 4 more gears to the transmission.

Nothing in the 1/2 class can touch it.

UD

 

[09_GXP]

Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
What I wonder is how the "composite" oil pan of the 2.7 is going to hold up. I know the FX4 package has some skid plates which im sure would help. but has there been any documented cases of any vehicles having an issue with the non-metal oil pans?

The 2.7 is pretty tempting in the F150, especially since its difficult now to find 5.0 V8 models similarly equipped unless you order one.


I know Ford was at least using the composite oil pans in the 6.7L Scorpion engine back in 2011. I had my reservations about the durability in that application but it's seemed to hold up quite well from what my industry contacts tell me.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: 09_GXP
Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
What I wonder is how the "composite" oil pan of the 2.7 is going to hold up. I know the FX4 package has some skid plates which im sure would help. but has there been any documented cases of any vehicles having an issue with the non-metal oil pans?

The 2.7 is pretty tempting in the F150, especially since its difficult now to find 5.0 V8 models similarly equipped unless you order one.


I know Ford was at least using the composite oil pans in the 6.7L Scorpion engine back in 2011. I had my reservations about the durability in that application but it's seemed to hold up quite well from what my industry contacts tell me.


No issues that I have seen. At least they don't strip out as often as the 3.0L Duratech.

 

[columnshift]

Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Originally Posted By: columnshift

What i'm not sure about is if it's a winner for guys who are loaded 80% or more of the time like I will expect to be (when I get my next truck) from no less than 4k up to 12k, with 7-8k being common. I'm aware there's Ecoboost ratings up to 11k tow but if you're running that heavy is it going to beat a Chevy V8 for loaded MPG under the same conditions? (I assume it will perform better in higher mountains) Or a diesel for nearly the same money? (esp when I like to buy a few years old and would have to get the newer Fords to get the aluminum body that even shows the better mileage so i'm guessing no)


All I'm going to say is if that duty cycle was correct - loaded 80% of the time with a common trailer weight of 7-8000 lbs, I'd be buying a Diesel 3/4 ton truck and calling it a day. That would actually justify the increase in price to get it and result in a much my competent and comfortable towing rig.

If every now and then, I needed to tow the weight being discussed, then a 1/2ton would be fine. One of those deals that buying the better tool for the job may apply...


Well yeah that's what i'm trying to figure out. Where is the 'sweet spot' for the Ecoboost, at what point does it make sense to get the 3/4 ton diesel instead of going Ecoboost?

Lots and lots of lots of either apples and oranges talk here, trying to compare trucks instead of engines, or "I drive an ecoboost and it's great" or "look at the POWER" when I was asking exclusively about MPG under load, not power, wasn't disagreeing with that, it wasn't what I was asking. All i'm trying to find is actual evidence that the Ecoboost is doing what it's advertised as doing, and it's not just some marketing point to claim superior BSFC under all normal driving conditions. The Mazda Skyactiv-G for instance is doing that just without a turbo and only in sedans.

 

[4WD]

Heck, my eB is in a CUV and I love it ... We have to get on the freeway in the middle of 80 mph traffic ...and not much for entry ramps around here ... (and wet today)

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: columnshift

Lots and lots of lots of either apples and oranges talk here, trying to compare trucks instead of engines, or "I drive an ecoboost and it's great" or "look at the POWER" when I was asking exclusively about MPG under load, not power, wasn't disagreeing with that, it wasn't what I was asking. All i'm trying to find is actual evidence that the Ecoboost is doing what it's advertised as doing, and it's not just some marketing point to claim superior BSFC under all normal driving conditions. The Mazda Skyactiv-G for instance is doing that just without a turbo and only in sedans.





The GM's do slightly better unloaded, the Ford is 2nd best towing and beats the rest (Ram, Toyota) and that's with Ford's 6 speed vs the 8 speed of Ram and GM.

 

[cptbarkey]

Originally Posted By: columnshift

Lots and lots of lots of either apples and oranges talk here, trying to compare trucks instead of engines, or "I drive an ecoboost and it's great" or "look at the POWER" when I was asking exclusively about MPG under load, not power, wasn't disagreeing with that, it wasn't what I was asking. All i'm trying to find is actual evidence that the Ecoboost is doing what it's advertised as doing, and it's not just some marketing point to claim superior BSFC under all normal driving conditions. The Mazda Skyactiv-G for instance is doing that just without a turbo and only in sedans.


There is no evidence, the ecoboost sucks just as much gas if not more then the coyote.

 

[09_GXP]

Originally Posted By: columnshift


Well yeah that's what i'm trying to figure out. Where is the 'sweet spot' for the Ecoboost, at what point does it make sense to get the 3/4 ton diesel instead of going Ecoboost?


Definitely not a one-size fits all answer. Are you concerned about initial cost, lifetime cost, comfort, etc? The obvious answer is when you need the capacity of a 3/4 ton or are using most of the capacity of the 1/2 ton on a very regular basis. The other side is how comfortable you feel as a driver. Some people want the extra security from having the bigger truck, others are just fine in the smaller truck.

Originally Posted By: columnshift

Lots and lots of lots of either apples and oranges talk here, trying to compare trucks instead of engines, or "I drive an ecoboost and it's great" or "look at the POWER" when I was asking exclusively about MPG under load, not power, wasn't disagreeing with that, it wasn't what I was asking. All i'm trying to find is actual evidence that the Ecoboost is doing what it's advertised as doing, and it's not just some marketing point to claim superior BSFC under all normal driving conditions. The Mazda Skyactiv-G for instance is doing that just without a turbo and only in sedans.


Everything works as a system so you can't directly compare engines that are in different trucks. your initial post asked about cylinder deactivation vs Ecoboost which automatically makes it a conversation about different trucks. The gearing, aero, and weight all play large roles in how an engine has to be tuned to work in order to meet emissions and other requirements. If we start looking at 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton trucks it gets tougher to make good data based comparisons since they are tested to different specs. The testing pickuptrucks.com does is going to get you closest to what you are seeking.

 

[HemiHawk]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
I know the FX4 package has some skid plates which im sure would help.

AFAIK, the purpose of most skid plates is to minimize dirt intrusion into the engine bay and to enforce particular air flow pattern to help with cooling. It is not to protect oil pan from damage.

Is the one the comes with FX4 different?



I think with most belly pans/splash guards or plastic pieces underneath you're right, that's for air flow and keeping things clean. But the skid plates (at least on my jeep) are actually there to protect from things smashing the oil pan, trans/transfer case. I'm assuming its the same on the F150.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave

There are no half ton naturally aspirated or turbo v8 diesels pickups. The v8 diesels are all 3/4 ton class trucks and turbocharged.



There is the Nissan with the 5.0L Cummins V8 diesel. It's a "heavy half" or 5/8 ton.
There is also the 1/2-ton Ram with the 3.0L V6 diesel.