All Weather Tires for Crosstrek?

[UG_Passat]

The problem with that designation is that the most brutal winters, with the highest mountains (by far), are in Central to West Europe, the Alps and Southern Alps. It is a mixed bag with tires. You have numerous tires aimed at that market that have far better properties in snow than what Nokian refers as Nordic tires. I would not say that TS is anything less capable than VC. I owned VC7, and numerous models of TS, starting with, I think, TS780 or something like that, some 20yrs ago. However, they ain't cheap, which is where the real difference is. TS or Good Year Ultra Grip for the European market, were and still are my favorite snow tires, as they do everything really, really well.

Wrong, I have numerous times said the Central European tire market (not the Alps or polar region) makes a trade-off, exchanging deep snow and ice grip for better cold-dry and cold-wet performance, since the winters are more mild and hover around the freezing cold.

Tire companies recognize there is not a one-tire-fits-all of Europe winter tire. That’s why they have different winter tires for different winter markets

 

[edyvw]

Wrong, I have numerous times said the Central European tire market (not the Alps or polar region) makes a trade-off, exchanging deep snow and ice grip for better cold-dry and cold-wet performance, since the winters are more mild and hover around the freezing cold.

Tire companies recognize there is not a one-tire-fits-all of Europe winter tire. That’s why they have different winter tires for different winter markets

Considering I was born in Southern Alps, and spent majority of my life there and Alps in general, where tire market is flooded by Continental TS etc. tell me more about it?
I had more than 30 winter tires with what Nokian calls “Central European “ and majority were far better performing than Nokian R2 I had, for example.
Can you find some that are not good? Absolutely. I had Hankook W300 there, and my Nordica skis have better traction than what those tires had.

 

[UG_Passat]

Considering I was born in Southern Alps, and spent majority of my life there and Alps in general, where tire market is flooded by Continental TS etc. tell me more about it?
I had more than 30 winter tires with what Nokian calls “Central European “ and majority were far better performing than Nokian R2 I had, for example.
Can you find some that are not good? Absolutely. I had Hankook W300 there, and my Nordica skis have better traction than what those tires had.

So, you lived in the Southern Alps. Considering the Southern Alps have more mild conditions than the high elevation alps, it sounds like the Central European tire was more appropriate tires than a Nordic tire that would be better suited in the higher elevation Alps that gets dumped with snow. You're argument is useless, because you don't reveal the important part of the argument, as it doesn't support your narrative.

Again, your ski analogy does not work. A ski with a lot of traction, is a slow ski, and you're working harder to get down the mountain, because it's tuned wrong for the conditions.

Like I said, different market tires have different design parameters. In a free market, consumers have the choice to buy tires not optimized for conditions. Skis have different categories for different riding conditions and an "all-season tire" equivalent. You can buy essentially snowboards for each foot, but they are probably not the best skis for hardpack groomers. Conversely, the skinny skis may not be the best for deep fresh powder. Can you make it down? Yes, but you probably won't enjoy the runs as much.

I have driven the Hankook W300 tires in blizzards without issues.... but one can drive the car with winter tires too fast for the conditions and crash, but it must be the tire's fault. Did it grip the road when the road was cold and dry and cold and wet? Oh yes, especially when my commute at one time from a ski hill to work was all curvy backroads. The more serious nordic winter tires I had previously, had a off-putting giggly feeling due to the tread compound and design.

If one of the top tier companies have figured that out and made it relatively affordable, they would be the king of winter tires with large profit margins.

 

[edyvw]

So, you lived in the Southern Alps. Considering the Southern Alps have more mild conditions than the high elevation alps, it sounds like the Central European tire was more appropriate tires than a Nordic tire that would be better suited in the higher elevation Alps that gets dumped with snow. You're argument is useless, because you don't reveal the important part of the argument, as it doesn't support your narrative.

Again, your ski analogy does not work. A ski with a lot of traction, is a slow ski, and you're working harder to get down the mountain, because it's tuned wrong for the conditions.

Like I said, different market tires have different design parameters. In a free market, consumers have the choice to buy tires not optimized for conditions. Skis have different categories for different riding conditions and an "all-season tire" equivalent. You can buy essentially snowboards for each foot, but they are probably not the best skis for hardpack groomers. Conversely, the skinny skis may not be the best for deep fresh powder. Can you make it down? Yes, but you probably won't enjoy the runs as much.

I have driven the Hankook W300 tires in blizzards without issues.... but one can drive the car with winter tires too fast for the conditions and crash, but it must be the tire's fault. Did it grip the road when the road was cold and dry and cold and wet? Oh yes, especially when my commute at one time from a ski hill to work was all curvy backroads. The more serious nordic winter tires I had previously, had a off-putting giggly feeling due to the tread compound and design.

If one of the top tier companies have figured that out and made it relatively affordable, they would be the king of winter tires with large profit margins.

Lol, micro climate doesn’t work like that.
Souther Alps have some of the coldest temperatures in Europe.
Also, what you called high elevation Alps, are mostly located in Central Europe and Partly Western precisely where Nokian aims that tire. Of course, many other manufacturers offers and offered long before Nokian (Nokian was not common brand in most important markets in Europe until like 15yrs ago) various tire designs.
Also, what is really important here is that you take skiing analogy seriously.

 

[SeaJay]

Having drived an outback for 7 or 8 winter seasons in the northeast, I found that just about any all season tire on that car performed very, very well on ice and snow. Presumably there are some better, but it is hard to go wrong with that version of AWD.

 

[krzyss]

Even braking or steering?

Krzyś

 

[4strokes]

Having drived an outback for 7 or 8 winter seasons in the northeast, I found that just about any all season tire on that car performed very, very well on ice and snow. Presumably there are some better, but it is hard to go wrong with that version of AWD.

Going forward in an AWD vehicle with all seasons can be fine but stopping distances can be night and day compared to a snow tire.

 

[IndyIan]

Even braking or steering?

Krzyś

We ran the new OE all seasons for the last 1/3 of winter in 2019 on our Outback, and I was surprised how good they were compared to even 1/3 worn all seasons I've had in the past, and not far off or equal to a winter tire down at 6-7/32. Maybe on glare ice the all season would be much worse, but its rare we actually drive in those conditions.
The right snow tire in deep slush or deep snow is much better, but lot of winter tires that are going for ice traction, aren't very good in those conditions. Our Xice2's at 7-8/32 aren't that great in the deep stuff either I find, just too much tread and not enough air space to work well in those conditions. They are good on ice and hardpacked snow, and run like an all-season on the hwy which is why I got them.

 

[Quattro Pete]

We ran the new OE all seasons for the last 1/3 of winter in 2019 on our Outback, and I was surprised how good they were compared to even 1/3 worn all seasons I've had in the past, and not far off or equal to a winter tire down at 6-7/32.

What were your OE tires?

The OE tires on mine are Falken ZE001 which are ranked very poorly for winter driving by pretty much everyone.

 

[andrew_j]

Michelin CC2 are slow wearing, quiet, handle decently, and respectable on snowy roads.

Nokian WR(xxxx) work well however if you don’t rotate or wear funny get louder than a normal tire as if you driving a tractor.

 

[slug_bug]

I did look at CC2, but I just can't get convinced their tread pattern is a good recipe for snow and ice, alas, I have not been able to find any test results comparing their performance to the other three tires I mentioned, so I may be wrong. I've also read the CC2 is rather noisy.

The tread pattern is a good recipe for snow/ice. I put CC2's on my RX350 a couple of years ago. They handled the Michigan winter better than any of the many all season tires I've run while living in MI most of my life. To me, there wasn't any increase in noise over the OEM Michelin's installed on the RX.

 

[IndyIan]

What were your OE tires?

The OE tires on mine are Falken ZE001 which are ranked very poorly for winter driving by pretty much everyone.

Bridgestone Dueler H/P Sport AS in 225/65/17, I read the same about them too, that they are so bad, and almost took them off to start, but I find there's nothing really wrong with them? Not good in mud or wet grass, but AWD has covered our minor off roading. Tirerack likes them too, so I tried them and they seemed quite good really. OE is a narrower T speed rated version, 6.6" tread width vs the 7.7" width of the H rated version in the same size tire.
They also seem to keep up with the chassis in the dry when pushing a little in the corners, so good enough IMO, just quite expensive for some reason?.

 

[Astro14]

Having drived an outback for 7 or 8 winter seasons in the northeast, I found that just about any all season tire on that car performed very, very well on ice and snow. Presumably there are some better, but it is hard to go wrong with that version of AWD.

Sigh…another Subaru driver who believes that AWD helps them stop and turn.

I used to see crashed Subies all the time when I lived in Vermont. Once, I saw two crashes, on the same day, in the same spot on my road. They were both going downhill, they both slid off the road and hit the same tree. Later that day I watched a Subie crash trying to get up the same hill. He kept too much speed and slid sideways into the snowbank at the bottom of the road. The road, by the way, was Birch Hill Road, in Stowe.

The Subies that I saw wrecked had two things in common -

1. Flatlander plates.
2. All season tires.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Bridgestone Dueler H/P Sport AS in 225/65/17, I read the same about them too, that they are so bad, and almost took them off to start, but I find there's nothing really wrong with them? Not good in mud or wet grass, but AWD has covered our minor off roading. Tirerack likes them too, so I tried them and they seemed quite good really. OE is a narrower T speed rated version, 6.6" tread width vs the 7.7" width of the H rated version in the same size tire.
They also seem to keep up with the chassis in the dry when pushing a little in the corners, so good enough IMO, just quite expensive for some reason?.

The video I saw on it was they liked it for the handling and wet. They didn't show snow.

My experience was that at 3 days old on a '19 Pilot my wife couldn't stop going down a hill coming home the 2 miles from work and almost wrecked it. Then she had a real hard time getting back up the hill on the other side. She came home crying wanting to trade it back in with less than 100 miles on it. I put Continental WinterContact Si on it a couple days later and she has no issue going in snow and ice, feels comfortable and tells her friends that complain about no winter grip in their SUV's. The real kicker was when I put them back on in the spring. She commented how noisy it was as compared to the winter tires. They rode ok handled rain well but are known to wear very quick also on the Pilot. I sold them and put Defender LTX M/S on it instead for 3 season.

 

[Kalle.J]

Never gotten stuck with a FWD in snow.
But I also learned to drive in the CRX, lacking both abs and stability control with really old studded winters

No all season that have been worn one/couple of summers will have good traction on snow/ice compared to a normal winter.
Michelin CC2 might be the exeption here since it has minimal amount of siping, but regardless doubt the square edges will remain/retain their shape.

Winters with one step higher profile and one size narrower

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Sigh…another Subaru driver who believes that AWD helps them stop and turn.

I used to see crashed Subies all the time when I lived in Vermont. Once, I saw two crashes, on the same day, in the same spot on my road. They were both going downhill, they both slid off the road and hit the same tree. Later that day I watched a Subie crash trying to get up the same hill. He kept too much speed and slid sideways into the snowbank at the bottom of the road. The road, by the way, was Birch Hill Road, in Stowe.

The Subies that I saw wrecked had two things in common -

1. Flatlander plates.
2. All season tires.

And as has been said by many, AWD and 4WD is EXCELLENT at getting you in trouble faster and further from help.

My kids got to experience, AWD, 4WD, FWD and RWD with good all seasons and true winter all on the same day on my street. I had the winters on rims for all. Knew it was going to snow so waited a day for them to learn. They know winter tires are not magic or defy physics but 30ft shorter stopping at less than 30mph was enough to convince them.

After that my kids went to "play" in the parking lots. Daughters boyfriend in his parents 4WD Grand Cherokee tried also. Worn all seasons, wouldn't listen to what I told him (or my daughter). Teenage boy. Tried to follow my daughter in her CRV with 4 VC7's. She had no issue, he slid sideways into the curb. Bent the rim and some other parts, tire came unmounted from bead, impact broke window track, window fell and shattered. He's not around anymore either.

 

[edyvw]

Sigh…another Subaru driver who believes that AWD helps them stop and turn.

I used to see crashed Subies all the time when I lived in Vermont. Once, I saw two crashes, on the same day, in the same spot on my road. They were both going downhill, they both slid off the road and hit the same tree. Later that day I watched a Subie crash trying to get up the same hill. He kept too much speed and slid sideways into the snowbank at the bottom of the road. The road, by the way, was Birch Hill Road, in Stowe.

The Subies that I saw wrecked had two things in common -

1. Flatlander plates.
2. All season tires.

Subaru in the rearview mirror means only one thing: downshift and run away.

 

[totegoat]

I'm considering Bridgestone Dueler H/L 422 Ecopia for my 4-wd Highlander.

 

[IndyIan]

The video I saw on it was they liked it for the handling and wet. They didn't show snow.

My experience was that at 3 days old on a '19 Pilot my wife couldn't stop going down a hill coming home the 2 miles from work and almost wrecked it. Then she had a real hard time getting back up the hill on the other side. She came home crying wanting to trade it back in with less than 100 miles on it. I put Continental WinterContact Si on it a couple days later and she has no issue going in snow and ice, feels comfortable and tells her friends that complain about no winter grip in their SUV's. The real kicker was when I put them back on in the spring. She commented how noisy it was as compared to the winter tires. They rode ok handled rain well but are known to wear very quick also on the Pilot. I sold them and put Defender LTX M/S on it instead for 3 season.

View attachment 177186

Yeah, for the Pilot, the OE version for the 18" wheel option is actually a bit wider than the normal version at 7.9", which is probably less happy cutting through snow/slush than the pizza cutters on our Outback? And I notice the Outback doesn't have as much rear toe in or negative camber as many of SUVs so it tends to track quite straight in variable traction conditions or accross broken pavement, and the wear down to 3-4/32 they are at now, is remarkably even with the 45-50k miles on them now. We never drove them in snow again since the first 3-4k miles, but my wife wasn't overly impressed with the new Xice2's we put on for the second winter, a winter rally stage tire, they certainly are not!

It's funny I look at the ratings you posted and I totally agree with them in my experience, seems like a good OE tire? Good in wet/dry and comfort/noise, not great tread life but 5 years for us is a decent run. I won't pay a premium to buy them again, but I might look for someone ditching them off their new Outback for a deep discount.

 

[edyvw]

Having drived an outback for 7 or 8 winter seasons in the northeast, I found that just about any all season tire on that car performed very, very well on ice and snow. Presumably there are some better, but it is hard to go wrong with that version of AWD.

So enlighten us, those who do not know, what AWD has to do with two MOST important aspects of winter performing vehicle: stopping and handling? How many people died bcs. their car did not go forward fast enough?