Is The ".30 Super Carry" Yet Another Flop?

[billt460]

Interest in this thing seems to be petering out fast. And guns chambered for it are getting real cheap, even quicker. The ammo is expensive, (especially compared to 9 MM).

Grab-A-Gun has S&W Shields for just $250.00 in .30 S.C. after the factory rebate. And they don't seem to be moving very well at that price. This thing seems to be going the way of the .45 G.A.P., Remington SAUM's, and Winchester WSSM's..... More solutions to non existent problems.

With 9 MM guns as common as dirt, it's very hard, if not impossible to carve out a market for a new defensive handgun round. I hope I'm wrong, but I hear TAPS playing in the background for this one.

Smith and Wesson Shield Plus Optics Ready 30 Super Carry 3.1" Barrel 16-Round Thumb Safety

The Shield Plus Optics Ready is the next generation in everyday carry. It features an 18-degree grip angle for a more natural point of aim and better recoil management, plus the new flat face trigger allows for consistent finger placement for accurate, repeatable, comfortable shooting. This...

grabagun.com

 

[UncleDave]

Another solution looking for a problem.

 

[JavierH19]

I don't think it's a flop yet but i think they should've gone narrower and longer with the cartridge to pack more rounds while still retaining power. A high pressure long case 25 acp magnum in hollow point would be terrifying compared to the standard low case pressure short case length 25 acp.

 

[JavierH19]

Another solution looking for a problem.

I'd usually agree but they are trying to pack more rounds in while also reducing recoil which both are good in desperate situations as anyone can be a bullseye billy on the range after standing still for 5 seconds. But trying to fire multiple rounds in a situation becomes a lot more difficult with every miniscule increase in recoil so reducing recoil and having a few more rounds makes your hit statistics a lot better. .30 HP will still mess someone up bad as it's a strong cartridge for its small size.

 

[spasm3]

With the the availability of higher capacity small frame 9mm guns, I can't see any advantage over 9mm, and its yet another caliber to keep in the safe.

Pass.

 

[Astro14]

I like the idea - but very expensive ammo, and very little variety in firearm choice to get what, a round or two capacity over 9mm? Not seeing the argument in favor.

Another orphan round is the .327 Federal. A .32 with decent power, that can increase capacity in a small frame revolver. In that revolver, you can also chamber .32 H&R and .32 S&W.

I like it, but I’ve never seen one for sale.

 

[billt460]

I remember some years back North American Arms came up with their proprietary round for their small, concealable auto pistol, the .32 NAA. They developed it with Cor-Bon Ammunition, as a bottlenecked round based off a .380 case necked down to .32 caliber.

The concept was good, and it showed promise ballistically over the .32 ACP, but it just never caught on. It was a well made, albeit discontinued, little DAO Stainless Steel auto pistol. No one else ever chambered it as far as I know.

And today you've got a better chance of finding a gold nugget on a supermarket floor, than finding a box of ammo for it on a shelf anywhere. (I think both Cor-Bon and Hornady still make it). Yet another idea that just never got any wind in its sails.

.32 NAA - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

NAA-32NAA

32NAA Guardian - DISCONTINUED .32NAA Caliber Identical to the 380ACP frame, but chambered in proprietary 32NAA (a 380 bottle-neck cartridge) 6+1 Capacity Stainless Steel

www.northamericanarms.com

 

[UncleDave]

I'd usually agree but they are trying to pack more rounds in while also reducing recoil which both are good in desperate situations as anyone can be a bullseye billy on the range after standing still for 5 seconds. But trying to fire multiple rounds in a situation becomes a lot more difficult with every miniscule increase in recoil so reducing recoil and having a few more rounds makes your hit statistics a lot better. .30 HP will still mess someone up bad as it's a strong cartridge for its small size.

I get what they are trying to do.

I'd rather mod a common calibre weapon with custom springs/ work to reduce the recoil with a given off the shelf round I can easily acquire vs. buy a gun tuned specifically to a round as easily found as hens teeth.

Is it a cool piece- sure. Better off as a friends than mine.

 

[KCJeep]

Very few new cartridges actually "make" it, this one is not going to be one of them.

I do find the .327 Federal pretty interesting, but don't think it's really taken off.

 

[MolaKule]

Here is a later article on the .327 FWIW. Looks interesting.

327 Federal Magnum: The Little Loved Alternative to the .357

The 327 Federal Magnum might be the best self-defense cartridge you’ve never shot that lets you fit six rounds in a J-frame size revolver.

freerangeamerican.us

I prefer my Judge with the .45 Long Colt any day.

 

[ATex7239]

Anytime I’ve ever steered into the newest caliber hotness, I’ve always just ended up going right back to the old faithfuls (9mm, .45ACP, .380ACP, etc.)

I really got into S&W .40 years ago and now I don’t even own one. I basically wasted money buying something new only to turn around and sell it for less later.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Shot an S&W model whatever a while back in 30 super carry. I do not see the value in changing from 9 to 30. Sure, if you own no gun, I could see a noob getting one, why not. The market has to sell new stuff, lest they would go out of business. New caliber = new gun parts etc.

 

[MSCH]

I have a tendency to think pretty much every caliber and power level is covered already so these unusual calibers only truly appeal to firearms snobs.
The rest of the shooting public just want something that cartridges are readily available for, on the shelf even at the local hardware store and relatively inexpensive.

Down the road it is an irritant to own a firearm for which cartridges are almost unavailable.

Perfect example is growing up a friend had a 444 Marlin. not that it is uncommon but he could only get cartridges at one gun shop, whereas all the rest of us were firing 30-30, 30 06 and 308 and we could get cartridges just about anywhere.. and borrow them if needed.

 

[kmrinpa]

yes...former victims include 45 gap, 480 ruger, 460 s&w mag, 204 ruger, 41 mag, 41ae, 327 mag; as well as the current plethora of crazy calibers for use in ar platforms...

 

[Elkins45]

Here is a later article on the .327 FWIW. Looks interesting.

327 Federal Magnum: The Little Loved Alternative to the .357

The 327 Federal Magnum might be the best self-defense cartridge you’ve never shot that lets you fit six rounds in a J-frame size revolver.

freerangeamerican.us

I prefer my Judge with the .45 Long Colt any day.

6 vs 5 in a slow to reload pocket revolver is a much bigger improvement than increasing capacity in a magazine fed gun IMO. Besides, the ASP guy who has studied thousands of defensive shootings says he’s never seen a non-LEO need to reload. Generally speaking the fight is won or lost with the ammo in the gun.

 

[Slick3914]

It was a dumb round from day 1. It had no chance of success.

 

[Rogueman2016s]

I don’t hear anyone speak of it around my area it’s either a 380 or 9mm

 

[ripcord]

If the .30 Super Carry was named with historical naming conventions in mind it would be called .32 Super as conceptually it's similar to the .38 Super. Take a full size service type pistol and design a smaller diameter cartridge that takes advantage of the size constraints yeilding higher velocity and a slightly higher magazine capacity.

In real life, I'm like meh, where's the real advantage over existing cartridges? The only place I could see this taking off is in places where military calibers are banned.

 

[bunnspecial]

I like the idea - but very expensive ammo, and very little variety in firearm choice to get what, a round or two capacity over 9mm? Not seeing the argument in favor.

Another orphan round is the .327 Federal. A .32 with decent power, that can increase capacity in a small frame revolver. In that revolver, you can also chamber .32 H&R and .32 S&W.

I like it, but I’ve never seen one for sale.

I've owned two guns chambered in 327 Magnum-the first a Ruger SP101 that I stupidly sold, and the second a Ruger Single 7 that I plan to never sell.

The Single 7 was a special-order through one of the distributors several years back. As soon as I heard of them, I called every gun store in town and one was able to get one for me. Initially they were limited to 1000 in each barrel length(mine is 5 3/4")-I feel like I might have heard there was enough demand that they made a second batch, but I don't know that for sure.

It's a fun caliber, but then I have a "thing" for high velocity 32 caliber handguns. I love the 32-20 also. I've never been brave enough to load 32-20 "Rifle" ammunition to shoot in one of my 32-20 S&W revolvers(which some CLAIM are strong enough handle loads meant for Winchester 92s) but it's still fun even at smokeless handgun loads. Of course loading it is also a pain-I haven't looked at the scene recently but Remington use to be the only company that made brass in the proper length, but the neck was thin and I managed to crush at least one every round of 50. Winchester and Starline brass is thicker walled, but also shorter than Remington(which is techincally spec length). That means too you have to be particular about sorting headstamps and adjusting dies, especially as the Remington is not only longer but the thinner walls make it crimp differently.

327 Magnum is a different beast, though. It's more like reloading 357 Magnum, but just in a smaller cartridge. Even though the bullets are light, the relatively high velocity translates into as much if not more muzzle energy than a typical 357 Mag(whether 125gr or 158gr) but with less recoil. The smaller 32 caliber(or rather 317 caliber IIRC) bullets have somewhat more favorable ballistics so it's both flatter shooting and at distance can deliver more KE. It may well be the loudest handgun caliber I've ever shot, too, although my Single 7 with its longer barrel is a bit tamer than my SP101 was.

Unfortunately reloading never really was a great proposition for it. IIRC I bought a set of 32 H&R Magnum dies that were long enough to handle a 327 Mag cartridge, but those are not the easiest dies to find in the first place and I seem to remember that not all brands are long enough. Funny enough, I think I ended up with Lee dies, which were(although I love Lee dies in general). Even with brass, dies, and bullets in hand, load data was scarce. I seem to remember that Federal was the only company to have ever made factory ammo, and I think Starline might have made a limited run of brass but most out there in circulation is Federal.

 

[supton]

327Mag, I thought I read that the pressures were on the high side and a bit problematic for reloading? Used to be interested in that round, thought it had something going for it (6 shots instead of 5, etc). I figured if I ever got a 327Mag, I'd probably reload to 32H&R Magnum levels (another road that didn't make it--probably because it was more of a 32 special).

At least for a revolver, drop the money on a few boxes of ammunition, then you're set, at least for a while. Takes a while to wear out the brass, and you can be careful to not lose any.