I saw the champ labs filter posted.
Can someone clarify the Fram situation?
- Thread starter skaughtz
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ST is made by Champ-it has been postulated that the only difference between the ST 10K & MP 20K is nitrile vs. silicone ADBV. The CQ Blues & Reds have been made by just about everyone... From Affinia/Wix, to Fram/Champ, then Mann/Purolator (Wix-ish), back to Champ again...
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- Oct 3, 2023
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150K miles is fairly young specially for Toyota standards in far as reliability goes. So you inherited the vehicle that has a history of oil consumption since could mean the previous owner might have neglected the vehicle. I'd inspect your cylinder walls with a borescope hoping they didn't too much polish and ovaled specially that your consumption levels are severe at that milage. Given you've been on time and generious with oil change intervals it wouldn't hurt to run a can of BG EPR for a good 20 - 30 minutes in the next oil change to see if you get a fighting chance to unstick the rings even by a little is still better than none then go the slow HPL Engine Cleaner + motor oil afterwards. You'd want to inspect the PCV valve as well since Toyota recommends replacing them after the first 100K miles.
A car that old with that many miles seems to tell me its been through a lot local street and city driving and not too much on the highway could mean the engine doesn't get to peak operating temperature leading to carbon buildup on the rings.
Your car has the notorious 2AZ with low tension rings. If it didn’t get a new short block, it will eventually start burning oil. You have to burn a ton of oil to even get close to justifying a new short block or engine. If you pull a spark plug and drop a bore scope your cylinder walls will have had the cross hatch polished away, and have vertical score marks.
The Champ XL is the same as the Supertech MP. The filter media appears to be the same of the Fram extra guard.
The Champ XL is the same as the Supertech MP. The filter media appears to be the same of the Fram extra guard.
A short while after I bought the car I dug into the oil burning issue, which was discussed at length over on the toyotanation forums. Toyota really should have had a class action lawsuit against them for the defect. They got away with an extended warranty-type offer but my car didn't meet the 1.2quarts burned in 1100 or 1300 miles at the time to get the pistons and rings replaced. Mine was doing relatively well until the pandemic when changes in driving habits exacerbated the issue to where it is now. I'm going with 30 viscosity oil and trying a few runs with HPL Engine Cleaner to see if that cuts down on the consumption at all. Otherwise the car is still in good condition so I might just cross my fingers and replace the spark plugs and change the oil a bit more frequently for as long as the engine holds out.
It’s hard to have a rational discussion about Toyota. They’re just a car company and they manage cost at all cost. The rings and pistons weren’t much of a fix.
Those engines are hard to kill as long as you keep oil in them. It’s going to kill the cat or the cost of oil, like a quart every 100 miles, becomes excessive.
I have a whole case of champ ph 2835’s. Tan them for years at my work without issues.
1. The official ratio is 20% of oil capacity. If you’re talking 0.25 qts or so to be “perfect”, I doubt you need to be so critical. Your sump would take 29 ounces to be perfect, so a quart would be fine IMO.
2. EC is a bunch of specially chosen esters to soften and release carbon and varnish and other solids that have precipitated onto lubricated surfaces. The regular engine oil takes this up a notch with alkylated napthalenes, but this can be a little aggressive in a dirty engine- HPL recommends at least one OCI with just the EC to gently and safely remove contaminants without plugging the filter or other engine passages.
In the case of an oil burner likely with coked oil rings, a couple OCIs with just the EC is a safe way to free those rings up. After consumption is down, you can either:
A. Switch over to HPL’s regular oil and motor on; B. Continue nearly indefinitely with simply subbing a quart of EC into your choice of oils; or C. Go back to whatever shelf stock oil you prefer and do a quart of EC say every 10-15k miles. Your choice, all are likely better than your current condition.
3. The EC is fully formulated and has HPL’s normal additive pack which is almost certainly more robust than any shelf oil, but you don’t want to run a full sump of EC because if the ratio is too strong it can affect some of the polymers from what @High Performance Lubricants has shared. So, EC + shelf oil for a few OCIs, then proceed in step 2 as you wish.
I'm just curious since you seem to be the resident HPL expert, do you think I should go with the standard sized filter (M1-103A/PLB14477/Champ PH2048XL) while I run the HPL through it each OCI, or should I up to a larger filter like the Fram FE3614/3600? If the HPL works it should be knocking off crud that will circulate so I don't want to overload the filter and cause it to bypass.
I’m hardly the resident expert when the CEO @High Performance Lubricants is on board, and @RDY4WAR is an excellent source as well.
However, I would personally use the most efficient, long life filter I can buy while the cleaning is going on. That’s the Fram Ultra or Endurance, and yes, if the 3614 or 3600 fit, more filter area is always better. Because you’ll need to swap filters at 3-5k miles and top it off, you could run the ToughGuards for the first 2-3 OCI since performance is likely almost identical at these short distances.
