A lot of Toyotas have a baffle just inside the oil filler cap (and Lexus as well). I don't know why, but Toyota has made these things black and rough feeling, almost exactly like sludge. Really. Although your car may have the Toyota engine that was sludge prone, what you're seeing inside the oil filler hole may not be sludge.
Auto-Rx in '02 Lexus ES300
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Originally Posted By: rcy
A lot of Toyotas have a baffle just inside the oil filler cap (and Lexus as well). I don't know why, but Toyota has made these things black and rough feeling, almost exactly like sludge. Really. Although your car may have the Toyota engine that was sludge prone, what you're seeing inside the oil filler hole may not be sludge.
Thanks for pointing that out.
I'm actually looking forward to cutting open the filters from the applications, just to see what was picked up.
A lot of Toyotas have a baffle just inside the oil filler cap (and Lexus as well). I don't know why, but Toyota has made these things black and rough feeling, almost exactly like sludge. Really. Although your car may have the Toyota engine that was sludge prone, what you're seeing inside the oil filler hole may not be sludge.
Thanks for pointing that out.
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There was one poor fellow with an 02 RX350. He must have (my speculation) slouched on the oil changes a bit over his lease and began to run into issues as the lease came near to the end. He took it in to have it checked out and they said that he needed a $7000 long block. He got a 2nd opinion to see if they were telling him the truth. The indy found what he described as mud.
Now the guy is using Auto-Rx and hoping that he can clean it up enough before lease end.
These are very intolerant engines. It's not like this sorta thing is something new to automotive design. Even our heralded BMW had head cracking issues on their 3 series inline 6 from the days of the Bavaria through the 80's. My buddy was a machinist and made the spacer for the dealer fix of a 1.5" thicker radiator. Back then a bare head was $1200/cost.
You can understand returning to proven flawed designs from someone like Fiat or Peugeot ..but the higher end Euro's and the Asians? It's not what we're conditioned to think. Americans can bring a flawed design to market simply because it's cheaper to pay warranty claims than stopping the trains and ditching millions of $$ worth of parts that are already tooled up and in motion ...but to climb up the same tree year after year ..that's just odd.
Now the guy is using Auto-Rx and hoping that he can clean it up enough before lease end.
These are very intolerant engines. It's not like this sorta thing is something new to automotive design. Even our heralded BMW had head cracking issues on their 3 series inline 6 from the days of the Bavaria through the 80's. My buddy was a machinist and made the spacer for the dealer fix of a 1.5" thicker radiator. Back then a bare head was $1200/cost.
You can understand returning to proven flawed designs from someone like Fiat or Peugeot ..but the higher end Euro's and the Asians? It's not what we're conditioned to think. Americans can bring a flawed design to market simply because it's cheaper to pay warranty claims than stopping the trains and ditching millions of $$ worth of parts that are already tooled up and in motion ...but to climb up the same tree year after year ..that's just odd.
E46 BMW's also had a toy cooling system. I've lost count of the cooked engines from exploding expansion tanks on the BMW forums.
I've learned that the best way to mitigate the poor structural design of the E46 expansion tank is to keep the water level at minimum, not maximum. Too many drivers fill to the brim causing too much pressure for the plastic expansion tank to handle.
Anyway, back to topic ... what's the factory 'recommended' OCI of the Lexus?
The late model BMW's are 15,000 miles/24,000 km. That's why a lot of 'dealer-maintained' 4-cyl engines (not available in the U.S.) are prone to sludging.
Anyway, back to topic ... what's the factory 'recommended' OCI of the Lexus?
The late model BMW's are 15,000 miles/24,000 km. That's why a lot of 'dealer-maintained' 4-cyl engines (not available in the U.S.) are prone to sludging.
E46 6 cyls get sludged with 25,000 km OCI.
Originally Posted By: SamSpade
Anyway, back to topic ... what's the factory 'recommended' OCI of the Lexus?
That's a tricky question. There's the dealer 'recommended' schedule and the factory 'recommended' schedule. The dealer recommends an oil change every 5,000 km with 20W-50 regardless of the kind of service the vehicle is put into. The factory recommendations are:
Severe service: every 10,000 km.
Normal service: every 15,000 km.
Using XOM-supplied Lexus 5W-40 full synthetic (API SM).
Anyway, back to topic ... what's the factory 'recommended' OCI of the Lexus?
That's a tricky question. There's the dealer 'recommended' schedule and the factory 'recommended' schedule. The dealer recommends an oil change every 5,000 km with 20W-50 regardless of the kind of service the vehicle is put into. The factory recommendations are:
Severe service: every 10,000 km.
Normal service: every 15,000 km.
Using XOM-supplied Lexus 5W-40 full synthetic (API SM).
Strange, I always thought dealers were obligated to follow factory recommendations for warranty and liability reasons.
Maybe that's because Lexus doesn't do that 4-yr/50,000 mile free 'maintenance' like what Audi/BMW/MB does?
Maybe that's because Lexus doesn't do that 4-yr/50,000 mile free 'maintenance' like what Audi/BMW/MB does?
Well, I'll take that 5,000 km dino oil OCI anytime over the long synthetic one. That's how I discovered this forum (and Auto-Rx) in the first place. The previous owner of my BMW had the oil changed at 20,000 km. By the time I got it at only 36,000 km it was already sludged. Granted we live in a city where average speeds are 25-30 km/h, but the on-board computer reminder doesn't seem to take it into account.
I would dare say that a 5,000 km dino OCI could have prevented your sludge build-up, but I don't know much about your engine to otherwise say it was inevitable.
I would dare say that a 5,000 km dino OCI could have prevented your sludge build-up, but I don't know much about your engine to otherwise say it was inevitable.
I wouldn't be so quick to diss long OCIs.
Many here have posted pictures of their engines that have run on synthetic, and they are as clean as a whistle inside. However, reasonable OCIs are important - 20,000 km is a very long interval to be driving in city traffic. Whilst 20,000 km with a full synthetic would have been perfectly alright if it was mostly highway driving, I would have personally halved that to 10,000 km under stop and go driving conditions.
Agreed. That's what I actually recommend to friends here -- 5,000 km on dino/semisyn or 10,000 km on full synthetic. Following the BMW OBC causes too much trouble.
On a side note, how much is M1 0W-40 in Kuwait? Here it's US$16/liter. Most of our U.S. friends don't know how good they have it.
On a side note, how much is M1 0W-40 in Kuwait? Here it's US$16/liter. Most of our U.S. friends don't know how good they have it.
Originally Posted By: SamSpade
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On a side note, how much is M1 0W-40 in Kuwait? Here it's US$16/liter. Most of our U.S. friends don't know how good they have it.
True. We are spoiled with very low oil price (after mail-in-rebate(s)). Such that I'm still debating if I should buy M1 for less than $3/qt after tax and rebate or buying more Pennzoil Platinum for about $1.4/qt (after tax and rebate).
Back to topic, I would use syn oil after ARX treatment but have OCI at 7-8k miles.
...
On a side note, how much is M1 0W-40 in Kuwait? Here it's US$16/liter. Most of our U.S. friends don't know how good they have it.
True. We are spoiled with very low oil price (after mail-in-rebate(s)). Such that I'm still debating if I should buy M1 for less than $3/qt after tax and rebate or buying more Pennzoil Platinum for about $1.4/qt (after tax and rebate).
Back to topic, I would use syn oil after ARX treatment but have OCI at 7-8k miles.
Originally Posted By: SamSpade
Well, I'll take that 5,000 km dino oil OCI anytime over the long synthetic one. That's how I discovered this forum (and Auto-Rx) in the first place. The previous owner of my BMW had the oil changed at 20,000 km. By the time I got it at only 36,000 km it was already sludged. Granted we live in a city where average speeds are 25-30 km/h, but the on-board computer reminder doesn't seem to take it into account.
I would dare say that a 5,000 km dino OCI could have prevented your sludge build-up, but I don't know much about your engine to otherwise say it was inevitable.
Was he doing Dino oil changes?
Don't BMW's spec Syn oil?
Well, I'll take that 5,000 km dino oil OCI anytime over the long synthetic one. That's how I discovered this forum (and Auto-Rx) in the first place. The previous owner of my BMW had the oil changed at 20,000 km. By the time I got it at only 36,000 km it was already sludged. Granted we live in a city where average speeds are 25-30 km/h, but the on-board computer reminder doesn't seem to take it into account.
I would dare say that a 5,000 km dino OCI could have prevented your sludge build-up, but I don't know much about your engine to otherwise say it was inevitable.
Was he doing Dino oil changes?
Don't BMW's spec Syn oil?
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The Lexus was on dealer-provided 20W-50 dino oil. Not clear if the OCI was 10,000 km or less. Could you clarify that Falcon_LS?
For the BMWs, yes, they spec BMW LL-01 synthetic oil. They are either thick xW-30 or thin xW-40, with viscosity ranging from 11.5 to 14.0 cSt @100°C. The most popular ones are GC and Mobil 1 0W-40.
Again, the problem is the long OCI. For a hot and humid country like ours where traffic is severe and highway mileage is but a short percentage, the 15,000 mile/24,000 km OCI is way too long. I've seen too many oil-related problems for those that go beyond 10,000 km, especially for the 4-cyl ones that only have a 4.25 liter sump.
So I've decided that an ACEA A3/B4 dino or semi-syn within the correct viscosity range and changed every 5,000 km is the better way to go -- at least for our local conditions.
For the BMWs, yes, they spec BMW LL-01 synthetic oil. They are either thick xW-30 or thin xW-40, with viscosity ranging from 11.5 to 14.0 cSt @100°C. The most popular ones are GC and Mobil 1 0W-40.
Again, the problem is the long OCI. For a hot and humid country like ours where traffic is severe and highway mileage is but a short percentage, the 15,000 mile/24,000 km OCI is way too long. I've seen too many oil-related problems for those that go beyond 10,000 km, especially for the 4-cyl ones that only have a 4.25 liter sump.
So I've decided that an ACEA A3/B4 dino or semi-syn within the correct viscosity range and changed every 5,000 km is the better way to go -- at least for our local conditions.
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SS - the best component to monitor in that environment is fuel usage. That will effectively work out to an mpg figure. The BMW/LEXUS OCI should have a time component to them too that will be what the OEM considers an equivalency of fatigue on the oil.
That is, a car that's capable of 28mpg under normal conditions ..that's getting 21 mpg under actual conditions is doing 133% of the toil of the higher mpg engine. 10000km may be 13-14000km in "real" terms. A 10000km OCI should be 7500km under those conditions.
That is, a car that's capable of 28mpg under normal conditions ..that's getting 21 mpg under actual conditions is doing 133% of the toil of the higher mpg engine. 10000km may be 13-14000km in "real" terms. A 10000km OCI should be 7500km under those conditions.
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