At what point does cold idling outweigh mileage?
- Thread starter cheesepuffs
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OP
Your vehicle is an appliance meant to serve its owner. PERIOD.
If you want to idle it for 2 hours go ahead. When its -35c outside my car idles for at least half an hour and the heated seats still aren't warm,but the oil is at 180f and its blowing hot air. The windows are clear and I'm comfortable. And that's what matters.
I'm not sure the answer to your question though.
Your vehicle is an appliance meant to serve its owner. PERIOD.
If you want to idle it for 2 hours go ahead. When its -35c outside my car idles for at least half an hour and the heated seats still aren't warm,but the oil is at 180f and its blowing hot air. The windows are clear and I'm comfortable. And that's what matters.
I'm not sure the answer to your question though.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
OP
Your vehicle is an appliance meant to serve its owner. PERIOD.
If you want to idle it for 2 hours go ahead. When its -35c outside my car idles for at least half an hour and the heated seats still aren't warm,but the oil is at 180f and its blowing hot air. The windows are clear and I'm comfortable. And that's what matters.
I'm not sure the answer to your question though.
Good to know somebody around here sees things the way I do. People telling me to walk to prevent fuel dilution? Why own a vehicle then??
OP
Your vehicle is an appliance meant to serve its owner. PERIOD.
If you want to idle it for 2 hours go ahead. When its -35c outside my car idles for at least half an hour and the heated seats still aren't warm,but the oil is at 180f and its blowing hot air. The windows are clear and I'm comfortable. And that's what matters.
I'm not sure the answer to your question though.
Good to know somebody around here sees things the way I do. People telling me to walk to prevent fuel dilution? Why own a vehicle then??
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Originally Posted By: Clevy
OP
Your vehicle is an appliance meant to serve its owner. PERIOD.
If you want to idle it for 2 hours go ahead. When its -35c outside my car idles for at least half an hour and the heated seats still aren't warm,but the oil is at 180f and its blowing hot air. The windows are clear and I'm comfortable. And that's what matters.
I'm not sure the answer to your question though.
Good to know somebody around here sees things the way I do. People telling me to walk to prevent fuel dilution? Why own a vehicle then??
Exactly.
My commute is 40 miles each way. Fuel dilution is a non is due for me. Your short trek is different. You've got a couple options the way I see it.
You can shorten the interval or go for an hour long highway run every couple weeks to evaporate and accumulation. Figure out which is cheaper as in is the oil cheaper to change or is the fuel cheaper to burn on a highway run.
Either way will work. Personally if it was warmer out or I had a heated shop I'd change the oil but since it's too cold for much wrench turning it may be easier to just drive it and burn off the accumulation.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
OP
Your vehicle is an appliance meant to serve its owner. PERIOD.
If you want to idle it for 2 hours go ahead. When its -35c outside my car idles for at least half an hour and the heated seats still aren't warm,but the oil is at 180f and its blowing hot air. The windows are clear and I'm comfortable. And that's what matters.
I'm not sure the answer to your question though.
Good to know somebody around here sees things the way I do. People telling me to walk to prevent fuel dilution? Why own a vehicle then??
Exactly.
My commute is 40 miles each way. Fuel dilution is a non is due for me. Your short trek is different. You've got a couple options the way I see it.
You can shorten the interval or go for an hour long highway run every couple weeks to evaporate and accumulation. Figure out which is cheaper as in is the oil cheaper to change or is the fuel cheaper to burn on a highway run.
Either way will work. Personally if it was warmer out or I had a heated shop I'd change the oil but since it's too cold for much wrench turning it may be easier to just drive it and burn off the accumulation.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Originally Posted By: Clevy
OP
Your vehicle is an appliance meant to serve its owner. PERIOD.
If you want to idle it for 2 hours go ahead. When its -35c outside my car idles for at least half an hour and the heated seats still aren't warm,but the oil is at 180f and its blowing hot air. The windows are clear and I'm comfortable. And that's what matters.
I'm not sure the answer to your question though.
Good to know somebody around here sees things the way I do. People telling me to walk to prevent fuel dilution? Why own a vehicle then??
Exactly.
My commute is 40 miles each way. Fuel dilution is a non is due for me. Your short trek is different. You've got a couple options the way I see it.
You can shorten the interval or go for an hour long highway run every couple weeks to evaporate and accumulation. Figure out which is cheaper as in is the oil cheaper to change or is the fuel cheaper to burn on a highway run.
Either way will work. Personally if it was warmer out or I had a heated shop I'd change the oil but since it's too cold for much wrench turning it may be easier to just drive it and burn off the accumulation.
Yeah, I agree. Thing about my truck is that it would literally be more expensive to do the highway runs every couple weeks than it would be to just do an oil change with dino on short intervals. So thats why I'm just gonna shorten my interval from 3,000 miles regardless of time to six months regardless of mileage.
Changing oil in the cold sucks, no doubt. Thats why I'm choosing March and September as my OCI dates. Six months apart but warm enough to change it outside.
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Originally Posted By: Clevy
OP
Your vehicle is an appliance meant to serve its owner. PERIOD.
If you want to idle it for 2 hours go ahead. When its -35c outside my car idles for at least half an hour and the heated seats still aren't warm,but the oil is at 180f and its blowing hot air. The windows are clear and I'm comfortable. And that's what matters.
I'm not sure the answer to your question though.
Good to know somebody around here sees things the way I do. People telling me to walk to prevent fuel dilution? Why own a vehicle then??
Exactly.
My commute is 40 miles each way. Fuel dilution is a non is due for me. Your short trek is different. You've got a couple options the way I see it.
You can shorten the interval or go for an hour long highway run every couple weeks to evaporate and accumulation. Figure out which is cheaper as in is the oil cheaper to change or is the fuel cheaper to burn on a highway run.
Either way will work. Personally if it was warmer out or I had a heated shop I'd change the oil but since it's too cold for much wrench turning it may be easier to just drive it and burn off the accumulation.
Yeah, I agree. Thing about my truck is that it would literally be more expensive to do the highway runs every couple weeks than it would be to just do an oil change with dino on short intervals. So thats why I'm just gonna shorten my interval from 3,000 miles regardless of time to six months regardless of mileage.
Changing oil in the cold sucks, no doubt. Thats why I'm choosing March and September as my OCI dates. Six months apart but warm enough to change it outside.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Originally Posted By: Clevy
OP
Your vehicle is an appliance meant to serve its owner. PERIOD.
If you want to idle it for 2 hours go ahead. When its -35c outside my car idles for at least half an hour and the heated seats still aren't warm,but the oil is at 180f and its blowing hot air. The windows are clear and I'm comfortable. And that's what matters.
I'm not sure the answer to your question though.
Good to know somebody around here sees things the way I do. People telling me to walk to prevent fuel dilution? Why own a vehicle then??
I don't think anyone is truly implying to suffer specifically to protect your vehicle. But if my drive was really only two minutes, chances are it's like a 10 minute walk; and so some of us still can see different approaches,mor see this as a waste, and say so, that's why it's a discussion forum. No reason to get all torqued just because others might disagree on some things.
I can't remember the last time my windows really fogged up! And I drive right off in the cold, without needing to wastefuly idle for minutes to stay warm or clear...
Originally Posted By: Clevy
OP
Your vehicle is an appliance meant to serve its owner. PERIOD.
If you want to idle it for 2 hours go ahead. When its -35c outside my car idles for at least half an hour and the heated seats still aren't warm,but the oil is at 180f and its blowing hot air. The windows are clear and I'm comfortable. And that's what matters.
I'm not sure the answer to your question though.
Good to know somebody around here sees things the way I do. People telling me to walk to prevent fuel dilution? Why own a vehicle then??
I don't think anyone is truly implying to suffer specifically to protect your vehicle. But if my drive was really only two minutes, chances are it's like a 10 minute walk; and so some of us still can see different approaches,mor see this as a waste, and say so, that's why it's a discussion forum. No reason to get all torqued just because others might disagree on some things.
I can't remember the last time my windows really fogged up! And I drive right off in the cold, without needing to wastefuly idle for minutes to stay warm or clear...
I wonder if you would be able to shorted that to yearly OCIs with synthetic? I don't know your engine well, but I would assume 1000 mi during the first six warm months would be relatively easy, even with short trips. I guess a UOA would be helpful then, but for the price, you could just swap the oil!
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Originally Posted By: Clevy
OP
Your vehicle is an appliance meant to serve its owner. PERIOD.
If you want to idle it for 2 hours go ahead. When its -35c outside my car idles for at least half an hour and the heated seats still aren't warm,but the oil is at 180f and its blowing hot air. The windows are clear and I'm comfortable. And that's what matters.
I'm not sure the answer to your question though.
Good to know somebody around here sees things the way I do. People telling me to walk to prevent fuel dilution? Why own a vehicle then??
I don't think anyone is truly implying to suffer specifically to protect your vehicle. But if my drive was really only two minutes, chances are it's like a 10 minute walk; and so some of us still can see different approaches,mor see this as a waste, and say so, that's why it's a discussion forum. No reason to get all torqued just because others might disagree on some things.
I can't remember the last time my windows really fogged up! And I drive right off in the cold, without needing to wastefuly idle for minutes to stay warm or clear...
My windows are frosty on the outside and severely fogged up on the inside every single morning. If the vents aren't blowing hot air I wipe the inside of the windshield with my hand and then it keeps fogging right back up again. Its literally not safe to drive it like that.
It'd be about a 20 minute walk (figure a seven minute mile RUN is decent, so at nearly two miles walking it adds up) and I don't know how anybody can suggest walking 20 minutes in 2 degree weather, on the side of the road, except the side of the road is a wall of snow from the plows so you'd have to walk IN the road, in the dark, at 6:00 in the morning, in often snow or freezing rain conditions. I don't work in a city and there are no sidewalks for a lot of the commute. I own a vehicle so I can drive it, not sacrifice my own wellbeing so it can sit safe at home while I suffer.
You must have misread my OP. Commute is a hair under two miles, not two minutes.
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Originally Posted By: Clevy
OP
Your vehicle is an appliance meant to serve its owner. PERIOD.
If you want to idle it for 2 hours go ahead. When its -35c outside my car idles for at least half an hour and the heated seats still aren't warm,but the oil is at 180f and its blowing hot air. The windows are clear and I'm comfortable. And that's what matters.
I'm not sure the answer to your question though.
Good to know somebody around here sees things the way I do. People telling me to walk to prevent fuel dilution? Why own a vehicle then??
I don't think anyone is truly implying to suffer specifically to protect your vehicle. But if my drive was really only two minutes, chances are it's like a 10 minute walk; and so some of us still can see different approaches,mor see this as a waste, and say so, that's why it's a discussion forum. No reason to get all torqued just because others might disagree on some things.
I can't remember the last time my windows really fogged up! And I drive right off in the cold, without needing to wastefuly idle for minutes to stay warm or clear...
My windows are frosty on the outside and severely fogged up on the inside every single morning. If the vents aren't blowing hot air I wipe the inside of the windshield with my hand and then it keeps fogging right back up again. Its literally not safe to drive it like that.
It'd be about a 20 minute walk (figure a seven minute mile RUN is decent, so at nearly two miles walking it adds up) and I don't know how anybody can suggest walking 20 minutes in 2 degree weather, on the side of the road, except the side of the road is a wall of snow from the plows so you'd have to walk IN the road, in the dark, at 6:00 in the morning, in often snow or freezing rain conditions. I don't work in a city and there are no sidewalks for a lot of the commute. I own a vehicle so I can drive it, not sacrifice my own wellbeing so it can sit safe at home while I suffer.
You must have misread my OP. Commute is a hair under two miles, not two minutes.
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Originally Posted By: EdwardC
I wonder if you would be able to shorted that to yearly OCIs with synthetic? I don't know your engine well, but I would assume 1000 mi during the first six warm months would be relatively easy, even with short trips. I guess a UOA would be helpful then, but for the price, you could just swap the oil!
Good point! I've thought about synthetic and longer OCIs but fuel and moisture are going to ruin a synthetic just the same anyway so it doesn't seem to matter. I agree with you about UOAs though, waste of money when you can just change the oil altogether with the same money. I'm not worried about seeing wear metals or anything for my engine.
I wonder if you would be able to shorted that to yearly OCIs with synthetic? I don't know your engine well, but I would assume 1000 mi during the first six warm months would be relatively easy, even with short trips. I guess a UOA would be helpful then, but for the price, you could just swap the oil!
Good point! I've thought about synthetic and longer OCIs but fuel and moisture are going to ruin a synthetic just the same anyway so it doesn't seem to matter. I agree with you about UOAs though, waste of money when you can just change the oil altogether with the same money. I'm not worried about seeing wear metals or anything for my engine.
Cheese....I and another suggested, in response to your ENGINE'S health, not yours, that you start out sooner than a 10min idle, and make your morning drive to work LONGER to get the engine to a good hot/operating temperature...
....But you didn't respond to this simple alternative...why not?
....But you didn't respond to this simple alternative...why not?
He did respond,... it would cost him more to drive around than to just change the oil.
Just get the cheapest oil on sale and dump it when it's dirty. Not always the ideal situation but a person has to do what fits.
Maybe he could just sleep in the parking lot at work then he could just wake up in the morning and he'd be there.
The boss would be very impressed. Eventually he could set up a tent and barbeque.
Just get the cheapest oil on sale and dump it when it's dirty. Not always the ideal situation but a person has to do what fits.
Maybe he could just sleep in the parking lot at work then he could just wake up in the morning and he'd be there.
The boss would be very impressed. Eventually he could set up a tent and barbeque.
Originally Posted By: datech
He did respond,... it would cost him more to drive around than to just change the oil.
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
I have a TBI Chevy. These are known for fuel dilution as it is.
So what do you guys think? Ridiculous to drain at just over 1000 miles or completely rational to drain potentally fuel and moisture contaminated dino twice a year?
No....nothing in the OP was there a mention of cost....only effectiveness...
He did respond,... it would cost him more to drive around than to just change the oil.
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
I have a TBI Chevy. These are known for fuel dilution as it is.
So what do you guys think? Ridiculous to drain at just over 1000 miles or completely rational to drain potentally fuel and moisture contaminated dino twice a year?
No....nothing in the OP was there a mention of cost....only effectiveness...
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Many think the motorsports I'm into are wasteful, but I don't go to bars, I don't smoke, and I live within my means. I spend my money on toys(well, and kids too). Having a vehicle that sees more severe service than just about anyone here with UOA backed minimal fuel dilution, here's my advice:
Let it idle if you want, it's your money, gas, and vehicle. More importantly, it's your comfort.
Quaker State conventional 5W30 - twice a year
Purolator Classic filter
Done.
Let it idle if you want, it's your money, gas, and vehicle. More importantly, it's your comfort.
Quaker State conventional 5W30 - twice a year
Purolator Classic filter
Done.
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Many think the motorsports I'm into are wasteful, but I don't go to bars, I don't smoke, and I live within my means. I spend my money on toys(well, and kids too). Having a vehicle that sees more severe service than just about anyone here with UOA backed minimal fuel dilution, here's my advice:
Let it idle if you want, it's your money, gas, and vehicle. More importantly, it's your comfort.
Quaker State conventional 5W30 - twice a year
Purolator Classic filter
Done.
Why a 5w grade oil when the temp is down to -bloodyfreezing?
Why not a 0w grade semi/synth in the winter and change to a 5w grade in the summer?
I'm under the illusion that for anything below freezing, the lower the w grade the better, plus perhaps the better flow at lower temps may help with heat up?
Many think the motorsports I'm into are wasteful, but I don't go to bars, I don't smoke, and I live within my means. I spend my money on toys(well, and kids too). Having a vehicle that sees more severe service than just about anyone here with UOA backed minimal fuel dilution, here's my advice:
Let it idle if you want, it's your money, gas, and vehicle. More importantly, it's your comfort.
Quaker State conventional 5W30 - twice a year
Purolator Classic filter
Done.
Why a 5w grade oil when the temp is down to -bloodyfreezing?
Why not a 0w grade semi/synth in the winter and change to a 5w grade in the summer?
I'm under the illusion that for anything below freezing, the lower the w grade the better, plus perhaps the better flow at lower temps may help with heat up?
Originally Posted By: BertieBlue
Why a 5w grade oil when the temp is down to -bloodyfreezing?
Why not a 0w grade semi/synth in the winter and change to a 5w grade in the summer?
I'm under the illusion that for anything below freezing, the lower the w grade the better, plus perhaps the better flow at lower temps may help with heat up?
A 5W30 is perfectly suited for his temperature. Besides that, I don't think he's interested in a synthetic 0W30 as he'd like to change it more often. I live in Western Mass and it's been colder and my vehicles with 5W30 conventional have always cranked and started just fine. Personally, I work and play outside and single digit temps aren't that cold, especially compared to our friends in the upper mid west and Canada.
Regarding warm up, I see no perceptible difference in the two viscosities at that temp.
I got a chuckle out of "-bloodyfreezing".
Why a 5w grade oil when the temp is down to -bloodyfreezing?
Why not a 0w grade semi/synth in the winter and change to a 5w grade in the summer?
I'm under the illusion that for anything below freezing, the lower the w grade the better, plus perhaps the better flow at lower temps may help with heat up?
A 5W30 is perfectly suited for his temperature. Besides that, I don't think he's interested in a synthetic 0W30 as he'd like to change it more often. I live in Western Mass and it's been colder and my vehicles with 5W30 conventional have always cranked and started just fine. Personally, I work and play outside and single digit temps aren't that cold, especially compared to our friends in the upper mid west and Canada.
Regarding warm up, I see no perceptible difference in the two viscosities at that temp.
I got a chuckle out of "-bloodyfreezing".
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Originally Posted By: Clevy
OP
Your vehicle is an appliance meant to serve its owner. PERIOD.
If you want to idle it for 2 hours go ahead. When its -35c outside my car idles for at least half an hour and the heated seats still aren't warm,but the oil is at 180f and its blowing hot air. The windows are clear and I'm comfortable. And that's what matters.
I'm not sure the answer to your question though.
Good to know somebody around here sees things the way I do. People telling me to walk to prevent fuel dilution? Why own a vehicle then??
I don't think anyone is truly implying to suffer specifically to protect your vehicle. But if my drive was really only two minutes, chances are it's like a 10 minute walk; and so some of us still can see different approaches,mor see this as a waste, and say so, that's why it's a discussion forum. No reason to get all torqued just because others might disagree on some things.
I can't remember the last time my windows really fogged up! And I drive right off in the cold, without needing to wastefuly idle for minutes to stay warm or clear...
My windows are frosty on the outside and severely fogged up on the inside every single morning. If the vents aren't blowing hot air I wipe the inside of the windshield with my hand and then it keeps fogging right back up again. Its literally not safe to drive it like that.
It'd be about a 20 minute walk (figure a seven minute mile RUN is decent, so at nearly two miles walking it adds up) and I don't know how anybody can suggest walking 20 minutes in 2 degree weather, on the side of the road, except the side of the road is a wall of snow from the plows so you'd have to walk IN the road, in the dark, at 6:00 in the morning, in often snow or freezing rain conditions. I don't work in a city and there are no sidewalks for a lot of the commute. I own a vehicle so I can drive it, not sacrifice my own wellbeing so it can sit safe at home while I suffer.
You must have misread my OP. Commute is a hair under two miles, not two minutes.
Frankly, given your comments,you've had it all figured out from the start with zero alternatives, so I'm starting to fail to see why you would even ask. Either change the oil out at 3/3000 or some short interval per the om or do it right and pull a UOA in the winter and see.
My wife has a two mile commute, my mother a five block commute. We've checked with UOA to Id how to proceed and have never had any issues. Then again, we've also never had some dire situation where apparently the windows are always fogged and frozen in the winter. Neither has a block heater though in hindsight it would have been smart for both. I may install one into the vw. I can't remember the last time our windows were fogged up to be honest. I know it sometimes happens and it is annoying when it does, but it certainly isn't typical. If yours is typical, I'd be looking into where water is pooling/leaking to cause it. I once had an old Mercedes that would fog the windows when the heat was first put on due to some sort of a slow seepage.
Key is to fix it if any issues exist, if you're actually concerned about longevity and safety.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Originally Posted By: Clevy
OP
Your vehicle is an appliance meant to serve its owner. PERIOD.
If you want to idle it for 2 hours go ahead. When its -35c outside my car idles for at least half an hour and the heated seats still aren't warm,but the oil is at 180f and its blowing hot air. The windows are clear and I'm comfortable. And that's what matters.
I'm not sure the answer to your question though.
Good to know somebody around here sees things the way I do. People telling me to walk to prevent fuel dilution? Why own a vehicle then??
I don't think anyone is truly implying to suffer specifically to protect your vehicle. But if my drive was really only two minutes, chances are it's like a 10 minute walk; and so some of us still can see different approaches,mor see this as a waste, and say so, that's why it's a discussion forum. No reason to get all torqued just because others might disagree on some things.
I can't remember the last time my windows really fogged up! And I drive right off in the cold, without needing to wastefuly idle for minutes to stay warm or clear...
My windows are frosty on the outside and severely fogged up on the inside every single morning. If the vents aren't blowing hot air I wipe the inside of the windshield with my hand and then it keeps fogging right back up again. Its literally not safe to drive it like that.
It'd be about a 20 minute walk (figure a seven minute mile RUN is decent, so at nearly two miles walking it adds up) and I don't know how anybody can suggest walking 20 minutes in 2 degree weather, on the side of the road, except the side of the road is a wall of snow from the plows so you'd have to walk IN the road, in the dark, at 6:00 in the morning, in often snow or freezing rain conditions. I don't work in a city and there are no sidewalks for a lot of the commute. I own a vehicle so I can drive it, not sacrifice my own wellbeing so it can sit safe at home while I suffer.
You must have misread my OP. Commute is a hair under two miles, not two minutes.
Frankly, given your comments,you've had it all figured out from the start with zero alternatives, so I'm starting to fail to see why you would even ask. Either change the oil out at 3/3000 or some short interval per the om or do it right and pull a UOA in the winter and see.
My wife has a two mile commute, my mother a five block commute. We've checked with UOA to Id how to proceed and have never had any issues. Then again, we've also never had some dire situation where apparently the windows are always fogged and frozen in the winter. Neither has a block heater though in hindsight it would have been smart for both. I may install one into the vw. I can't remember the last time our windows were fogged up to be honest. I know it sometimes happens and it is annoying when it does, but it certainly isn't typical. If yours is typical, I'd be looking into where water is pooling/leaking to cause it. I once had an old Mercedes that would fog the windows when the heat was first put on due to some sort of a slow seepage.
Key is to fix it if any issues exist, if you're actually concerned about longevity and safety.
Thats a good point, my old car would fog up all the time, regardless of weather. I used to get wet feet when driving!
The new car is (afaik) watertight and has yet to fog up bar once when i got in it soaking wet, but the inbuilt windscreen heater killed the fog in about a minute. I never realised how bad it was until i got the new car.....
The new car is (afaik) watertight and has yet to fog up bar once when i got in it soaking wet, but the inbuilt windscreen heater killed the fog in about a minute. I never realised how bad it was until i got the new car.....
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
I'll never understand the, "Car is more important than the person" mentality. Let the engine tough it out.
Yeah. It's just a machine..It should be serving us..People would actually walk to work in the dead of winter or drive shivering in order to coddle a hunk of metal?
I'll never understand the, "Car is more important than the person" mentality. Let the engine tough it out.
Yeah. It's just a machine..It should be serving us..People would actually walk to work in the dead of winter or drive shivering in order to coddle a hunk of metal?
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: stenerson
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
I'll never understand the, "Car is more important than the person" mentality. Let the engine tough it out.
Yeah. It's just a machine..It should be serving us..People would actually walk to work in the dead of winter or drive shivering in order to coddle a hunk of metal?
Thus my comment about being soft. I'm not trying to coddle inanimate machines, but putting on an extra layer or a hat and gloves is no big deal, versus an hour of idling a week (per the OP) for a two minute drive. I hate to smell exhaust for the few seconds or a minute if were loading the car under really cold conditions... To spew an hours worth of junk in the air is just incredible when there are better ways to do it. That's not an environmentalist or tree-hugging perspective, but rather the fact that cold engine exhaust stinks and it's rather rude to spew it out for others to have to breathe, when the end result is more hassle/work/cost for the OP.
In the end it's his vehicle, and his mind was made up. If he wanted to be rigorous, he would look at data and find the GPH fuel draw and see how much it was costing, and put that in the mix. And then do a UOA and see specifically how much fuel and water is going in, and set an OCI for that. Were all just speculating without running the experiment. Or you can make the experiment moot by manually clearing windows, wearing another layer, and fixing the water leak and/or cooling system issue that causes the fogging. Even recently when it has been around zero, we haven't had any real issues. And, everyone knows that a car heats up really poorly and inefficiently when not loaded. The amount of waste heat to dump to coolant is FAR lower, like 10-100x lower than if driving with load.
So if the experiment isn't going to be run, change often, perhaps even put something super cheap in like ST, for the winter and then dump it as moisture is observed, often you can see signs of it on the dipstick...
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
I'll never understand the, "Car is more important than the person" mentality. Let the engine tough it out.
Yeah. It's just a machine..It should be serving us..People would actually walk to work in the dead of winter or drive shivering in order to coddle a hunk of metal?
Thus my comment about being soft. I'm not trying to coddle inanimate machines, but putting on an extra layer or a hat and gloves is no big deal, versus an hour of idling a week (per the OP) for a two minute drive. I hate to smell exhaust for the few seconds or a minute if were loading the car under really cold conditions... To spew an hours worth of junk in the air is just incredible when there are better ways to do it. That's not an environmentalist or tree-hugging perspective, but rather the fact that cold engine exhaust stinks and it's rather rude to spew it out for others to have to breathe, when the end result is more hassle/work/cost for the OP.
In the end it's his vehicle, and his mind was made up. If he wanted to be rigorous, he would look at data and find the GPH fuel draw and see how much it was costing, and put that in the mix. And then do a UOA and see specifically how much fuel and water is going in, and set an OCI for that. Were all just speculating without running the experiment. Or you can make the experiment moot by manually clearing windows, wearing another layer, and fixing the water leak and/or cooling system issue that causes the fogging. Even recently when it has been around zero, we haven't had any real issues. And, everyone knows that a car heats up really poorly and inefficiently when not loaded. The amount of waste heat to dump to coolant is FAR lower, like 10-100x lower than if driving with load.
So if the experiment isn't going to be run, change often, perhaps even put something super cheap in like ST, for the winter and then dump it as moisture is observed, often you can see signs of it on the dipstick...
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