UI and going back to work

[opus1]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by Ws6
Exactly this. As soon as I can secure a desk job, feasibly, I will. I'm 34 and more jaded than most people twice my age. Tired of it, want out, will make my way out. These threads about work honestly, legit, make me angry thinking about it. Probably a sign I need a desk, lol!


What I find strange and I guess it's pretty normal is how many people don't have any savings. Even though I got blasted pretty bad in the stock market down turn, I'm still not worried about any of my finances. Rode it out during the dot com bust and the last recession.


Well, you're not alone in that line of thinking. I work with too many people who have all the toys and goodies, go places on vacation every chance they get (and they're not cheap vacations), and will then whine about how they're only one, maybe two paychecks away from losing everything. If one is that close to the edge, one should cut back - too simple, I know.

And before anyone says anything, yes, I've been there, done that. I was in the financial sector when 9/11 hit and even though I made it through 7 rounds of layoffs, #8 got me. I was unemployed for over a year, under-employed for another 8 months, and when I finally found my current job, it was at 33% less than I was making when I got jettisoned. And this was before the 99-week UI was available so if it wasn't for my savings, I'd have lost the house.

I could say more but I don't want a BITOG "vacation", nor do I want to shut down this thread.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by opus1


Well, you're not alone in that line of thinking. I work with too many people who have all the toys and goodies, go places on vacation every chance they get (and they're not cheap vacations), and will then whine about how they're only one, maybe two paychecks away from losing everything. If one is that close to the edge, one should cut back - too simple, I know.


Seems like you and I have walked some similar paths, glad you made it through it.

To your other point....

I see it now at plants I visit where OT and shifts are being reduced. Many people (most young but not all) have structured their lifestyle against the OT rather than the 40 and now they are squirming. (many ask me for project work)

Many people really do live beyond their means and need a financial "attitude adjustment" but I'm not as convinced as I used to be that they are the bulk of those without adequate reserves.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by Wolf359


What I find strange and I guess it's pretty normal is how many people don't have any savings. Even though I got blasted pretty bad in the stock market down turn, I'm still not worried about any of my finances. Rode it out during the dot com bust and the last recession.


I don't see why you would- I see it ( or hear about it) about everywhere I go for a client and people are always talking. (plus a lot of my contractors are nomads)

Even if you exclude the young and others who don't have good financial sense or live beyond means, there are millions who have endured any number of events ( singular or in succession) that have wiped them out and there is almost no chance of recovery.

Theres probably more of them than the media tells us about and that's usually the ones I wind up seeing.

It can only take one divorce, illness, accident to destroy a life ( financially or otherwise)- then if a second one hits...

Been there myself so excluding that "irresponsible group" I'm more apt to work to help them because when you take a hit like that, it hurts. Losing "money" is one thing- try losing the ability to make it or be so over the head where its now impossible to get out.

That's another.


I guess strange isn't really the word. Probably disappointed.

I think the real problem is that the young think they can start saving later, but the sooner you start the less you have to save later.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by opus1
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by Ws6
Exactly this. As soon as I can secure a desk job, feasibly, I will. I'm 34 and more jaded than most people twice my age. Tired of it, want out, will make my way out. These threads about work honestly, legit, make me angry thinking about it. Probably a sign I need a desk, lol!


What I find strange and I guess it's pretty normal is how many people don't have any savings. Even though I got blasted pretty bad in the stock market down turn, I'm still not worried about any of my finances. Rode it out during the dot com bust and the last recession.


Well, you're not alone in that line of thinking. I work with too many people who have all the toys and goodies, go places on vacation every chance they get (and they're not cheap vacations), and will then whine about how they're only one, maybe two paychecks away from losing everything. If one is that close to the edge, one should cut back - too simple, I know.

And before anyone says anything, yes, I've been there, done that. I was in the financial sector when 9/11 hit and even though I made it through 7 rounds of layoffs, #8 got me. I was unemployed for over a year, under-employed for another 8 months, and when I finally found my current job, it was at 33% less than I was making when I got jettisoned. And this was before the 99-week UI was available so if it wasn't for my savings, I'd have lost the house.

I could say more but I don't want a BITOG "vacation", nor do I want to shut down this thread.

Well you made it a lot further than I did, I got cut 2 months after 9/11, I was one of the first to go even though I had been there longer than half the people there. But they eventually cut 1/2 the staff in the department. Maybe that was in retaliation though, I once threatened to quit over a vacation that was canceled on me. I had plenty of money and didn't really need the job like other people so when the assistant manager called my bluff, I sat in my chair for a minute and decided that yes, I can just quit and then went to see the manager and told him I'd quit. He waived the whole thing off.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by Wolf359


I guess strange isn't really the word. Probably disappointed.

I think the real problem is that the young think they can start saving later, but the sooner you start the less you have to save later.


Personally I believe its "cause and effect" ( with a sinister connotation deliberately aimed at certain factions who have an agenda to take over)

I think a large part of the current "group" who have to have all the bling with little thought to the risk, consequences and future planning are a deliberate and calculated result of changing of societal values, reduction of parental authority and moral values and strategic changes in education and curriculum and replacing them with "Hollywood' values.

Not only does this transfer wealth to those who sit and wait but creates wealth ( in the form of debt) to those endlessly issuing credit then following that process even though repossessions- it also creates a new "class" with no reserves to effectively endure a "bump in the road" ( much less an actual severe crisis) but do not have the mental or emotional state to deal with it so they will seek a "nanny placebo" to "make it all go away".

Sheeple ripe for the wolves. Ready to be conquered. ( even looking forward to it because they are convinced its the "right" thing to do for all those "others' who have endured imaginary and selective "evils" so you can even add that many will accept it as some form of "delayed justice")

I don't think this is accidental or just a natural progression at all. I think it is deliberate and calculated.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by Wolf359


I guess strange isn't really the word. Probably disappointed.

I think the real problem is that the young think they can start saving later, but the sooner you start the less you have to save later.


Personally I believe its "cause and effect" ( with a sinister connotation deliberately aimed at certain factions who have an agenda to take over)

I think a large part of the current "group" who have to have all the bling with little thought to the risk, consequences and future planning are a deliberate and calculated result of changing of societal values, reduction of parental authority and moral values and strategic changes in education and curriculum and replacing them with "Hollywood' values.

Not only does this transfer wealth to those who sit and wait but creates wealth ( in the form of debt) to those endlessly issuing credit then following that process even though repossessions- it also creates a new "class" with no reserves to effectively endure a "bump in the road" ( much less an actual severe crisis) but do not have the mental or emotional state to deal with it so they will seek a "nanny placebo" to "make it all go away".

Sheeple ripe for the wolves. Ready to be conquered. ( even looking forward to it because they are convinced its the "right" thing to do for all those "others' who have endured imaginary and selective "evils" so you can even add that many will accept it as some form of "delayed justice")

I don't think this is accidental or just a natural progression at all. I think it is deliberate and calculated.


I think you believe in too much control and order. While I went to a good high school and college, they never really focused on personal finance even though things like checkbooks and stocks are mentioned in class like economics. I did my own thing, I basically believed the magazines and charts that shows you what happens over 10 years and how much things can grow if you had invested 10k over that time period. I started out with a few hundred a month. Won't really say what it's up to now but it's one of those things, people who make money don't really say how well they do and people who are deep in the hole have no problem advertising it. So I think people don't really know how well things can be if you start investing early because no one really says.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by Wolf359


I think you believe in too much control and order. While I went to a good high school and college, they never really focused on personal finance even though things like checkbooks and stocks are mentioned in class like economics. I did my own thing, I basically believed the magazines and charts that shows you what happens over 10 years and how much things can grow if you had invested 10k over that time period. I started out with a few hundred a month. Won't really say what it's up to now but it's one of those things, people who make money don't really say how well they do and people who are deep in the hole have no problem advertising it. So I think people don't really know how well things can be if you start investing early because no one really says.


You have no idea how much I hope and pray your assessment is correct and I am completely wrong.

The sheer volume of what I see in these areas has convinced me it is not random or abstract.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by Wolf359


I think you believe in too much control and order. While I went to a good high school and college, they never really focused on personal finance even though things like checkbooks and stocks are mentioned in class like economics. I did my own thing, I basically believed the magazines and charts that shows you what happens over 10 years and how much things can grow if you had invested 10k over that time period. I started out with a few hundred a month. Won't really say what it's up to now but it's one of those things, people who make money don't really say how well they do and people who are deep in the hole have no problem advertising it. So I think people don't really know how well things can be if you start investing early because no one really says.


You have no idea how much I hope and pray your assessment is correct and I am completely wrong.

The sheer volume of what I see in these areas has convinced me it is not random or abstract.


The very nature of the universe is random. Even Einstein couldn't accept it, hence the EPR paradox.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by eljefino
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
My mother-in-law has been a server at Cracker Barrel (tier 4) for the past 15 years. She was laid-off back in March, been on UI, and just went back to work on Wednesday. The store is only open to 30 people, staff included. She only made $8 in tips in a 6 hour shift.


That sucks and I would tip ridiculously well if I went out.

I wonder if the venn diagram of people who just couldn't wait to get out of the house, and the people who stiff waitstaff, has a lot of overlap.


I could see a common trend of apathy.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by Wolf359


The very nature of the universe is random. Even Einstein couldn't accept it, hence the EPR paradox.


Well those who live in the Newtonian/Euclidian universe would argue both that sentiment and the empirical value of the entire science of quantum physics.( but watching with an open mind that one day a mathematical hypothesis based on a statistical probability created by an educated guess may become a tangible three dimensional reality that can be physically examined)

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by opus1
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
My mother-in-law has been a server at Cracker Barrel (tier 4) for the past 15 years. She was laid-off back in March, been on UI, and just went back to work on Wednesday. The store is only open to 30 people, staff included. She only made $8 in tips in a 6 hour shift.


That sucks, period. Even in better times my mantra is that if one can afford to go out to eat, one can afford to tip appropriately. If the service was poor that's a different story, but I'm guessing that waitstaff is being extra attentive right now.


Each waiter/waitress only has 2 tables at a time so they are able to be very attentive. I don't tip solely on the cost of our meal as how much we work the server has a factor too. We could order $200 in food and hardly need anything from her or could be $30 worth and have her going back and forth. I try to leave at least 15% with a $10 minimum and adjust from there based on service. There's only 2 times I didn't leave any tip at all. Both times were due to pure laziness and negligence. You better believe, if my drink has been empty for several minutes while you're over there chit-chatting, on your phone, not paying any attention to your tables, that tip starts to slip away. I can understand if you're busy.

One waitress did that repeatedly and not only to us. The table next to us went pretty much ignored and they didn't leave her a tip. After they left, she made a remark that "Don't go out to eat if you won't tip" where we could hear it. So we didn't leave her a tip either. Instead, we left a long note explaining why she didn't get a tip from either of us and what she should do to correct it.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by Wolf359


The very nature of the universe is random. Even Einstein couldn't accept it, hence the EPR paradox.


Well those who live in the Newtonian/Euclidian universe would argue both that sentiment and the empirical value of the entire science of quantum physics.( but watching with an open mind that one day a mathematical hypothesis based on a statistical probability created by an educated guess may become a tangible three dimensional reality that can be physically examined)


It's the basis of quantum encryption and quantum computing and also based on experiments in the lab. I'm not sure the right answers are there to explain the results of the experiments, but the data from the experiments remains the same no matter how many times you run it.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by Wolf359


It's the basis of quantum encryption and quantum computing and also based on experiments in the lab. I'm not sure the right answers are there to explain the results of the experiments, but the data from the experiments remains the same no matter how many times you run it.


Like I alluded to, I don't condemn the field as pseudo science or voodoo and keep an open mind as its not my field of expertise but the scientific method and standards of proof apply to all of them as they do me. I am waiting with an open mind.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
1.5 million tax free cash is reasonable.


Respectfully, what would you consider unreasonable and then why?


Exactly this. As soon as I can secure a desk job, feasibly, I will. I'm 34 and more jaded than most people twice my age. Tired of it, want out, will make my way out. These threads about work honestly, legit, make me angry thinking about it. Probably a sign I need a desk, lol!


ABN_CBT_ENGR,

That number depends on the person's lifestyle and job. Anything over over 7M cash is really not necessary to be ‘happy' in life. A surgeon needs more money to fund their lifestyle.....verses an elementary school teacher.

As for me, I can retire today and have enough to make it to the finish line without any worries. My game plan started 35 years ago.





Ws6,

Maybe do some soul searching and start planning a career change when economy gets better. You mentioned before the stress and pressure in your current career field. Nothing worse being at a job you really don't want to be at.

34 is still very young to change careers.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by Wolf359


It's the basis of quantum encryption and quantum computing and also based on experiments in the lab. I'm not sure the right answers are there to explain the results of the experiments, but the data from the experiments remains the same no matter how many times you run it.


Like I alluded to, I don't condemn the field as pseudo science or voodoo and keep an open mind as its not my field of expertise but the scientific method and standards of proof apply to all of them as they do me. I am waiting with an open mind.


I would hardly call quantum mechanics any kind of pseudo science. They don't give out Nobel Prizes for pseudo science. Max Planck, Einstein, Niels Bohr, de Broglie, Heisenberg, Schrodinger, Dirac, Pauli, Max Born, Richard Feynman etc have gotten them. Notice how there isn't a category for Astrology? It is very counter-intuitive which is why there's a search for the grand unified theory which would marry classical physics with quantum mechanics. But it's real, quantum tunneling is a real effect and that's why you can only go so small with electronics before that becomes a factor. You may be thinking of string theory which is all theory and currently can't be proven but could be a path toward a grand unified theory or just another dead end.

 

[Alfred_B]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by opus1


Well, you're not alone in that line of thinking. I work with too many people who have all the toys and goodies, go places on vacation every chance they get (and they're not cheap vacations), and will then whine about how they're only one, maybe two paychecks away from losing everything. If one is that close to the edge, one should cut back - too simple, I know.


Seems like you and I have walked some similar paths, glad you made it through it.

To your other point....

I see it now at plants I visit where OT and shifts are being reduced. Many people (most young but not all) have structured their lifestyle against the OT rather than the 40 and now they are squirming. (many ask me for project work)

Many people really do live beyond their means and need a financial "attitude adjustment" but I'm not as convinced as I used to be that they are the bulk of those without adequate reserves.

It's a culture thing. If you watch TV, you are encouraged to live beyond your means. It's heavily encouraged and it almost feels like it's state policy. A large chunk have negative savings, another large chunk can't afford a $500 emergency. Things will undoubtedly get worse once this COVID-19 thing is over.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by Alfred_B
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by opus1


Well, you're not alone in that line of thinking. I work with too many people who have all the toys and goodies, go places on vacation every chance they get (and they're not cheap vacations), and will then whine about how they're only one, maybe two paychecks away from losing everything. If one is that close to the edge, one should cut back - too simple, I know.


Seems like you and I have walked some similar paths, glad you made it through it.

To your other point....

I see it now at plants I visit where OT and shifts are being reduced. Many people (most young but not all) have structured their lifestyle against the OT rather than the 40 and now they are squirming. (many ask me for project work)

Many people really do live beyond their means and need a financial "attitude adjustment" but I'm not as convinced as I used to be that they are the bulk of those without adequate reserves.

It's a culture thing. If you watch TV, you are encouraged to live beyond your means. It's heavily encouraged and it almost feels like it's state policy. A large chunk have negative savings, another large chunk can't afford a $500 emergency. Things will undoubtedly get worse once this COVID-19 thing is over.

I dont watch TV. For me it's a death thing. I can deal with debt, I don't like thinking about dying without having or doing.

What's the worst that could happen with debt? I'll lose things I otherwise never would have had?

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
1.5 million tax free cash is reasonable.


Respectfully, what would you consider unreasonable and then why?


Exactly this. As soon as I can secure a desk job, feasibly, I will. I'm 34 and more jaded than most people twice my age. Tired of it, want out, will make my way out. These threads about work honestly, legit, make me angry thinking about it. Probably a sign I need a desk, lol!


ABN_CBT_ENGR,

That number depends on the person's lifestyle and job. Anything over over 7M cash is really not necessary to be ‘happy' in life. A surgeon needs more money to fund their lifestyle.....verses an elementary school teacher.

As for me, I can retire today and have enough to make it to the finish line without any worries. My game plan started 35 years ago.





Ws6,

Maybe do some soul searching and start planning a career change when economy gets better. You mentioned before the stress and pressure in your current career field. Nothing worse being at a job you really don't want to be at.

34 is still very young to change careers.


I'm staying in the same field, but radically shifting actual job descriptions. It's something I'm working on.

Also surgeons...some docs I know are super frugal. One of my surgeon friends drives a 10+ year old 4runner and lives in a typical middleclass house. His specialty is plastic / cosmetic.

Me? I live typical for my means, but once I pay things off, I'll be living way below them is the goal.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by Wolf359

I would hardly call quantum mechanics any kind of pseudo science. They don't give out Nobel Prizes for pseudo science. Max Planck, Einstein, Niels Bohr, de Broglie, Heisenberg, Schrodinger, Dirac, Pauli, Max Born, Richard Feynman etc have gotten them. Notice how there isn't a category for Astrology? It is very counter-intuitive which is why there's a search for the grand unified theory which would marry classical physics with quantum mechanics. But it's real, quantum tunneling is a real effect and that's why you can only go so small with electronics before that becomes a factor. You may be thinking of string theory which is all theory and currently can't be proven but could be a path toward a grand unified theory or just another dead end.


I didn't call it pseudo-science but given the current state it does in fact dance around the Webster's dictionary definition of same.

As to having a Nobel prize being a version of appeal to authority, that fame has been forever negated and tarnished for some recent awards to people ( and politicians) for doing absolutely nothing so when politics is removed from that once honorable award it can be revisited.

Boiling down the entire field is still all theory ( with some facts but the "conclusions drawn from those facts" is still a question)

As I said, waiting with an open mind and in no way condemning or demeaning- just not going further than actual data supports.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR

Phase-2 is where Nanny comes in and starts dictating terms and taking your stuff for re-distribution ( in the name of justice and safety for the benefit of "society" at the expense of the individual) Somebody has to protect you from all these imaginary monsters- all you have to do is give them everything you have (sell your birthright) for this "promise of safety and equal justice for all. (except you of course)


^