Buy American........Junk

[doitmyself]

I mostly keep my opinions to myself at BITOG, but today the camel's back broke and I need to rant.

Some basic American manufacturing is going down the toilet because 1.)Companies have new owners every couple of years, and 2.) quarterly profits take priority over long term success.

A small part of my job is to do building and equipment maintenance. Every time I go to build or repair something, it seems the quality of materials is dropping. Today I received a whole case of defective B-vent (chimney). When I took it back, the dealer said the company moved the plant(south U.S.) and they were having problems with quality control.

I picked an American brand over a Canadian company to support the U.S.. Time and again, it seems like U.S. manufacturing is slipping big time.

It's hard to "buy American" when the product sucks. This transition we're in sucks. Both foreign and U.S. production is adjusting during this globalization of services and some of the results are not good.

Rant over.

 

[GMGuy]

The transistion is fine. The big wigs trying to make the product to the lowest possible quality standard is what Bites. Maybe not so much the lowest quality standard, but the attiude of 'its good enough for them as it is'.

Alex.

 

[Merkava_4]

You mean the Chinese haven't taken over chimney vent production too?

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: GMGuy
The transistion is fine. The big wigs trying to make the product to the lowest possible quality standard is what Bites. Maybe not so much the lowest quality standard, but the attiude of 'its good enough for them as it is'.

Alex.


The lack of discriminating consumers is what's driving quality down. If nobody buys garbage, nobody will make garbage. Of course, by now we are often left only with a choice between various levels of garbage.

Among the worst and the among best the differences are negligible, but the differences between the best and the worst are obvious.

 

[Aldaris]

they.. uhh... don't make things like they used to

 

[Curious Kid]

Agreed.

It's unfortunate that $$$ lead the way, but, well, that's what happens I suppose when economics is the focus. Things must increasingly change hands (if not products then services -repairs, but then you or I could learn and do it ourselves, no?). Let's ignore what must be expended to enable the production and transfers, and let's replace able workers with automated systems that don't require benefit packages and health care. For the people??? Perhaps not for the homeland residents in realtime. Then what about a manufacturing monopoly?

This just sucks!

 

[Loobed]

back in the 50's they built some bomb proof stuff!!

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: GMGuy
The transistion is fine. The big wigs trying to make the product to the lowest possible quality standard is what Bites. Maybe not so much the lowest quality standard, but the attiude of 'its good enough for them as it is'.

Alex.


The lack of discriminating consumers is what's driving quality down. If nobody buys garbage, nobody will make garbage. Of course, by now we are often left only with a choice between various levels of garbage.

Among the worst and the among best the differences are negligible, but the differences between the best and the worst are obvious.


We have first rate manufacturing in the US so I disagree with the notion that the Americans cannot make things any more.

mori is right - the manufacturer will produce quality enough to be ahead of the competition in their respective market segment. If your market is cheap and cr appy chimney vents, in order to survive you have to be better than the other cr appy chimney vent makers.

QC problems can happen during transition periods on new lines before the workers make progress on the learning curve. The problem is that in this case they actually released low quality products that clearly are not competitive. They probably had orders to deliver but in this case, unless they have reduced the price, they upset a customer.

That's a bad business practice.

 

[moribundman]

Of course there are top notch products still being Made in USA. I'll throw out a company name. Here's one: Xuron Corp.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
Of course there are top notch products still being Made in USA. I'll throw out a company name. Here's one: Xuron Corp.


I'll throw one out too:

 

[oilyriser]

The big box stores can buy the cheapest garbage, because there is little customer loyalty, and people shop by price. This creates so much garbage that there's no room for the good stuff in the market.

 

[Curious Kid]

Perhaps, like in the case of snap-on branded tools, the average Joe isn't going to see the limits that in the experience of the professionals, is where those tools shine. The average Joe sees higher initial expense and rights to brag if they so desire. Joe can make good use of the lesser expensive tools that the mechanic might otherwise pass off as junk.

I guess there's much to be said for perspective.

I also don't mean to sound like the US has given-up manufacturing all together, but I think little is know of those that are by the average person, and even though such products are "local," I have a sense that they would be more expensive. Which brings into question, just how much are American workers Expecting of their employers...relative to other countries? - granted every region has differing circumstances. A question might be - how much does something like urban sprawl where fewer are choosing to share living space, impact one's cost of living? Logically it would go up, but just how much harder is one willing to work for said earnings, along with educational expenses that continue to climb......

Everybody wants a piece of your pie!

Oh dear.

 

[javacontour]

We can build quality stuff.

The question is, at what price? Our production costs are higher than many other places in the world.

So can we build consumer quality tools for a price that competes with other producers?

Currently, it seems the answer is no.

 

[benjamming]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Our production costs are higher than many other places in the world.


Production costs are just one of the costs to be considered. There are other, and I say more expensive, costs as well. See outsourcing thread in humor(?) section. It will be great when the products are cheap b/c no one will have jobs to buy the expensive stuff. (Well, many will have jobs but you get my point.)

Originally Posted By: javacontour
The question is, at what price?

Truth.

 

[Bror Jace]

"The big box stores can buy the cheapest garbage, because there is little customer loyalty, and people shop by price. This creates so much garbage that there's no room for the good stuff in the market."

This is my fear and belief: There's so many garbage products out there for such a cheap price, many manufacturers seem afraid to produce the good stuff and be put-priced. Another hurdle is retailers are afraid to carry the good stuff even if it is made.

 

[javacontour]

Maybe they sell the cheap junk because the margins are so much better on the extended warranties?

The big box stores push the extended warranty every chance. Likely that is where the margin is.

Well that and financing. Charging 20%+ on the big box store credit card is a way to make serious coin.

 

[Drew99GT]

There's no more concept in the US of buying something that may be more expensive, but built with quality that will last a lifetime. I think manufacturers all over the world will refrain from this because THEY SELL MORE STUFF. It's a net loss economically in the long run for everyone involved. We have a surplus of crapola.

 

[Kestas]

When I start talking quality of our automotive product to other engineers at my company, and how a few cents up front can potentially save the average consumer many dollars, the other engineers educate me on the forces at work that prevent them from producing a quality part. Most of this is driven by our customer, who is ultimately driven by what the car-buying public wants.

 

[NovaMan]

Originally Posted By: Curious Kid
Perhaps, like in the case of snap-on branded tools, the average Joe isn't going to see the limits that in the experience of the professionals, is where those tools shine. The average Joe sees higher initial expense and rights to brag if they so desire. Joe can make good use of the lesser expensive tools that the mechanic might otherwise pass off as junk.

I guess there's much to be said for perspective.

Craftsman tools are pretty good, alot cheaper, made in the USA (mostly), and guaranteed for as long as they stay in business. Somehow they make decent products in the US for decent prices. Why can't more businesses do that?

 

[jmacmaster]

The idea that the reason that most of what we buy is junk is because the American consumer wants low prices and is willing to trade a low price for poor quality is nonsense. It shows a lack of knowledge of history, particularly the history of American business, marketing, products, and manufacturing. We used to generally build quality products in the U.S., and they were manufactured in the U.S. AND, people bought the products, at affordable prices. Our products, and wages and employee benefits, were the envy of the world. The manufacturers made a reasonable profit on their sales. Most of you apparently either were not around then, or haven't bothered to read the history of those times (a lack of knowledge of history is endemic in this country). The American manufacturers generally made quality products at affordable prices, paid good wages, there were these entities called "unions" that protected workers interests, and workers had decent medical insurace and retirement plans through the company.

This has ALL changed, for one reason and only one reason. Most American companies today care only about the profit margin. They don't care about product quality, their workers, their retirees, or the consumer. Profit is everything and the only thing. This is not a rant; its a historical fact. A reasonable profit is no longer the goal; the goal is to maximize profit by lowering wages, gutting employee medical insurance, trashing employee retirement benefits, and using inferior materials.

It is still possible to make a good product at a price that people can afford and will pay, and make it in this country using American workers. I'll point out only one example, which most of you are probably familiar with. The MAGLITE flashlight. Its a big seller worldwide. In my opinion, its the best ever made. I now buy only the MAGLITE, after going through dozens of flashlights made by other companies, which simply did not last long. The price is not too bad either, especially considering how long the MAGLITE will last.

American business is out of control. Its lobbyists have Congress and the executive branch of the federal government in their pockets. Workers are loosing medical benefits and retirement benefits. Wages are not keeping up with profits, production increases, or the cost of living. The use of temporary and part time workers who have no benefits is constantly increasing. We are outsourcing to other countries our jobs, factories, and company investments. Product quality is a disgrace. It is long past the time for the people to rise up and put an end to this situation.