5w20 Safe or UnSafe

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
Originally Posted By: AEHaas
I have shown multiple high end cars showing normal or even reduced wear when using thinner grade oils than specified by the manufacturer (2 - 3 grades thinner). Do a search in the used oil section for Maranello and for Enzo as a few examples. Also, read:

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=new_faq_item#faq_haas_articles

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=259902#Post259902

aehaas


can someone sticky this?? i mean, you know in a more current and relevant way in the spirit of a thread like this- way.


Of course he gets away with this daily driving it but Haas also admits to driving the car gently and not tracking it with these oils.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
Originally Posted By: AEHaas
I have shown multiple high end cars showing normal or even reduced wear when using thinner grade oils than specified by the manufacturer (2 - 3 grades thinner). Do a search in the used oil section for Maranello and for Enzo as a few examples. Also, read:

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=new_faq_item#faq_haas_articles

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=259902#Post259902

aehaas


can someone sticky this?? i mean, you know in a more current and relevant way in the spirit of a thread like this- way.


Of course he gets away with this daily driving it but Haas also admits to driving the car gently and not tracking it with these oils.


For normal gental driving maybe the xx-20 oils are better.

Frank D

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Use these cars as they are intended to be used and the engine will last few laps with your 0w20 or 0w30 oils.


Would this be the same for tracked Vette's that use the OEM spec'd 5w-30 while pushing very high oil temps? I mean ..what's a 0w or few Cst in distinction here

 

[Solo2driver]

I am temporarily running a mix of several brands of 5w-20 conventional oils in the Escort, just came back from a 340-mile round trip to a race in San Antonio, ran 7 autocross laps in 100+ degree temps. This includes startup, 2 minutes later running for 50 seconds at or near Redline (7300rpm), then shutdown immediately afterwards, hot. Pretty brutal. No extra ticking, no seized motor, etc. I am going to try the AMSOIL Dominator 5w-20 next, after lots of success with the Spec Miata 1.6L and 1.8L engines doing great on Joe Gibbs 10-wt and 20-wt oils with "standard" build tolerances.

You're not going to blow anything up. I think AEHass has really opened a lot of eyes here.

 

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted By: oilyriser
It's much better to get your tribology advice from some random guy on an internet forum...

 

[Audi Junkie]

I'm going with 5w-20 in the old 140k miles CRV this winter and it's not speced for it.

 

[Gary Allan]

Oh, yeah?? Well I'm going through the winter with 0w-10!!!..and it ain't even spec'd for it ...and furthermore I just learned that my crank is sagging because of it!

So there!

 

[Audi Junkie]

Not speced for 0w-10???!

 

[tsmay51]

Someone was curious earlier in the post about Toyotas and 5W20. Our 2007 camry 4 cyl. calls for 5W20 or even 0W20. I have been running gtx 5W20 and the car seems to be performing well. We only have 15k miles so time will tell.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

I thought 5W-20s were enriched with varying proportions of synthetic base?

 

[meep]

My my we are a trendy bunch. 2 years ago we were pulling up honda info from different countries showing how US spec called for 5-20, while foreign spec (same car/motor) called for 5-30, 10-30, 10-40. Same thread also claimed a statement from a Honda insider claiming that 5-20 was CAFE driven, but thicker oils would last longer. Now we are all gently bashing the heavy weights and those that still argue for them.

Me, I use 5-20/0-20. I use in it syn. The few times I used an X-20 dino, it ended the MFR OCI with clackity valve noise and a sluggish feel in the little honda. So I only use syn. We ran 7500 to 10000 mile OCI, depending on the vehicle.

My bottom line - I like X-20, but only in syn, and for full OCI or longer.

M

 

[1sttruck]

5W20 is fine when recommended but typically for longer oil change intervals and/or higher loads thicker oils are preferred. I don't think that such conditions exist in the US, in fact some makers pulled back from longer oil change intervals due to sludging. Also in the US it's funny to see people using thinner oils as they're 'greener', the benefits are minimal to begin with, and then so many also running fashionable extra low profile tires on fancy wheels.


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1153225


http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/automotive/projects/report_co2_reduction.pdf

Review and analysis of the reduction potential and costs of technological and other measures to reduce CO2-emissions from passenger cars
Final Report
October 31, 2006

Overall conclusions

Retrofitting of low rolling resistance tyres has positive costs per avoided tonne CO2-eq., but these abatement costs are somewhat lower than for efficiency improvement of conventional, new cars.

Low-viscosity lubricants used in existing vehicles have higher CO2-abatement costs than retrofitting of low rolling resistance tyres;


5.4.1.3 Fuel efficient lubricants

In Europe, a fuel economy test has been developed using a Mercedes Benz M111 2.0 litre engine. The minimum improvement required when measured in the MIII European fuel economy test engine in order to qualify a low friction, low viscosity, and low HTHS (high temperature high shear) viscosity engine lubricant is 2.5%. Such measurements are made against a conventional lubricant that has not been formulated with friction modifier to reduce frictional losses, is of higher viscosity grading and with a higher HTHS viscosity [ATIEL 2006]. Generally in Europe, the emphasis in lubricant development has been given on durability and not efficiency, since very high speed driving occurs in certain European countries.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
Also in the US it's funny to see people using thinner oils as they're 'greener', the benefits are minimal to begin with, and then so many also running fashionable extra low profile tires on fancy wheels.


This is so true, and you nailed it. If we ARE really concerned about fuel and conservation, we would be driving diesels, electrics, smart cars, etc.

Fuel conserving oils in a heavy truck or SUV is the new lipstick on a pig.

Sooner or later this will backfire, the same way as the fuel efficient gear oils in Ford, Nissan, and GM diffs, that were blowing by thounsands. Interestingly, they were replaced by 75W140 oils now.

 

[dblshock]

I've run the cheapest 5-20 in my '03 accord 85k and 7.5k oci with 15k filter changes from day 1...switched my '97 CRV in '03 as well.. 145k today, also run it in my '89 JD lawn tractor. These engines use no oil, run perfect.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

And that [censored] new fangled fuel injection.. that's gonna backfire someday for sure!

 

[Detroit_Doc]

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
And that [censored] new fangled fuel injection.. that's gonna backfire someday for sure!

Waaaaaa, daymn kids get off my lawn wit your new fangled fuel injection and 5w20 oil, waaaaa. If you daymn kids are still on my lawn after I change my depends there is going to be heck to pay I tell you. In my day we used 500 weight oil, and we liked it!

 

[FrankN4]

I found this in a Google search on viscosity. I agree completely.

"Thinner motor oils such as 5W-20 or even 0W-20 are becoming more popular these days and are even specified by some OEM's (FORD & HONDA)

Although these oils are promoted as "energy conserving" they generally trade a gain of less than 0.1 MPG in Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) for shorter useful engine life.

FORD which has previously designed cars to have 10 year or 150,000 miles life has reduced the mileage life expectation to "beyond 100,000 miles" on vehicles that are operated on SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil.

HONDA only claims "useful life" as 7-years or 70,000 miles in EPA certifications for their CIVIC which uses SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil, while the previous model that utilized SAE 5W-30 Motor Oil was certified for 10 year or 100,000 mile durability.

By contrast Mercedes-Benz recommends use of ONLY Synthetic Motor Oil that is at least SAE 5W-40! This is a recent increase in recommended viscosity from SAE 5W-30. Apparently customer research indicated that engine longevity is more important to typical MB customer than fuel economy."

 

[Detroit_Doc]

My 2008 Jeep Wrangler specs 5w20 and comes with a LIFETIME powertrain warranty.

 

[meep]

That Lifetime warranty likely hedges along the following stipulations.

1. all regular maint must be performed & documented
2. 5 yr dealer inspections (at no cost) within 60 days of purchase anniversary.
3. 1st owner only

The way we trade cars, go lax on maintenance, and forget things in our daily lives, I'd suspect that less than 10% of these vehicles ever take advantage of the warranty. And of those that do, the dealer has made revenues based on regular service on at least some of them.

M

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Although these oils are promoted as "energy conserving" they generally trade a gain of less than 0.1 MPG in Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) for shorter useful engine life.

FORD which has previously designed cars to have 10 year or 150,000 miles life has reduced the mileage life expectation to "beyond 100,000 miles" on vehicles that are operated on SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil.

HONDA only claims "useful life" as 7-years or 70,000 miles in EPA certifications for their CIVIC which uses SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil, while the previous model that utilized SAE 5W-30 Motor Oil was certified for 10 year or 100,000 mile durability.


I'd like to see an official Honda or Ford source that actually published this. Engine life has never been a challenge in automotive longevity ...outside of design flaws for as far back as I can remember. In the 60's they were more powerful ..and the bodies rusted to junk. You could have 3 cylinders dipping their paddle and the other 5 didn't care.

Time kills more chassis than anything. 15-18 years ruins other systems making the car not viable for repair.