Best First Motorcycle: How Much Is Too Much Bike??
- Thread starter SwedishRider
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The GSXR 750 is a great bike with a good pedigree but is far too much motorcycle for a first bike.
We use the LAMS system of bike approval for learner riders.
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/lams.html
Note some sub 250cc bikes are prohibited. Basically an HP-KG calculation so for instance an 883cc Harley Sportster is allowed.
The post about the 500cc Interceptor makes a lot of sense to me.
Good luck and ride safe.
We use the LAMS system of bike approval for learner riders.
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/lams.html
Note some sub 250cc bikes are prohibited. Basically an HP-KG calculation so for instance an 883cc Harley Sportster is allowed.
The post about the 500cc Interceptor makes a lot of sense to me.
Good luck and ride safe.
Originally Posted By: splineman
The GSXR 750 is a great bike with a good pedigree but is far too much motorcycle for a first bike.
How is a responsive, Nimble and reasonably light bike far too much?
I think sometimes people are Far too intimidated by the capabilities of Inanimate objects.
The GSXR 750 is a great bike with a good pedigree but is far too much motorcycle for a first bike.
How is a responsive, Nimble and reasonably light bike far too much?
I think sometimes people are Far too intimidated by the capabilities of Inanimate objects.
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Too much power to weight for a good beginners bike. A GS500 would be a better Suzuki to start off on.
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Too much power to weight for a good beginners bike. A GS500 would be a better Suzuki to start off on.
Power to weight issues Are usually controlled by the right hand on the throttle.
Even the most Timid new driver can figure that out in no time what so ever.
The bike itself only reacts to driver input.
Do you think beginners that have taken a course will not be able to figure out the proper wrist movement needed so as not loose control of a bike?
And if they can not do that should they even drive a bike in the first place?
I seriously think that any "new driver" should be able to drive most modern sport bikes without being a risk to themselves or their surroundings as long as they pay attention to what they are doing.
Too much power to weight for a good beginners bike. A GS500 would be a better Suzuki to start off on.
Power to weight issues Are usually controlled by the right hand on the throttle.
Even the most Timid new driver can figure that out in no time what so ever.
The bike itself only reacts to driver input.
Do you think beginners that have taken a course will not be able to figure out the proper wrist movement needed so as not loose control of a bike?
And if they can not do that should they even drive a bike in the first place?
I seriously think that any "new driver" should be able to drive most modern sport bikes without being a risk to themselves or their surroundings as long as they pay attention to what they are doing.
You overestimate the ability of some new riders to adapt in certain real life situations...there is less margin for error on a lighter bike with more power. There is a learning curve and with less power the bike will be more forgiving in a variety of situations that the rider is not well experienced in handling.
Just because people should be able to does not always mean they are actually able to.
Just because people should be able to does not always mean they are actually able to.
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Originally Posted By: 123Saab
Power to weight issues Are usually controlled by the right hand on the throttle.
Even the most Timid new driver can figure that out in no time what so ever.
How old are you and how long did it take you to not only truly figure this out but also resist the temptation?
Power to weight issues Are usually controlled by the right hand on the throttle.
Even the most Timid new driver can figure that out in no time what so ever.
How old are you and how long did it take you to not only truly figure this out but also resist the temptation?
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: 123Saab
Power to weight issues Are usually controlled by the right hand on the throttle.
Even the most Timid new driver can figure that out in no time what so ever.
How old are you and how long did it take you to not only truly figure this out but also resist the temptation?
Pete
I'm going to turn 50 In September.
And I started tinkering with motorcycles pretty early at my friends big brothers garage.
The first "Big Bikes" I owned was a 1972 Honda 750CB Four, And a 79 Sportster.
I really liked to drive flat out fast but I was also really aware of all the things that could go wrong.
To me, Bikes have always telegraphed things pretty directly. Much more so than a car.
The temptation was/is always there, But it makes it so much better when its done in the right surroundings. Like Track.
Granted I have broken the speedlimit in my day a time or two, But never have I lost control of a motorcycle because of horsepower.
Originally Posted By: 123Saab
Power to weight issues Are usually controlled by the right hand on the throttle.
Even the most Timid new driver can figure that out in no time what so ever.
How old are you and how long did it take you to not only truly figure this out but also resist the temptation?
Pete
I'm going to turn 50 In September.
And I started tinkering with motorcycles pretty early at my friends big brothers garage.
The first "Big Bikes" I owned was a 1972 Honda 750CB Four, And a 79 Sportster.
I really liked to drive flat out fast but I was also really aware of all the things that could go wrong.
To me, Bikes have always telegraphed things pretty directly. Much more so than a car.
The temptation was/is always there, But it makes it so much better when its done in the right surroundings. Like Track.
Granted I have broken the speedlimit in my day a time or two, But never have I lost control of a motorcycle because of horsepower.
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
there is less margin for error on a lighter bike with more power.
I bet The lighter bike with more power also is equipped with bigger/better brakes for shorter stopping distances.
And...
When you see a SUV with a soccer mom behind the wheel talking on her phone while crashing towards you thru a red light, You might want some horsepower.
there is less margin for error on a lighter bike with more power.
I bet The lighter bike with more power also is equipped with bigger/better brakes for shorter stopping distances.
And...
When you see a SUV with a soccer mom behind the wheel talking on her phone while crashing towards you thru a red light, You might want some horsepower.
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Whether a particular bike is too much for a new rider, depends on the rider. Unfortunately, there's no way to know with certainty who the riders are, which should start out on a less powerful bike than an old GSX-R 750.
I've been on two rides where new riders on arguably more machine than they should have been, grabbed too much throttle, panicked when the bike accelerated harder than they were expecting, target fixated on the upcoming curve, and went right where they were looking, which was off the road.
Both of those riders died from their injuries.
I was riding sweep in both instances, right behind those new riders, and it was obvious what happened.
I also started riding in the early 70's, and street riding in the early 80's . I have seen enough new riders to know that while some might be able to start out on a bike that is far beyond their skill level and survive. They generally make slow progress in improving their skills due to being intimidated by their bike.
Those that gain riding skill on lower performance machines before graduating to a higher performance machine such as a Sportbike, generally become much better riders in the long run.
There are also those people that never will gain riding proficiency, and should consider not riding at all. Many of my friends who are MSF instructors, tell me of those kind of people on a regular basis. Fortunately, those people usually come to that conclusion on their own.
I've been on two rides where new riders on arguably more machine than they should have been, grabbed too much throttle, panicked when the bike accelerated harder than they were expecting, target fixated on the upcoming curve, and went right where they were looking, which was off the road.
Both of those riders died from their injuries.
I was riding sweep in both instances, right behind those new riders, and it was obvious what happened.
I also started riding in the early 70's, and street riding in the early 80's . I have seen enough new riders to know that while some might be able to start out on a bike that is far beyond their skill level and survive. They generally make slow progress in improving their skills due to being intimidated by their bike.
Those that gain riding skill on lower performance machines before graduating to a higher performance machine such as a Sportbike, generally become much better riders in the long run.
There are also those people that never will gain riding proficiency, and should consider not riding at all. Many of my friends who are MSF instructors, tell me of those kind of people on a regular basis. Fortunately, those people usually come to that conclusion on their own.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
I've been on two rides where new riders on arguably more machine than they should have been, grabbed too much throttle, panicked when the bike accelerated harder than they were expecting, target fixated on the upcoming curve, and went right where they were looking, which was off the road.
Terrible stuff.
What kind of bikes?
With the throttle control and Braking with downshifts that a high rev sport bike can do I would think these kinds of tragedies could be avoided.
I've been on two rides where new riders on arguably more machine than they should have been, grabbed too much throttle, panicked when the bike accelerated harder than they were expecting, target fixated on the upcoming curve, and went right where they were looking, which was off the road.
Terrible stuff.
What kind of bikes?
With the throttle control and Braking with downshifts that a high rev sport bike can do I would think these kinds of tragedies could be avoided.
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One was an R6, the other was a GSX-R 600. Both 600cc Sportbikes. The incidents were about two years apart.
They were both apparently advised by their squid buddies that those cutting-edge Sportbikes were great beginner bikes.
Sure the bikes had great brakes, suspension, handling, and acceleration. What was lacking was skilled riders that could take advantage of those inherent bike characteristics.
They didn't have experience with that level of performance, and essentially panicked when they twisted the throttle more than they previously had, and were quickly in over their heads.
Both riders were advised we weren't racing, and it was just a nice ride through the Mountains. The second rider was even told about the first rider's untimely demise by grabbing too much throttle, panicking, target fixating, and ultimately running straight off a curve and crashing. But awhile later I watched him do the same thing.
It sucks to watch impending doom, and not be able to do a [censored] thing about it.
The sad thing is both could have easily made it around the respective curves they crashed on, if they had more experience.
I've been riding Sportbikes almost exclusively for the last 30 years. I appreciate the better performance they offer over other types of bikes, in those aspects. But the fact remains that if someone isn't used to that level of performance, they can quickly get in over their heads. Usually with bad results.
I would also advise anyone that has been riding for awhile to take a riding class like the Yamaha Champions Riding School LINK on a Roadracing track.
A guy that I grew up riding with, is an instructor with that school.
Even if you don't have any intention of racing, learning what you and bikes are truly capable of, without the distraction of cars, gravel, wild animals, etc., will only make you a better street rider.
They were both apparently advised by their squid buddies that those cutting-edge Sportbikes were great beginner bikes.
Sure the bikes had great brakes, suspension, handling, and acceleration. What was lacking was skilled riders that could take advantage of those inherent bike characteristics.
They didn't have experience with that level of performance, and essentially panicked when they twisted the throttle more than they previously had, and were quickly in over their heads.
Both riders were advised we weren't racing, and it was just a nice ride through the Mountains. The second rider was even told about the first rider's untimely demise by grabbing too much throttle, panicking, target fixating, and ultimately running straight off a curve and crashing. But awhile later I watched him do the same thing.
It sucks to watch impending doom, and not be able to do a [censored] thing about it.
The sad thing is both could have easily made it around the respective curves they crashed on, if they had more experience.
I've been riding Sportbikes almost exclusively for the last 30 years. I appreciate the better performance they offer over other types of bikes, in those aspects. But the fact remains that if someone isn't used to that level of performance, they can quickly get in over their heads. Usually with bad results.
I would also advise anyone that has been riding for awhile to take a riding class like the Yamaha Champions Riding School LINK on a Roadracing track.
A guy that I grew up riding with, is an instructor with that school.
Even if you don't have any intention of racing, learning what you and bikes are truly capable of, without the distraction of cars, gravel, wild animals, etc., will only make you a better street rider.
Originally Posted By: splineman
Basically an HP-KG calculation so for instance an 883cc Harley Sportster is allowed.
There is a 660cc limit, so no, you can't have the 883 Sporty. So a BMW R65 with 50hp is learner approved, but an R80 with 50hp is not.
There seems to be a lot of image involved, small bikes are not considered ''enough.'' Learn to wring the neck of a smaller bike before moving up. I'd go for the CB500.
Basically an HP-KG calculation so for instance an 883cc Harley Sportster is allowed.
There is a 660cc limit, so no, you can't have the 883 Sporty. So a BMW R65 with 50hp is learner approved, but an R80 with 50hp is not.
There seems to be a lot of image involved, small bikes are not considered ''enough.'' Learn to wring the neck of a smaller bike before moving up. I'd go for the CB500.
Originally Posted By: 123Saab
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
A Burgman is a 480lb maxi-scoot, capable of ~100MPH (limited by gearing, not power) and happy to run highway speeds even 2-up. A 650 Burgman will touch 130MPH.
I had no clue.
What size wheels on that thing?
120/80-14 front, 150/70-13 rear.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
A Burgman is a 480lb maxi-scoot, capable of ~100MPH (limited by gearing, not power) and happy to run highway speeds even 2-up. A 650 Burgman will touch 130MPH.
I had no clue.
What size wheels on that thing?
120/80-14 front, 150/70-13 rear.
Originally Posted By: 123Saab
Originally Posted By: splineman
The GSXR 750 is a great bike with a good pedigree but is far too much motorcycle for a first bike.
How is a responsive, Nimble and reasonably light bike far too much?
I think sometimes people are Far too intimidated by the capabilities of Inanimate objects.
The same reason you wouldn't give a 16-year-old a Corvette or 911 Turbo as a first car!
Originally Posted By: splineman
The GSXR 750 is a great bike with a good pedigree but is far too much motorcycle for a first bike.
How is a responsive, Nimble and reasonably light bike far too much?
I think sometimes people are Far too intimidated by the capabilities of Inanimate objects.
The same reason you wouldn't give a 16-year-old a Corvette or 911 Turbo as a first car!
Originally Posted By: 123Saab
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
there is less margin for error on a lighter bike with more power.
I bet The lighter bike with more power also is equipped with bigger/better brakes for shorter stopping distances.
And...
When you see a SUV with a soccer mom behind the wheel talking on her phone while crashing towards you thru a red light, You might want some horsepower.
By that "logic", why go with a pokey 750...get a ZX14 or a Hayabusa!
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
there is less margin for error on a lighter bike with more power.
I bet The lighter bike with more power also is equipped with bigger/better brakes for shorter stopping distances.
And...
When you see a SUV with a soccer mom behind the wheel talking on her phone while crashing towards you thru a red light, You might want some horsepower.
By that "logic", why go with a pokey 750...get a ZX14 or a Hayabusa!
New rider, used 250. He might like it. I still have mine. If fuel keeps going up , the smaller bikes are going to be more popular.
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WOW! Lots of information and food for thought. I've enjoyed reading all your perspectives on this! I have to ponder it for some time, and also take the MSF course to see if I like riding and how good I could expect to be at it.
I may look to poll the wisdom of the group again after I take the course this season. Once I've actually ridden and have some feedback, that may help to guide where I should go for a first bike (or it might turn me off to the whole riding concept- and it'll end right there).
Thanks for all your feedback and thoughts!
I may look to poll the wisdom of the group again after I take the course this season. Once I've actually ridden and have some feedback, that may help to guide where I should go for a first bike (or it might turn me off to the whole riding concept- and it'll end right there).
Thanks for all your feedback and thoughts!
Originally Posted By: SwedishRider
Once I've actually ridden and have some feedback, that may help to guide where I should go for a first bike (or it might turn me off to the whole riding concept- and it'll end right there).
Do you know how to drive a stick? This and the basic understanding of how a manual transmission works helps greatly in getting a hang of bike riding.
For me personally, probably the biggest thing that I got out of an MSF course (like you, I had never ridden a bike prior to taking it) is the realization of how vulnerable you are on a bike. As a car driver, it helped me be more vigilant of bike riders sharing the road with me and to respect them more. But it also made me aware of all the risks involved in bike riding. For some, this realization will effectively end all their interest in biking. But for most, I think, the fun of the ride will somewhat outweigh the inherent risks, and they'll be hooked, looking forward to more practice and improving their skills post MSF. After all, MSF mainly teaches you how to pass the DMV test. It is useful for what it is, but it is barely just scratching the surface of riding. The rest is on you.
Good luck! Be sure to report back after you've taken your MSF course.
EDIT: Going back to the two bikes you listed in your opening post, the 500 seems like it'd have the right combination of power and weight for a beginner/intermediate rider. I test rode it last year, and it seemed very manageable, however, the riding position was still too forward for my liking (I've got short arms), so I ended up passing on it. But again, that's personal preference. You won't know for sure until you ride it.
Once I've actually ridden and have some feedback, that may help to guide where I should go for a first bike (or it might turn me off to the whole riding concept- and it'll end right there).
Do you know how to drive a stick? This and the basic understanding of how a manual transmission works helps greatly in getting a hang of bike riding.
For me personally, probably the biggest thing that I got out of an MSF course (like you, I had never ridden a bike prior to taking it) is the realization of how vulnerable you are on a bike. As a car driver, it helped me be more vigilant of bike riders sharing the road with me and to respect them more. But it also made me aware of all the risks involved in bike riding. For some, this realization will effectively end all their interest in biking. But for most, I think, the fun of the ride will somewhat outweigh the inherent risks, and they'll be hooked, looking forward to more practice and improving their skills post MSF. After all, MSF mainly teaches you how to pass the DMV test. It is useful for what it is, but it is barely just scratching the surface of riding. The rest is on you.
Good luck! Be sure to report back after you've taken your MSF course.
EDIT: Going back to the two bikes you listed in your opening post, the 500 seems like it'd have the right combination of power and weight for a beginner/intermediate rider. I test rode it last year, and it seemed very manageable, however, the riding position was still too forward for my liking (I've got short arms), so I ended up passing on it. But again, that's personal preference. You won't know for sure until you ride it.
I do know how to drive a manual transmission, but I haven't had much experience doing so. I would most likely be pretty rough with a stick-shift car until I'd practiced a bit, but I'm sure with some time I could be smooth with it.
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