Auto industry complaints. Vent yours

[AdRock]

Originally Posted By: Throckmorton
Ford Mustang Rear Axle:

This car is based on the old Lincoln LS/Jaguar S-Type platform. Both of those cars had an independent rear supension.

When Ford designed the Mustang they didn't need need to design a cheap solid axle rear suspension. They had the existing machine tools and existing IRS design from LS/S-Type available. They literally designed a new rear axle and created new tools to stamp out the axle to save on the marginal cost of the new cheaper rear supension.

How much were they honestly going to save?

That said, the Mustang's six cylinder engine is quite impressive.



Ford using a solid rear axle is because that's what the majority of the customers wanted. Ev erybody loved the 03-04 Cobra's but a TON of people swapped out the IRS for a solid axle because they drag raced them. This is also the reason the next gen Cobra came with the solid axle.

The axle is still the 8.8. Nothing new about it except mounting hardware in different spots.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: morris
i may have said this here before, so fore give me if i have. i realy have a hard time loveing my chrysler cars/trucks. however they cant make a a/c hose that doesnt leek. i cant spend $300-500 every 3-4 years, so i dont have a/c and may never have it. thats just one thing, i have more. and yes i have tryed other brands and the ford ranger i bought my son isnt 1/10 the truck of my dakota. both the same year and mileage


Heard this one before.

It has little to do with brand and everything to do with quality. Locate a local high pressure hose fab guy and they will make you one that is ten times better than anything over the counter!

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: AdRock
Originally Posted By: Throckmorton
Ford Mustang Rear Axle:

This car is based on the old Lincoln LS/Jaguar S-Type platform. Both of those cars had an independent rear supension.

When Ford designed the Mustang they didn't need need to design a cheap solid axle rear suspension. They had the existing machine tools and existing IRS design from LS/S-Type available. They literally designed a new rear axle and created new tools to stamp out the axle to save on the marginal cost of the new cheaper rear supension.

How much were they honestly going to save?

That said, the Mustang's six cylinder engine is quite impressive.



Ford using a solid rear axle is because that's what the majority of the customers wanted. Ev erybody loved the 03-04 Cobra's but a TON of people swapped out the IRS for a solid axle because they drag raced them. This is also the reason the next gen Cobra came with the solid axle.

The axle is still the 8.8. Nothing new about it except mounting hardware in different spots.


+1, theres something to be said for simplicity. Plus so many Terminators chunked their IRS housings from people launching hard. Then theres the whole thing of the carbon fibre diff clutches melting from the exhaust running under the pumpkin.

That being said, a Terminator with a nicely built IRS housing is such a joy to drive, especially one like my friends with 700+ rwhp on pump gas.

 

[SteveSRT8]

You can imagine the reasons Ford did anything, but the real reason was money, pure and simple.

 

[morris]

i think ill test your idea. but i think a hose shop use to jic might have trouble with the odd ball fittings on a a/c hose. i think.

 

[AdRock]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
You can imagine the reasons Ford did anything, but the real reason was money, pure and simple.


And you know this HOW? Anything to back that up with?

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: AdRock
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
You can imagine the reasons Ford did anything, but the real reason was money, pure and simple.


And you know this HOW? Anything to back that up with?


Its implicit in the fact that they are a corporation. Nothing 'good' or 'bad,' 'right' or 'wrong' about that, its just what it is. As a corporation they, like every other for-profit corporation, are based on a corporate charter whose prime mandate is to maximize profit; anything else is secondary.

Therefore their motive is, logically, exactly as bluntly as he put it. Again, there is nothing good or bad inherent in that. Its a simple recognition and statement of the profit motive which is the prime mandate of every profit seeking corporation, which would of course include Ford as well.

Very simple. Nothing sinister or hidden about that, and it doesn't require anything other than the basic grasp of what corporations as entities are that he has, I have, many other people have, and which your post illustrates you lack.

That can be forgiven as you're not alone. Because human nature has a tendency to project 'evil' or some other kind of ill sounding taint on such motives, corporations don't rub people's noses in it and many (who are unable to realize profit is not inherently 'bad' or 'evil') either manage to go through life unaware of that fact, or create illusions to bestow opposite properties (like 'right' and 'good') on corporations they like or whose products they buy; as to do otherwise would be to taint themselves with the 'dirty' adjectives that a misunderstanding (or lack of understanding) of the profit motive is susceptible to.

-Spyder

 

[grampi]

My complaint about the auto industry is the same as it's been for years now. Instead of using today's technological advancements for improved fuel economy, auto makers would rather use that technology to make models larger, more powerful, and more packed full of electronic gizmos. I'm sick of seeing car commercials touting 30 something MPG, like that's a good figure. They're trying to use marketing to force people to believe that 30 something MPG is good fuel economy, when in reality vehicles today could easily be getting twice that mileage. I want to see auto makers producing vehicles with steadily rising fuel economy numbers, and eventually building affordable vehicles that don't use fossil fuels at all...

 

[IndyIan]

It would be interesting to see the costs of designing of the basic car, and then the costs of designing all the electronic fluff to make it top of the line. I suspect the majority of the cost of a car is the basics and the majority of the profits come from the fluff, so you can see why they don't make the fluff optional...

You can still buy a manual Accord sedan but it comes virtually loaded.

 

[BubbaFL]

Internal engine components made out of plastic (timing chain guides / tensioners / cassettes for example). Cheap plastic [censored] has no place inside my engine.

Ball joints and tie rod ends with no grease fittings.

Retarded engineering decisions that should have gotten someone fired, not been mass produced - like putting a timing chain on the back of a motor.

Plastic end tanks on radiators.

 

[Stu_Rock]

My biggest desire is for station wagons to return to the North American market.

I'd also like to see the column shifter and front bench seat available on more passenger cars. It looks like the 2012 Impala is going to be the last one (2011 marks the death of the Grand Marquis, Lucerne, and DTS). If we must have floor shifters, at least make the console and armrest unobtrusive.

To GM: quit being pansies about bringing Holden Commodores to NA. Just pull the trigger and do it. Especially the sportwagon.

To everyone: No more drum brakes. No more timing belts on interference engines.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Stu_Rock
My biggest desire is for station wagons to return to the North American market.

I'd also like to see the column shifter and front bench seat available on more passenger cars. It looks like the 2012 Impala is going to be the last one (2011 marks the death of the Grand Marquis, Lucerne, and DTS). If we must have floor shifters, at least make the console and armrest unobtrusive.

To GM: quit being pansies about bringing Holden Commodores to NA. Just pull the trigger and do it. Especially the sportwagon.

To everyone: No more drum brakes. No more timing belts on interference engines.


How about no more timing belts or interference engines, period?

 

[eljefino]

Quote:
The last I heard, 20% of the value (or production costs) of the car is in the electronics. This was 20 years ago.

This is a pet peeve of mine. My Mercedes is LOADED with electronics. Mechanical items can last forever. Electronic items don't, and the components are rather expensive to replace, and only if they're available. It is quite conceivable that future cars may go to the junkyard in near-mint condition because the electronics give out and aren't worth replacing.


My dad, who restord a 1940 ford coupe, said noone would restore a 70s era car because of all the plastic. Electronics are the new plastic?

I would not be suprised if someone made a replacement universal computer (that could replace a body control module or anything else) with analog ins and outs, reverse engineered programming in wiki format, and wiring diagrams online. Of course it would be as expensive as a megasquirt FI computer or Painless wiring harness.

OTOH it looks like most issues get solved by replacing dried out capacitors. The ignition module on my bike apparently responds well to this. Imagine a third world country doing the tedious work on this.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: eljefino

I would not be suprised if someone made a replacement universal computer (that could replace a body control module or anything else) with analog ins and outs, reverse engineered programming in wiki format, and wiring diagrams online. Of course it would be as expensive as a megasquirt FI computer or Painless wiring harness.


I don't see the appeal. The appeal of restoring a purely mechanical (and associated detailing) involved in a coveted pre-2000 era classic (or soon to be classic) auto is easily imagined and a project I would love to one day undertake myself.

I can't say the same for dealing with the nightmare involved in restoring a 2010+ model involving mechanical work and detailing coupled with troubleshooting and replacing multiple corroded or burnt electronic systems. Pass. I view what's being made today as good for its warranty period and disposable afterward.

The increasing trend toward more electronic sophistication (meaning complexity) combined with an increasing trend toward being less DIY friendly (even for routine maintenance) is a no go from my POV in terms of any kind of project or restoration idea. I see this decade as putting an end to that era. Those with that desire will look to models produced at least pre-2010, and maybe even pre-2000.

-Spyder

 

[AdRock]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: AdRock
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
You can imagine the reasons Ford did anything, but the real reason was money, pure and simple.


And you know this HOW? Anything to back that up with?


Its implicit in the fact that they are a corporation. Nothing 'good' or 'bad,' 'right' or 'wrong' about that, its just what it is. As a corporation they, like every other for-profit corporation, are based on a corporate charter whose prime mandate is to maximize profit; anything else is secondary.

Therefore their motive is, logically, exactly as bluntly as he put it. Again, there is nothing good or bad inherent in that. Its a simple recognition and statement of the profit motive which is the prime mandate of every profit seeking corporation, which would of course include Ford as well.

Very simple. Nothing sinister or hidden about that, and it doesn't require anything other than the basic grasp of what corporations as entities are that he has, I have, many other people have, and which your post illustrates you lack.

That can be forgiven as you're not alone. Because human nature has a tendency to project 'evil' or some other kind of ill sounding taint on such motives, corporations don't rub people's noses in it and many (who are unable to realize profit is not inherently 'bad' or 'evil') either manage to go through life unaware of that fact, or create illusions to bestow opposite properties (like 'right' and 'good') on corporations they like or whose products they buy; as to do otherwise would be to taint themselves with the 'dirty' adjectives that a misunderstanding (or lack of understanding) of the profit motive is susceptible to.

-Spyder


I agree with that. I'm sure money was definitely a concern. But Ford also asked the aftermarket what they are seeing and hearing from customers, got info from mustang forums that are huge for customer feedback, there are 3 of them that cover a huge part of the performance aftermarket crowd for mustangs, as well as having a comment portal for customers touse.

As I see it Ford got a win/win situation. The majority of their customers that bought the cars for performance didn't like the IRS AND the solid axle is a cheapr setup. They kept the customer base happy and saved some cash.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: AdRock
I agree with that. I'm sure money was definitely a concern. But Ford also asked the aftermarket what they are seeing and hearing from customers, got info from mustang forums that are huge for customer feedback, there are 3 of them that cover a huge part of the performance aftermarket crowd for mustangs, as well as having a comment portal for customers touse.

As I see it Ford got a win/win situation. The majority of their customers that bought the cars for performance didn't like the IRS AND the solid axle is a cheapr setup. They kept the customer base happy and saved some cash.


That is wonderful, and I appreciate that Ford is actually listening to it's clients.

But rest assured, if it comes down to money, the bean counters ALWAYS win!

 

[morris]

a/c hoses that dont last more than 3 years. iam 62 and think ill never own a car with a/c.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: morris
a/c hoses that dont last more than 3 years. iam 62 and think ill never own a car with a/c.

No way, my Saturn had 15 years on the original A/C hoses with no problems at all. Our Toyota van has almost 20 years on the original hoses. What do you drive?

 

[SteveSRT8]

Morris, that's something special.

Every single one of our fleet trucks has the original AC in them. Never been recharged or serviced in any way!

I have put a tensioner pulley on one of the Silverados, but that was also a freak as I have them with 400k miles on them and going fine.

Seriously, any good pro hose shop can make you a near permanent replacement.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: BubbaFL

Plastic end tanks on radiators.


Now many cars have gone to plastic junk for the thermostat housing as well.
Those plastic thermostat housings often fail before the stupid plastic radiator parts fail.

Many water pumps have a plastic impeller that easily shears off, making replacement mandatory.

Plastic pieces that held together GM V6 intake gaskets were a real disaster too.

More metal less plastic please!