2014 WRX Oil

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Maybe the tech meant you were using too thin an oil? Like M1 5W30 vs M1 5W40?


I agree Aquariuscsm, the tech may not have used the best words, but maybe he was trying to say that the spec'd M1 5W-30 ILSAC GF-5 oil was too thin.

Two obvious choices are M1 0W-40 and Edge 0W-40.

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus

Subaru says to run a full-synthetic 5w-30 or 0w-30, certified API and SN, GF-5, thats all you need to know. Any brand thats certified will be fine


However I would use Castrol Edge 5W-30 A3/B4, this has a HTHS of 3.5 to 3.6
The ILSAC M1 5W-30 has a HTHS of about 3.1
The M1 0W-40 has a HTHS of about 3.8

So the full synthetic Edge 5W-30 A3/B4 is much "thicker" than the M1 5W-30 GF-5.
But it's still a synthetic 5W-30, which given how much they appear to know about oil, might be enough to make everybody happy.

 

[bluesubie]

The only ACEA A3 30 grade Edge that we get is API SL rated 0W-30.

 

[buster]

What a dope.

Listen to bluesubie.

 

[bananaman82]

Every time I have changed the oil it is right below F. To my knowledge the car has never burnt or leaked oil.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: SR5
I agree Aquariuscsm, the tech may not have used the best words, but maybe he was trying to say that the spec'd M1 5W-30 ILSAC GF-5 oil was too thin.


Yeah, he was actually referring to viscosity which relates to oil film thickness in hydrodynamic lubrication.

There is some truth to saying "bigger molecules needed" if he thinks its too thin, since bigger oil hydrocarbon chain molecules do raise viscosity.
I think the technician, using atypical, but correct, parlance, has just showed us all up, myself included.

 

[bananaman82]

Thanks for the input guys/gals. If I switched to T6 or 0w-40 or anything aside from 5w-30 it would void my warranty, right? Also what are your thoughts on an aftermarket oil pump? High flow or an air oil separator kit? Would these help in any way?

 

[bananaman82]

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
You can't. If you're using a Subaru oil filter they should be OK for normal usage. I'd personally go to a Fram Ultra oil filter but its not absolutely necessary. Its beyond your control how the engine responds to pumping oil. Assuming you didn't run it a couple of quarts or more low on oil, its not under your control at all.

Does it have a low oil level warning dashboard light? ( Not the oil pressure light. When the oil pressure light comes on, oil starvation is happening in right now, and the car should be pulled over and turned off immediately. Should be rare. ) The oil level warning is something I thought Subarus have these days, not sure.


Many people don't really care, but Subaru oil filters have unusually high bypass pressures and there do not seem to be many third party filters that are similar in that respect. Probably a bit of a stretch to assume that a warranty claim could be denied due to low filter bypass pressure...but I still hunted down a Wix I was more comfortable with.


So the Subaru oil filter withstands more pressure before it starts bypassing? Do oil filters come labeled with bypass pressure ranges?

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
I think the technician, using atypical, but correct, parlance, has just showed us all up, myself included.

Except that, like a lot of Subaru enthusiasts, they use they use the most popular synthetic oil brand in the world and think that the brand caused the problem, when in fact it was that the viscosity wasn't ideal for the application (and sometimes the nut behind the wheel).

Mobil 1 being "bad for Subaru's" has even made it to the FR-S/BRZ community due to current and former Subaru turbo owners posting in those forums. It's a fight that I've been fighting for years! To this day, people get on Subaru forums and compare GF5 Mobil 1 5W-30 to Rotella T6!

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: bananaman82
So the Subaru oil filter withstands more pressure before it starts bypassing? Do oil filters come labeled with bypass pressure ranges?


I've heard the debates, and if any doubt, then its safest to use Subaru branded oil filters only. Bypass pressure relief thresholds are sometimes listed if you google them. Controversial, so maybe just use Subaru filters.

Originally Posted By: bananaman82
Thanks for the input guys/gals. If I switched to T6 or 0w-40 or anything aside from 5w-30 it would void my warranty, right? Also what are your thoughts on an aftermarket oil pump? High flow or an air oil separator kit? Would these help in any way?


Yes, using a 5w-40 or 0w-40 would void the warranty if it came to that.
You could use M1 5w-30 and then secretly spike it with M1 15w-50 motorcycle synthetic oil to raise HTHS of the mix. Use 1/2 quart to 1 quart of the M1 15w-50 synthetic for thicker oil films than what M1 5w-30 provides, but show saved receipts with the M1 5w-30 and filter only, in case Subaru questions it. Sneaky.

I think the Subaru engineers already have a good high-flow oil pump, so no to aftermarket.

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: bananaman82
Thanks for the input guys/gals. If I switched to T6 or 0w-40 or anything aside from 5w-30 it would void my warranty, right? Also what are your thoughts on an aftermarket oil pump? High flow or an air oil separator kit? Would these help in any way?

As far as warranty goes, you need to find out how long it's for and ask what grade oil that you can run. The owner's manual is very inconsistent regarding this. "5W-40 conventional" is allowed for replenishment, but it doesn't really exist. "Thicker viscosity is required in high temps", but the temps nor the viscosity are defined.

An upgraded oil pump is not needed and neither is an AOS unless you're burning/consuming oil.

Originally Posted By: bananaman82
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
You can't. If you're using a Subaru oil filter they should be OK for normal usage. I'd personally go to a Fram Ultra oil filter but its not absolutely necessary. Its beyond your control how the engine responds to pumping oil. Assuming you didn't run it a couple of quarts or more low on oil, its not under your control at all.

Does it have a low oil level warning dashboard light? ( Not the oil pressure light. When the oil pressure light comes on, oil starvation is happening in right now, and the car should be pulled over and turned off immediately. Should be rare. ) The oil level warning is something I thought Subarus have these days, not sure.


Many people don't really care, but Subaru oil filters have unusually high bypass pressures and there do not seem to be many third party filters that are similar in that respect. Probably a bit of a stretch to assume that a warranty claim could be denied due to low filter bypass pressure...but I still hunted down a Wix I was more comfortable with.


So the Subaru oil filter withstands more pressure before it starts bypassing? Do oil filters come labeled with bypass pressure ranges?


There's a couple of schools of thoughts on this.

There's this thread:
Subaru Oil Pump Specs as Relates to Filter Bypass
where some said you should absolutely use an oil filter with a 23 psi bypass (you can find bypass specs from the filter web site).

Then there are those that say it doesn't matter. gpshumway, that posts here and on nasioc, had a discussion with someone from Fram (Technical Manager?) that said that it doesn't matter. I can't access nasioc from work, but I found the discussion with a google search using "filter bypass gpshumway nasioc". The discussion is buried in a "Was Mobil1 a bad choice" oil filter thread.

-Dennis

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
I like Rotella................bigger molecules. Plus it resists the dirt particles better.

How does it resist dirt particles better?

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: bananaman82

So the Subaru oil filter withstands more pressure before it starts bypassing? Do oil filters come labeled with bypass pressure ranges?


You usually need to dig around for this information. I'm afraid I can't even point you to a single page or thread that has all the alternatives that are in the vicinity of the Subaru filter performance, but here is a BITOG discussion about the Wix I use and Subaru engines.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3124490/2
The Wix 57055 and NAPA Gold 7055 are the same filter, I have some examples of both. I started with the blue Subaru filters, but I can feel the casing flex while I hand tighten them and it freaks me out. The Wix has a metal casing.

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: bananaman82

So the Subaru oil filter withstands more pressure before it starts bypassing? Do oil filters come labeled with bypass pressure ranges?


You usually need to dig around for this information. I'm afraid I can't even point you to a single page or thread that has all the alternatives that are in the vicinity of the Subaru filter performance, but here is a BITOG discussion about the Wix I use and Subaru engines.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3124490/2
The Wix 57055 and NAPA Gold 7055 are the same filter, I have some examples of both. I started with the blue Subaru filters, but I can feel the casing flex while I hand tighten them and it freaks me out. The Wix has a metal casing.

Keep in mind that the OP has the older EJ engine.

New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's

 

[Nate1979]

I confirmed with Jay at Fram that the Fram Ultra has a very high flow rate and it is fully recommended for Subie motors. Unless you are going high RPM with cold oil a Fram Ultra will work just fine.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
I like Rotella................bigger molecules. Plus it resists the dirt particles better.

How does it resist dirt particles better?


Might be true about Rotella T6. Its a diesel oil primarily, which means dispersants are higher to encapsulate more soot & keep it from clumping, similar to what it does to other dirt particles that might be there.

 

[05LGTLtd]

Subaru engines pump an insane volume of oil. I often wonder how there is any oil in the pan when the pump is going full on. No need for a aftermarket pump. Even the STi pumps are overkill unless your completely built and tuned.

Personally, my oil choices are Xw40 with the following approvals A40, BMW LL, WV 505, MB 229, A3/B3. I don't run rotella, because its usually not as good a deal as M1 0w40 on rollback/sale. I'm running synpower 5w-40 right now. Have run Edge 0w40 in the past. Pretty much any deal I can get on a A40 approved oil get stockpiled for the subaru.

I run the subaru ROki filter for 4500miles. When I'm out of them, I'll go FramUltra or Mazda RX-8 filter.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
I confirmed with Jay at Fram that the Fram Ultra has a very high flow rate and it is fully recommended for Subie motors. Unless you are going high RPM with cold oil a Fram Ultra will work just fine.


I used a K&N filter with the nut on top for one change before I heard about the bypass pressure thing and also realized that the nut was of no use to me with the filter being right on top of the engine. Didn't have any major engine fires or pistons shooting through the hood...surely the bypass pressure is not a huge issue, I just like to be somewhere in the neighborhood of the Subie filters.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus

Originally Posted By: bananaman82
Thanks for the input guys/gals. If I switched to T6 or 0w-40 or anything aside from 5w-30 it would void my warranty, right? Also what are your thoughts on an aftermarket oil pump? High flow or an air oil separator kit? Would these help in any way?


Yes, using a 5w-40 or 0w-40 would void the warranty if it came to that.
You could use M1 5w-30 and then secretly spike it with M1 15w-50 motorcycle synthetic oil to raise HTHS of the mix. Use 1/2 quart to 1 quart of the M1 15w-50 synthetic for thicker oil films than what M1 5w-30 provides, but show saved receipts with the M1 5w-30 and filter only, in case Subaru questions it. Sneaky.

I think the Subaru engineers already have a good high-flow oil pump, so no to aftermarket.


Make it easier, buy the 5w30 and get a picture/copy of the receipt. Then return it and get the 0w40 since it was the intent in the first place.

FWIW, Amsoil's 0w40 is supposedly up with M1 and Edge.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
.Make it easier, buy the 5w30 and get a picture/copy of the receipt. Then return it and get the 0w40 since it was the intent in the first place.

FWIW, Amsoil's 0w40 is supposedly up with M1 and Edge.


Thats a better idea than mine to spike it with M1 15w-50 motorcycle oil. You're sneakier. Maybe thats a complement, I'm not sure.

Any name brand 0w-40 will do great in those Subee turbos. Lately the Pennzoil Ultra 0w-40 has my attention, cuz BMW Motorsports uses it.


Your clever idea just made me think: I wonder if Autozone, Walmart, etc., will let me return M1 0w-40 I have (not wanted now) that I bought over Amazon, to exchange for M1 0w-20 in the store ? Anybody tried that? (My new application is not like my old BMW I'm about to sell, so my stash ain't right.)

 

[bananaman82]

I have no idea what caused the problem. Just trying to get this new small block to last me for a while. I paid 4k for a 96 rav4 and it lasted me 6 years with very poor maintenance(I was young and dumb). Just really bothers me that I put 12k miles on the car and it spun a bearing.