2014 WRX Oil

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: bananaman82
So I am about to get my car back this week after a spun bearing at 22000 miles. The dealership and SOA deemed, after 4 months of delegation, that the cause was oil starvation. I disagree. But they are fixing it at no cost to me. The tech told me that Mobil 1 was bad for this specific car. Said the molecules were too small. What oil should I be using? Some have said that Rotella is a good choice despite it's "cheapness." I am just wondering if I need to change the oil I use? This is my dream car and I want to know what I can do to keep it running.


You haven't said how you drive your car?
Are you into clipping the apex of every corner you see?
Do you frequently check the oil level between OCIs and kept the level on maximum?

The reason I ask is that oil starvation is a common cause of a spun bearing and bearing wear generally. If you want to guarantee it doesn't happen again I'd suggest installing an oil pressure gauge so that you can monitor the situation. It will also tell you if the recommended SN 5W-30 is maintaining an adequate operational viscosity at when the oil temp's are high under full boost conditions. It likely is but this way you'll know for sure.

As to what brand of synthetic oil to use, I certainly don't agree with the tech that said not to use M1, nevertheless I would use another name brand they do approve such as Pennzoil or their own Idemitsu made Subaru 5W-30.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: bananaman82
I have no idea what caused the problem. Just trying to get this new small block to last me for a while. I paid 4k for a 96 rav4 and it lasted me 6 years with very poor maintenance(I was young and dumb). Just really bothers me that I put 12k miles on the car and
it spun a bearing.


So you never let it run super-low on oil, correct? Like, 2 or 3 quarts low?
If you didn't, its an act of nature. Nothing to do with you.

 

[bananaman82]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: bananaman82
So I am about to get my car back this week after a spun bearing at 22000 miles. The dealership and SOA deemed, after 4 months of delegation, that the cause was oil starvation. I disagree. But they are fixing it at no cost to me. The tech told me that Mobil 1 was bad for this specific car. Said the molecules were too small. What oil should I be using? Some have said that Rotella is a good choice despite it's "cheapness." I am just wondering if I need to change the oil I use? This is my dream car and I want to know what I can do to keep it running.


You haven't said how you drive your car?
Are you into clipping the apex of every corner you see?
Do you frequently check the oil level between OCIs and kept the level on maximum?

The reason I ask is that oil starvation is a common cause of a spun bearing and bearing wear generally. If you want to guarantee it doesn't happen again I'd suggest installing an oil pressure gauge so that you can monitor the situation. It will also tell you if the recommended SN 5W-30 is maintaining an adequate operational viscosity at when the oil temp's are high under full boost conditions. It likely is but this way you'll know for sure.

As to what brand of synthetic oil to use, I certainly don't agree with the tech that said not to use M1, nevertheless I would use another name brand they do approve such as Pennzoil or their own Idemitsu made Subaru 5W-30.


I get spirited sometimes with it. I would say a 30% spirited style and 70% commute. I checked my oil maybe once or twice a month but I will check it weekly now. As for the pressure gauge, will it void the warranty? And how will the gauge tell me how the oil is working? Should I just look for an average pressure when the car is warmed up and compare it to other numbers it hits while in specific conditions? If the pressure is high what does that mean? If it is low what does that mean? I have basic knowledge of cars but I am interested in learning much much more than I do now.

 

[bananaman82]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: bananaman82
I have no idea what caused the problem. Just trying to get this new small block to last me for a while. I paid 4k for a 96 rav4 and it lasted me 6 years with very poor maintenance(I was young and dumb). Just really bothers me that I put 12k miles on the car and
it spun a bearing.


So you never let it run super-low on oil, correct? Like, 2 or 3 quarts low?
If you didn't, its an act of nature. Nothing to do with you.


GOD NO! I never ran it low on oil (to my knowledge) every oil change was consistent intake and output.

 

[CATERHAM]

Checking the oil level between oil changes is important at least until you know what the oil consumption is under all conditions.

I don't believe an oil pressure gauge will void your warranty since the reason for the bearing failure was claimed to be oil starvation it would certainly seem prudent to install one. Of course you could ask the same tech rep' if he would recommend it. It would be interesting what his response would be.

Anyway an oil pressure gauge is a very useful instrument.
When driving the car aggressively, such as during high speed high G cornering the oil may momentarily slosh away from the pick-up tube in the sump and this will immediately be reflected as a drop in oil pressure on the oil pressure gauge.
Some cars are prone to oil starvation when cornering to the left and others to the right and in one of my cars it's just during hard breaking. The solution may be as simply as maintaining a certain minimum oil level, the point is you're in control of the situation once you know if or when it can occur.

An OP quage also functions as an viscosity meter. At any given RPM a higher OP reading indicates a higher operational viscosity which is why as the oil heats up and thins out the OP reading gradually declines. Subaru will have a recommended minimum OP test spec' for your engine, usually two spec's, one on idle and at some given higher rpm. You'll find that on the spec' oil you should be above those values when the engine is up to normal operating temp's. When the car is driven hard and the oil temp's rise above normal the oil pressure will be lower but it likely will still be above the test spec's on a street driven car.
Anyway that's just an introduction on the use of an OP gauge.

 

[bananaman82]

Awesome thank you! I recently learned about the effects of cornering on engine oil displacement. And in a car like the AWD, flat four Subaru this SHOULD be a major concern.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

As for the oil itself, some Subie turbo drivers who want to stick with 5W30 (for warranty or whatever) are using Mobil 1 5W30 ESP, which is sort of a diesel oil but is also API SM/SN. HTHS is pretty high at 3.58 and I think the NOACK was really low (~6%?), but it also seems to be a little thicker than "regular" M1 5W30 at extreme cold. The main issue with it is availability in the US, it is not a WalMart kind of oil and I think it's about $10 a quart in auto parts shops.
It is especially attractive to some DIT owners due to a low calcium level, but it also has a low TBN and is probably not well suited to long OCIs.

 

[Shannow]

OP, those oil pressures being quoted are for the maximum limits of engine wear using the OEM oil grade before mechanical intervention is required to fix a PROBLEM...they are not an oil selection tool.

That's a premise to suit an agenda that has never been endorsed by a manufacturer in any manual that I've seen.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
OP, those oil pressures being quoted are for the maximum limits of engine wear using the OEM oil grade before mechanical intervention is required to fix a PROBLEM...they are not an oil selection tool.

That's a premise to suit an agenda that has never been endorsed by a manufacturer in any manual that I've seen.

The test spec's primary purpose are to determine an engine's condition but they are conservative in that they are measured at low normal oil temp's. If you are seeing higher than normal oil temp's such as during some extreme usage your OP can drop below the test spec' figures on the specified grade but that doesn't mean the oil is necessarily too light. If one does some research they might be able to find some more precise minimum OP spec's particularly for some high performance models but in lieu of them the test spec's can be used as an initial very conservative determination of minimum required operational viscosity.

In that end they certainly are used as an oil viscosity selection tool in lieu of actually replacing bearing shells etc., hence the reason for so-called high mileage oils which are somewhat heavier to compensate for engine wear.
By the same token, especially with engines in good shape, it's a very long held practice that lighter oil grades can be used when maximum oil temp's are well contained (such as for winter use) as long as a certain minimum oil pressure (oil pressure being a proxy for operational viscosity) can be maintained.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
By the same token, especially with engines in good shape, it's a very long held practice that lighter oil grades can be used when maximum oil temp's are well contained (such as for winter use) as long as a certain minimum oil pressure (oil pressure being a proxy for operational viscosity) can be maintained.


I've spent many many evenings searching for SAE papers and the like that correlate oil pressure to minimum oil film thickness on the loaded side of the bearing, and haven't found any.

Perhaps you could help and link to some of the ones that you've found ?

 

[SR5]

What your saying sort of makes sense to me, and I see no harm in knowing my oil pressure under different operational conditions.

Which leads me to another idea. What about a oil cooler for the WRX? Or a larger one if it has one as standard. Temp and viscosity are related, so cooler oil is effectively a more viscous oil, without going up a grade. It also adds oil capacity.

Feel free to jump on me if I got it all wrong.

 

[BikeWhisperer]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus

Yes, using a 5w-40 or 0w-40 would void the warranty if it came to that.


Do you have first hand knowledge of this? Have you actually had a warranty denied by Subaru due to using these oils. Because using a different oil weight DOES NOT void a car warranty under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

Using a different oil weight than specified MIGHT void a warranty IF the manufacturer can show that the component failure was due to using a product out of specification. Yes, using an out of spec oil may make this a tougher battle with a manufacturer over a warranty, but Subaru is not going to be able to prove that using M1 or Edge 0w-40 was the sole cause of a failure when these are superior oils to their (M1 and Edge) 5w-30 varieties.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: SR5
What your saying sort of makes sense to me, and I see no harm in knowing my oil pressure under different operational conditions.

Which leads me to another idea. What about a oil cooler for the WRX? Or a larger one if it has one as standard. Temp and viscosity are related, so cooler oil is effectively a more viscous oil, without going up a grade. It also adds oil capacity.

Feel free to jump on me if I got it all wrong.

You're 100% correct, an oil cooler is the ideal solution if high oil temp's are seen on a regular basis. High oil temp's are never a good thing if they can be avoided in the first place while, as you say, retaining the cold start/warm-up advantages of the lighter oil grade.

 

[bananaman82]

Considering the trouble I had in this situation with ALL receipts and using proper oil, I am not risking it.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: Kuato
.Make it easier, buy the 5w30 and get a picture/copy of the receipt. Then return it and get the 0w40 since it was the intent in the first place.

FWIW, Amsoil's 0w40 is supposedly up with M1 and Edge.


Thats a better idea than mine to spike it with M1 15w-50 motorcycle oil. You're sneakier. Maybe thats a complement, I'm not sure.

Any name brand 0w-40 will do great in those Subee turbos. Lately the Pennzoil Ultra 0w-40 has my attention, cuz BMW Motorsports uses it.


Your clever idea just made me think: I wonder if Autozone, Walmart, etc., will let me return M1 0w-40 I have (not wanted now) that I bought over Amazon, to exchange for M1 0w-20 in the store ? Anybody tried that? (My new application is not like my old BMW I'm about to sell, so my stash ain't right.)


Thanks, I think.

With WM's return policies, you might be able to return the M1 0w40 in exchange if you talk to them nice. A friend of mine was a manager there, he said they'd sometimes take returns on stuff they didn't even sell! So as long as M1 0w40 is on the shelf, you should be good.

 

[Gasbuggy]

I want to reiterate that 40w would cause issues with the warranty for a 2014. Subaru made some changes for 2012 or 13 and specifically lists using 30wt only(maybe only 5w30), whereas before other weights were listed as options. There is a huge thread somewhere on NASIOC.COM, my info might not be 100% correct, but the part about 40wt is.

I don't consider a WRX to be some extreme high performance machine that should have many special needs. You should able to beat one as a daily driver for 150-200,000 miles without doing much to it.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: bananaman82
Considering the trouble I had in this situation with ALL receipts and using proper oil, I am not risking it.


Do you have the possibility of getting an A3/B4 5W30 ?

It's a nuance, but the higher HTHS is better for big ends, and it's still 5W30.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: bananaman82
Considering the trouble I had in this situation with ALL receipts and using proper oil, I am not risking it.


Do you have the possibility of getting an A3/B4 5W30 ?

It's a nuance, but the higher HTHS is better for big ends, and it's still 5W30.


Yep, I suggested that earlier, somebody said they don't get it there, only 0W30, but Garak recently said he can now get Edge 5W-30 A3/B4 in Canada, so maybe it's now around.

Also VP suggested M1 5W-30 ESP

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
As for the oil itself, some Subie turbo drivers who want to stick with 5W30 (for warranty or whatever) are using Mobil 1 5W30 ESP, which is sort of a diesel oil but is also API SM/SN. HTHS is pretty high at 3.58 and I think the NOACK was really low (~6%?), but it also seems to be a little thicker than "regular" M1 5W30 at extreme cold. The main issue with it is availability in the US, it is not a WalMart kind of oil and I think it's about $10 a quart in auto parts shops.
It is especially attractive to some DIT owners due to a low calcium level, but it also has a low TBN and is probably not well suited to long OCIs.


Both the M1 5W-30 ESP and the Edge 5W-30 A3/B4 have a HTHS of about 3.5 to 3.6
The A3/B4 would have a high TBN, but is APi SL due to the high zinc (good) only.
The ESP has lower TBN (and zinc I assume), it's ACEA C3, and API SN

Both Much better than the M1 5W-30 GF-5 with a HTHS of about 3.1

Get Some...

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: bananaman82
Thanks for the input guys/gals. If I switched to T6 or 0w-40 or anything aside from 5w-30 it would void my warranty, right?

It won't void it, but they could give you grief, let's say. What is the specific wording? Does it ask for SN or newer 5w-30. Or, does it specifically ask for SN/GF-5 or newer 5w-30. There are SN 5w-30s that are thicker; they're just not ILSAC rated. There are examples that are CJ-4/SN and will have an HTHS of 3.5 or greater, without sacrificing TBN.

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: bananaman82
Considering the trouble I had in this situation with ALL receipts and using proper oil, I am not risking it.

What kind of warranty do you have? As I mentioned earlier, most repairs made under "goodwill" from SoA have a 12k mile/1 yr warranty and not the remainder of the Powertrain Warranty (in regards to the same type of warranty claim).

Most of all, pay attention to the HTHS comments in this thread. This is more important than the grade on the bottle or the brand of oil. You want an HTHS of 3.5 or higher and no Resource Conserving stamp in the API donut on the back. Also look for ACEA A3/B3 or C3. Unfortunately, your selection is limited.

If you run a GF5 oil, change it every 3,000 miles and hopefully that will get you through the remainder of your warranty.