9mm vs. .40 s&w

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Pick whatever caliber you shoot best and can afford to shoot most. FBI ER stats show 38 thru 45 all have similar kill percentages. The bigger factor in ER deaths anyway, had to do with multiple projectile penetrations v the single shot. This is data from US hospitals. I have handguns of multiple calibers. A 40 Glock 22 (15 + 1) has been on hip for most of my LE career. All good. My go to personal gun for the last year is a Glock 45 (17 +1 9mm). No difference.

Agree that for whatever reason the 357SIG has been a great performer. I like it in a full size Glock. Just too expensive to shoot exclusively.
 
Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by Geauxtiger
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
.40 smith & winchester.


Custom collaboration between two companies?

Let me guess at the question and at the same time toss in a 3rd round. Because I am curious also.
What is the real-world effective differences between 9mm, 40 S&W (the Wesson version LOL) and 380?


The S& Winchester is better.





Definitely, if you can find it.
 
Originally Posted by BISCUT
Pick whatever caliber you shoot best and can afford to shoot most. ...


This ^^^
 
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
.40 smith & winchester.

You will have better control of the 9mm when fired and the perp will still be incapacitated.
I won't buy any 40s or .357s. Yep, call me a wimp-then.
 
One can argue wound terminal ballistics is better with 40 S&W, but if you miss the target, wound ballistics in ballistic gelatin argument is meaningless.

In the end, which caliber? The one you can land shots more consistently
 
IMO...everything in life is a compromise...and 9mm is the best compromise in a pistol for PP...
 
Originally Posted by skyactiv
.40 S&W has lost much popularity because of the FBI and modern ammo shortening the gap in performance between 9mm and .40.
I would think .40 S&W is still a better defense round. Many law enforcement agencies across the United States traded in their .40 cal pistols for 9mm because of the FBI.
I watched an old .40 Smith & Wesson promotional video a year ago on Youtube which is very interesting. I cant find it.
There are a few idiots on Youtube that spout their hate for .40 S&W saying crap like many guns chambered in .40 were originally designed for 9mm and it will wear out.....
True in some cases, but who cares. I wouldn't buy a new .40 S&W pistol today, but at the same time, I hope the caliber doesn't keep getting lower take rates in new gun sales.


And yet, in many handguns, there is no better option. Certainly this is true for Glock Just two examples of guns I'm ordering for my son:

Glock 23 (.40 cal), Gen 4
KKM 9mm conversion barrel
.357 sig conversion barrel

One gun, three calibers with a quick barrel change all that's required. Then:

Glock 41:
KKM 10mm conversion barrel

Now I can shoot .45, 10mm, and .40SW in one gun with only one barrel change. I mgiht, maybe, get away with .45 Super. (don't think it's safe for .460 Rowland)

So ya, buying a .40 is still a pretty good idea..
smile.gif
 
I don't want to be that guy, but the FBI changed for two reasons:
1) 9mm today has adequate penetration, adequate protection from over-penetration, and adequate wound channel.

2) Date shows that more shots on target is far more important that wound channel. In fact, as I recall (and don't quote me), a pretty big study showed LEO's fire 17 shots per CNS hit. That's not good. Another study showed that a CNS hit of any caliber was the most factor important against drugged/enraged/motivated attackers, while any hit from any caliber stopped the casual bad guy.

Ergo, more capacity, shorter time between shots, and less recoil equals better stops in real life. Body armor excepted of course, and in respect to the average human. If I was a jail guard defending against guys that can do nothing but lift all day I'm carrying 185gr. 10mm and letting God sort it out from there.
 
Originally Posted by dafish
Originally Posted by skyactiv
.40 S&W has lost much popularity because of the FBI and modern ammo shortening the gap in performance between 9mm and .40.
I would think .40 S&W is still a better defense round. Many law enforcement agencies across the United States traded in their .40 cal pistols for 9mm because of the FBI.
I watched an old .40 Smith & Wesson promotional video a year ago on Youtube which is very interesting. I cant find it.
There are a few idiots on Youtube that spout their hate for .40 S&W saying crap like many guns chambered in .40 were originally designed for 9mm and it will wear out.....
True in some cases, but who cares. I wouldn't buy a new .40 S&W pistol today, but at the same time, I hope the caliber doesn't keep getting lower take rates in new gun sales.


And yet, in many handguns, there is no better option. Certainly this is true for Glock Just two examples of guns I'm ordering for my son:

Glock 23 (.40 cal), Gen 4
KKM 9mm conversion barrel
.357 sig conversion barrel

One gun, three calibers with a quick barrel change all that's required. Then:

Glock 41:
KKM 10mm conversion barrel

Now I can shoot .45, 10mm, and .40SW in one gun with only one barrel change. I mgiht, maybe, get away with .45 Super. (don't think it's safe for .460 Rowland)

So ya, buying a .40 is still a pretty good idea..
smile.gif





Yep, can't beat Glock for versatility and options.

I have 3 - a Model 20, a Model 32, and a Model 36.

I have a Lone Wolf .40 barrel for the 32. And a 22-round factory Glock magazine that works with either .40 or .357 SIG. I personally don't think there's a more compact, powerful pistol on the market. With the Underwood Ammunition, that Glock 32, with its 4" barrel, will send a 125g Speer Gold Dot JHP downrange at 1500+ FPS! Over 600 lbs energy out of a compact pistol that holds 13, 15, or 22 round magazines!

And the Model 20 (chambered in 10mm Auto) will shoot .40 with no modifications!
 
*Lower cost to practice with 9mm , easier for new shooters to master , more rounds in the magazine , good enough to meet the FBI protocol , less wear & tear on the pistol frame are all reasons why the 9mm is preferred today
Originally Posted by ArrestMeRedZ
Skyactive, that was a very good video, although I almost gave up on it early on. Showed pretty convincingly the .40 is a more effective round.
The elephant in the room is the real reason the FBI and police departments are turning in their .40s for 9mm. Although lower cost for weapons (9mm guns last for many more rounds in a lot of the choices) and ammo cost makes a bit of a difference, I suspect the real reason for the switch is the fact that most women do better with the lighter round. And since we are forbidden to suggest there is a difference between the sexes, the change over is attributed to more effective 9mm ammo. This is my opinion only and being a .45 ACP affectionatto I have no dog in the fight.
 
Well, first, the .40 S&W was born of a collaboration between S&W and Federal, not Winchester. It was a response to the "FBI Load" 10mm, which was loaded lighter to allow agents to handle the 10mm recoil during qualification.

Federal and S&W loaded that reduced powder charge in a .25" shorter case and the .40 was born. Same performance as the lite 10mm load, shorter case allowing more rounds and allowing a 9mm chassis/frame to be used.

That said, I am a fan of the .40 - it was my issued weapon (H&K USP Compact, .40S&W, LEM trigger) and I bought the exact same H&K for myself. I shoot it often and the recoil isn't an issue for me. 12+1 capacity is better than my 1911s, in a smaller package, and the ME of the .40 is pretty close to the .45 ACP and much better than a 9mm.

Now, a 9mm is cheaper to buy, much cheaper now, and the round performs good enough for most purposes. Add in higher capacity, and the 9mm makes a lot of sense. So - I completely support the decision of various departments, including mine, to go with a 9mm platform.

One thing to keep in mind - many LEOs are not big gun guys/gals. They don't shoot often, and qualification is a real issue for many departments. 9mm helps with that, and if an officer is involved in a shooting, I want them to have a gun/ammo combination that works for them.

Same for everyone here - you have to have a gun/ammo combo that works for you.

I like the .40, and it works for me, but it may not be a good choice for everyone.
 
My concealed carry gun is the Walther PPS Mk I in .40s&w. It's a single stack ultra thin, less than 1" width. The ext length mag is perfect for my large hand allowing my pinky finger to fit securely on the ext grip portion of the mag. 8 rounds with one chambered and I carry two spare mags when I carry (do not always carry). That gives me 22 rounds performing two speed reloads or two tacticals, whichever is warranted. I have been on the indoor range with it and outdoor combat course. I'm confident with it and comfortable with the non-standard mag release (forefinger not thumb). Walther took so much flack over the forefinger release that they went to the industry standard thumb release on the PPS Mk II.
 
The speed/accuracy difference between 9mm and whatever other service round is inconsequential in actual encounters with a somewhat proficient shooter. The capacity difference is also massively overblown. Loosing a couple rounds in a 13+ round gun isn't a big deal. When you're mag dumping to slide lock it's just two less rounds to hit bystanders.

What guns big agencies carry has little impact on what I want to carry since their issues they need to address aren't necessarily mine.
 
Definitely "out of vogue" at the moment, but the .40 is a great caliber. I carried it professionally for 26 years, shoot them very well and never once felt under gunned with it. There were times I wished I had a long gun though ha ha.

My work recently switched to 9s, I went to a G19 from a G22 (not my choice) but I still wish my new one was a G23.
 
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
My concealed carry gun is the Walther PPS Mk I in .40s&w. It's a single stack ultra thin, less than 1" width. The ext length mag is perfect for my large hand allowing my pinky finger to fit securely on the ext grip portion of the mag. 8 rounds with one chambered and I carry two spare mags when I carry (do not always carry). That gives me 22 rounds performing two speed reloads or two tacticals, whichever is warranted. I have been on the indoor range with it and outdoor combat course. I'm confident with it and comfortable with the non-standard mag release (forefinger not thumb). Walther took so much flack over the forefinger release that they went to the industry standard thumb release on the PPS Mk II.

I would love to shoot that powerful mini.
Hold on Nellie.... for dear life. What dead & of metal will come to life quickly, once I squeeze that trigger. It will try to jump right out of my hand.

Been there - done that. Thankfully the 40 and .357 was rental and not a purchase. I must have a gun I can somewhat easily control. My life may depend on it,
 
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
My concealed carry gun is the Walther PPS Mk I in .40s&w. It's a single stack ultra thin, less than 1" width. The ext length mag is perfect for my large hand allowing my pinky finger to fit securely on the ext grip portion of the mag. 8 rounds with one chambered and I carry two spare mags when I carry (do not always carry). That gives me 22 rounds performing two speed reloads or two tacticals, whichever is warranted. I have been on the indoor range with it and outdoor combat course. I'm confident with it and comfortable with the non-standard mag release (forefinger not thumb). Walther took so much flack over the forefinger release that they went to the industry standard thumb release on the PPS Mk II.

I would love to shoot that powerful mini.
Hold on Nellie.... for dear life. What dead & of metal will come to life quickly, once I squeeze that trigger. It will try to jump right out of my hand.

Been there - done that. Thankfully the 40 and .357 was rental and not a purchase. I must have a gun I can somewhat easily control. My life may depend on it,


It is snappy I will agree. I can place rounds with it equivalent to my proficiency with the Glock 21F (.45) I have to carry for work.
 
Yep, the self-defense mode we must undertake-in, to defend ourselves against a perp, could require us shooting bent over - on one leg - standing at a slant - using only one hand in odd positions.....etc....etc... is why I chose not to buy a 40 or 357.

My 45ACP is really too big for conceal carry, despite being narrow and single stack. I found some 180 gr ammo for it from Eastern Europe and I can shoot it one handed. But I couldn't shoot one-handed well enough using standard 240gr ammo. Too jumpy.
 
I love the 40. Also a big fan of the 357 sig. 9mm guys always crack me up why they think 9mm is better. Imo 9mm is only better than the 380acp.
 
Originally Posted by Dragon44
I love the 40. Also a big fan of the 357 sig. 9mm guys always crack me up why they think 9mm is better. Imo 9mm is only better than the 380acp.


The caliber that's better, is the one you can shoot well.
 
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