2015 Corolla or 2015 Civic CVT??

[dlayman]

Originally Posted By: JTK
Do we know where Toyota and Honda are sourcing their CVTs? I wouldn't be surprised if it was Jacto as opposed to Aisin. Even Subaru's CVT is built by Jatco, specifically for Subaru. Not all Jatcos are the same- by a long shot.

Pretty sure Jatco has the majority of the market in the States for CVT technology.


I know for a fact that Toyota CVT's are made by Aisin. (Toyota owns a chunk of Aisin). I believe Subaru owns a chunk of Jatco as well. Not sure on Honda. In fact if you do some searching on Aisin's site, you can locate the model used in the Corolla. The BIG downside on the Corolla CVT is no dipstick, no drain plug, and and "lifetime" fluid. Condition of the fluid is checked by hooking a computer up to sensors on the CVT.

I owned a Corolla CVT for about six months. I sold it do to ergonomic and comfort concerns, and moved to a Civic 5-speed manual. The Corolla (Eco model, designed for best fuel economy) averaged 47 mpg in the time I owned it (almost all highway driving and conservative). the Civic is averaging 43 under the same conditions, but the Civic has a much more quality feel to it, IMO. Never had any real problems with the Corolla, including the CVT, which I rather liked other than the maintenance issues with it that I mentioned earlier. It did exhibit a lot of rattles and the doors felt and sounded very tinny. The Civic feels more solid and substantial and has yet to produce a rattle. My 05 Civic didn't develop any rattles until about 2013, and has about 300k on it. Count me with those who are very skeptical a CVT will make it to 300k, especially on that lifetime fluid. While relatively simple in operation, it has a lot of sensors and solenoids which can fail

 

[dlayman]

I did a little searching and it APPEARS that the Honda and Nissan CVT's are quite similar, suggesting they MAY be sourced from JATCO. I think a lot of Nissan's problems stemmed from the fact that they put them in some heavy vehicles capable of generating a lot of hp and torque. In a Civic or Corolla, there should be much less stress. Both Honda and Toyota program "shift points" so the car will feel a bit more like a conventional automatic.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: dlayman
... The BIG downside on the Corolla CVT is no dipstick, no drain plug, and and "lifetime" fluid.


Are there any new vehicles in this segment today that have ATF dipsticks and drain plugs? I hear you. No car guy cares for this arrangement, but that's the way it is today.

 

[flinter]

If I do purchase the 2015 Civic with CVT, would it be considered overkill to change the CVT fluid every 50,000 miles if my intention
is to keep the car 10-12 years? I only drive about 12,000 miles a year, so the most mileage I would accumulate would be less than 150,000.

 

[dlayman]

Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: dlayman
... The BIG downside on the Corolla CVT is no dipstick, no drain plug, and and "lifetime" fluid.


Are there any new vehicles in this segment today that have ATF dipsticks and drain plugs? I hear you. No car guy cares for this arrangement, but that's the way it is today.


I was under the impression the "low tech" conventional 4 speed auto in the Corolla has them, but I can't say for sure. That transmission has been around forever, so it may have retained those features.

 

[dlayman]

Originally Posted By: flinter
If I do purchase the 2015 Civic with CVT, would it be considered overkill to change the CVT fluid every 50,000 miles if my intention
is to keep the car 10-12 years with average annual miles of about 11,000?


I don't think it would be overkill at all. In fact, I'd say about every 30k, to be safe. I don't know how hard it is to do on the Civic, but most of these CVT vehicles are extremely sensitive to it being done exactly correctly, over or underfilling can bork it quickly.

 

[cb450sc]

Originally Posted By: 2010Civic
Honda has had a CVT in the civic hybrid since 2001. Almost 15 years, not exactly unproven if you ask me.


In North America, the Civc Hybrid arrived in 2003. My 2003 Hybrid needed a new transmission at 65000 km. I sold it with 300000 km but would never buy a cvt again. I needed to change (expensive) cvt fluid every 15000 km in order to have a smooth shifting car.

 

[oilmaven]

Like it or not, the CVT is probably here to stay. There are obvious efficiency gains or the carmakers that are using them (Toyota, Honda, Subaru) would simply be installing multi-speed automatics (which are still being used in some of their models...). Improvements in the operation (less "rubber-bandy", less engine drone, etc.) of their CVT transmissions have been making them much nicer driving. The alternative to the CVT in new cars is "conventional" automatics with MANY gear ratios (8 speeds are becoming the new normal...6 speeds is the minimum)...and the longevity and reliability of those transmissions with their inherent complexity is still unknown for a few years. In the meantime I appreciate the "manual transmission" advocates and have had my share of them (last was a new 2001 Civic...transmission was great until I had to drive it through summer construction in rush hour traffic every day...). Also, with so few people driving manuals anymore, resale of the vehicle suffers quite a bit...unless you're planning to keep the vehicle until it dies. Inevitably, fewer manual transmission models are available and may go the way of the dinosaur as dual-clutch automated manuals replace them (hopefully better than the ill-conceived Ford unit). Many high end performance cars (Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, etc.) already use them and they are becoming their transmission of choice (manuals being available in some but not all of their models). I know a lot of people that cannot drive a manual...and don't want to learn. The automakers are responding to what the majority of the public drives and are slowly phasing out manual transmissions...though it may take a while. In the meantime, change your fluid (if you can) in whatever transmission you have, drive it reasonably and hope for the best.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Noey
No CVT is "refined" It's all about MPG (and emissions). If you want 'refined', try a Ford Focus or Fiesta//or a Chevy Cruze.

'Twas a time when 'Japanese' meant "Reliable". No more. Just over rated and over priced. And 'unrefined'.

really, go try them.


One of the dumbest and most untrue posts I've ever seen in this forum...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: dlayman
Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: dlayman
... The BIG downside on the Corolla CVT is no dipstick, no drain plug, and and "lifetime" fluid.


Are there any new vehicles in this segment today that have ATF dipsticks and drain plugs? I hear you. No car guy cares for this arrangement, but that's the way it is today.


I was under the impression the "low tech" conventional 4 speed auto in the Corolla has them, but I can't say for sure. That transmission has been around forever, so it may have retained those features.


The 4 speeds do have them...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: flinter
"CVT Junk" huh?? Do you have any experience with the current 2015 CVT transmissions? Have you driven any? That seems like a pretty ignorant comment, if you ask me.
Yeah, CVT junk. They're unproven. My grandmother has a 2012 Jeep Patriot with the CVT, which is the biggest piece of garbage I've ever driven. Yeah it's not a Honda but it's still unproven. I'd buy a CVT car maybe after 2020 after there has been long term trends that prove they're reliable.

Until then, I'll stick to a stick shift or conventional automatic.


The newer 6-8 speed automatics are also unproven....does that mean they're junk too?

 

[glock19]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: flinter
"CVT Junk" huh?? Do you have any experience with the current 2015 CVT transmissions? Have you driven any? That seems like a pretty ignorant comment, if you ask me.
Yeah, CVT junk. They're unproven. My grandmother has a 2012 Jeep Patriot with the CVT, which is the biggest piece of garbage I've ever driven. Yeah it's not a Honda but it's still unproven. I'd buy a CVT car maybe after 2020 after there has been long term trends that prove they're reliable.

Until then, I'll stick to a stick shift or conventional automatic.


The newer 6-8 speed automatics are also unproven....does that mean they're junk too?


Yeah that post doesn't make sense. How can it be junk if it's unproven? If there's not enough data to call it reliable, then how can there be enough to call it unreliable?

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: glock19
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: flinter
"CVT Junk" huh?? Do you have any experience with the current 2015 CVT transmissions? Have you driven any? That seems like a pretty ignorant comment, if you ask me.
Yeah, CVT junk. They're unproven. My grandmother has a 2012 Jeep Patriot with the CVT, which is the biggest piece of garbage I've ever driven. Yeah it's not a Honda but it's still unproven. I'd buy a CVT car maybe after 2020 after there has been long term trends that prove they're reliable.

Until then, I'll stick to a stick shift or conventional automatic.


The newer 6-8 speed automatics are also unproven....does that mean they're junk too?


Yeah that post doesn't make sense. How can it be junk if it's unproven? If there's not enough data to call it reliable, then how can there be enough to call it unreliable?
Because I hear about cars with CVTs failing at 70k, I don't hear about automatics failing at 70-80k. And I wouldn't buy the new 8 speed automatics until they're proven either. 6 speeds aren't that new.

 

[glock19]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: glock19
Yeah that post doesn't make sense. How can it be junk if it's unproven? If there's not enough data to call it reliable, then how can there be enough to call it unreliable?
Because I hear about cars with CVTs failing at 70k, I don't hear about automatics failing at 70-80k. And I wouldn't buy the new 8 speed automatics until they're proven either. 6 speeds aren't that new.


You can't have it both ways. Either they're unproven or they are proven to be junk. Frankly, I think both assessments are incorrect, but that's not the point I'm making.

 

[flinter]

Frankly, I would be stunned if a brand new 2015 Civic's CVT doesnt
last till 150,000 miles with no issues at all.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: flinter
Frankly, I would be stunned if a brand new 2015 Civic's CVT doesnt
last till 150,000 miles with no issues at all.
If I were to only get 150k out of a transmission I'd be very disappointed.

 

[supton]

Me too. I've had brakes last longer.

 

[dlayman]

A "Toyota insider" (for whatever that's worth), mentioned on a Corolla forum that the CVT is designed to last a minimum of 200k miles, according to Toyota engineers. I wonder if that "lifetime" fluid is good for 200k miles? That would be very hard to imagine, although maybe possible if it isn't stressed or overheats? Of course the guy could have been blowing (or inhaling) smoke.

 

[supton]

A review (TTAC?) got the cvt to overheat, iirc.

Won't know until a bunch get bought, and pressed into service. Should have an answer in a few years.

 

[bbhero]

I would suggest your analysis is spot on there. 200k miles is probably the expected life of the CVT fluid before it needs to be changed. On the Nissan site a fella had his CVT fluid analyzed by their scan tool.. Car had 56k miles on it. Per scan it said the fluid had 75% of its life left in it. That would put it easily past 200k miles. Heck my lady's Sunfire never had the transmission fluid changed after 214k miles and it was doing fine. One guy on here has 270k on RAV 4 and he never has changed the fluid in it and its been fine. Coolant and oil are far more important to change on a routine schedule than transmission fluid. Been my experience has well.