Home

Oils wothout Moly?

Posted By: yowps3

Oils wothout Moly? - 09/11/19 02:14 PM

Theortically are there too many drawbacks of having 0 ppm molybdenum?
Does Moly have any disadvantages?
Posted By: Quattro Pete

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/11/19 02:25 PM

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/moly-basics/

Moly is typically used as anti-wear agent, but there are other anti-wear agents that may be used instead, such as titanium, boron, zinc. So, there is more than one way to skin the cat.
Posted By: burla

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/11/19 02:50 PM

For the longest time Valvoline and Royal Purple didn't have moly, amoung a few others, but the uoa's did not suffer, especially with valvoline. But I cann tell first hand high moly is beneficial, many ticks have been killed with it, not only in high moly oils but additives as well.
Posted By: jbutch

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/11/19 04:16 PM

Many HDEO have 0 moly and yet they have excellent uoas. Usually, like Quattro Pete said, there are other AW that acts similarly.

People seems to focus a lot on moly content, but an oil formulation has to be looked at as a whole and not focus on one of the many ingredients.

That being said, some researches came to conclusion that moly might help timing chain wear, but so does boron.
Posted By: aquariuscsm

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/11/19 04:40 PM

Oils with high moly content are legendary for making engines smooth and quiet.
Posted By: zeng

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/11/19 04:40 PM

Moly works as a solid lubricant/AW that performs 2 main function :
a )To reduce Coefficient of Friction (in mixed and boundary lubrication regimes), hence enhancing fuel economy with reduced frictional heat generation , and
b )Enhance MOFT as a solid lubricant and/or AW.

It's sort of a 'requirement' in FE low viscosity CAFE oils like xW16 and xW20 etc , not so in mineral normal viscosity grades oils like 15W40 or 20W50.
Posted By: DGXR

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/11/19 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by jbutch
Many HDEO have 0 moly and yet they have excellent uoas. Usually, like Quattro Pete said, there are other AW that acts similarly.

People seems to focus a lot on moly content, but an oil formulation has to be looked at as a whole and not focus on one of the many ingredients.

That being said, some researches came to conclusion that moly might help timing chain wear, but so does boron.

Exactly! This reminds me of all the threads that obsess over base oils, that one oil is better than another simply because of the base oil content. Ha. Each oil producer additive packages have many different chemical substances in different quantities, with the goal being a complete package (antiwear, low volatility, resistance to oxidation and shear and other breakdown, all that stuff). Zero moly means nothing because the performance of the finished lubricant product is what matters. Thank you jbutch.
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/11/19 05:26 PM

You can't conclude a lube is rubbish simply because it lacks moly. It just depends on how they balance everything (phos/zinc/film strength) synergistically, whether or not they choose to use moly. Some formulas might prefer boron for example, because it also contributes in other ways to the lube.
Posted By: kschachn

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/11/19 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by yowps3
Theortically are there too many drawbacks of having 0 ppm molybdenum?
Does Moly have any disadvantages?

So does Kixx oil have molybdenum or not? Which way are you going here?
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/11/19 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by yowps3
Theortically are there too many drawbacks of having 0 ppm molybdenum?
Does Moly have any disadvantages?

So does Kixx oil have molybdenum or not? Which way are you going here?

👍

It is a strangely worded question, almost a loaded question.
Posted By: burla

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/11/19 07:42 PM

The great thing is there are choices for both, if you don't want moly there are oils for you, if you want some moly there are oils for you and if you want a boat load of moly there are oils for you. Read the paper out there make a choice, done.
Posted By: Railrust

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/11/19 08:14 PM

I think the biggest surprise to me was when Valvoline for years had almost zero moly, to making a dramatic change last year to having it. Wonder what caused that change?
Posted By: PandaBear

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/11/19 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Railrust
I think the biggest surprise to me was when Valvoline for years had almost zero moly, to making a dramatic change last year to having it. Wonder what caused that change?

SN+, LSPI issue with high calcium and one known answer is to replace a lot of calcium with a little moly.
Posted By: A_Harman

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/11/19 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by PandaBear
Originally Posted by Railrust
I think the biggest surprise to me was when Valvoline for years had almost zero moly, to making a dramatic change last year to having it. Wonder what caused that change?

SN+, LSPI issue with high calcium and one known answer is to replace a lot of calcium with a little moly.


Valvoline going away from the 440 ppm Sodium additive pack was a bigger surprise to me.
Posted By: SteveG4

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/12/19 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by yowps3
Theortically are there too many drawbacks of having 0 ppm molybdenum?
Does Moly have any disadvantages?

So does Kixx oil have molybdenum or not? Which way are you going here?

Mikey likes it!
Err... no, that's Kix.
crazy
Posted By: weasley

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/12/19 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by zeng
Moly works as a solid lubricant/AW that performs 2 main function :

Molybdenum disulphide works as a solid lubricant, but most oils with Mo in them don't use MoS2.
Posted By: FordCapriDriver

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/12/19 09:34 AM

Moly does have some synergistic properties with Zinc and Phosphorous in terms of tribofilms but it's not really necessary.
Posted By: Whimsey

Re: Oils wothout Moly? - 09/12/19 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by A_Harman
[
Valvoline going away from the 440 ppm Sodium additive pack was a bigger surprise to me.


What I read was that sodium increases the potential for LSPI. So Valvoline and other oils that use sodium had to reformulate their oils without a major sodium additive if they wanted to meet LSPI requirements.

Whimsey
© 2019 Bob Is The Oil Guy