9mm vs. .40 s&w

[JohnnyJohnson]

Originally Posted by hatt
Originally Posted by bsmithwins
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Which is why two of my of my favorite carbines are the Win. 45 Colt Lever Action and the HiPoint .40 Carbine.


Pistol caliber carbines are a hoot, on a range.

For serious work though if I'm going to lug around a rifle size object I want a rifle caliber for effect and range.

BSW

A magnum revolver caliber(or modern loaded .45 Colt/etc) is a powerful and capable weapon. A .357 carbine has 5.56 energy. I can't envision too many defensive where you're going to need to shoot past 150-200 yards so it's satisfactory there.


Local Police Statistics say the average distance in self defense shooting in Seattle are 13.5 feet.

 

[bsmithwins]

Originally Posted by hatt
Originally Posted by bsmithwins
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Which is why two of my of my favorite carbines are the Win. 45 Colt Lever Action and the HiPoint .40 Carbine.


Pistol caliber carbines are a hoot, on a range.

For serious work though if I'm going to lug around a rifle size object I want a rifle caliber for effect and range.

BSW

A magnum revolver caliber(or modern loaded .45 Colt/etc) is a powerful and capable weapon. A .357 carbine has 5.56 energy. I can't envision too many defensive where you're going to need to shoot past 150-200 yards so it's satisfactory there.


I don't know how you're loading your .357 Mag or your .223 but the numbers I'm finding for .357 Mag are around 590ftlbs and .223 common loads start at 1600ftlbs and go up from there.

Then there there is the significant advantage of auto loading vs repeating arms. Semi automatics are easier to learn and not subject to user errors like forgetting to run the bolt (or lever). I've taken shots from under a parked truck and from rollover (urban) prone, both of which situations make it difficult to run a bolt or lever gun.

And not to mention capacity and ease of reloading for detachable magazine arms vs those that need to be topped up round by round.

A .357 Mag levergun can be an effective tool in the right hands, but a modern military pattern rifle is better by any objective criteria.

BSW

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted by bsmithwins


I don't know how you're loading your .357 Mag or your .223 but the numbers I'm finding for .357 Mag are around 590ftlbs and .223 common loads start at 1600ftlbs and go up from there.

Then there there is the significant advantage of auto loading vs repeating arms. Semi automatics are easier to learn and not subject to user errors like forgetting to run the bolt (or lever). I've taken shots from under a parked truck and from rollover (urban) prone, both of which situations make it difficult to run a bolt or lever gun.

And not to mention capacity and ease of reloading for detachable magazine arms vs those that need to be topped up round by round.

A .357 Mag levergun can be an effective tool in the right hands, but a modern military pattern rifle is better by any objective criteria.

BSW

You need to look at carbine numbers and not revolver numbers. I also want to see the .223 loads with 1600+ ftlbs. M193 is 5.56 pressure. 55 grain at around 3300 fps, with 20 inch barrel. That gets you a little over 1300 ftlbs. Shorten the barrel to what's commonly sold and that energy drops off.

You're right about the platform. A military style auto outclasses a lever action if you look at the one angle of being a fighting gun. As a general purpose gun a revolver cartridge lever performs pretty well. Especially when paired with a matching revolver.

 

[bsmithwins]

You're right about the .223 energy numbers. I was looking at Joules instead of ftlbs.

BSW

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted by Dragon44
I love the 40. Also a big fan of the 357 sig. 9mm guys always crack me up why they think 9mm is better. Imo 9mm is only better than the 380acp.

The Sig 357 is for people wanting a 40 S&W but cant quite handle the fotay so they neck it down to an easy to shoot 9mm+p

That being said it takes a good hit with a forty to do the damage a near miss with 45ACP shot from a 1911 can do ,no brag just fact.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by Dragon44
I love the 40. Also a big fan of the 357 sig. 9mm guys always crack me up why they think 9mm is better. Imo 9mm is only better than the 380acp.

The Sig 357 is for people wanting a 40 S&W but cant quite handle the fotay so they neck it down to an easy to shoot 9mm+p

That being said it takes a good hit with a forty to do the damage a near miss with 45ACP shot from a 1911 can do ,no brag just fact.

LOL. The .45 has to do damage from misses because most people simply move out of the way when they see the bullet lumbering towards them. The .45 ACP is probably the 6-7th best chambering of a 1911. .38 Super is best 1911 followed by 10mm.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted by CT8
The Sig 357 is for people wanting a 40 S&W but cant quite handle the fotay so they neck it down to an easy to shoot 9mm+p
So a .40 S&W has more energy than a .357SIG and subsequently more recoil?

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by Dragon44
I love the 40. Also a big fan of the 357 sig. 9mm guys always crack me up why they think 9mm is better. Imo 9mm is only better than the 380acp.

The Sig 357 is for people wanting a 40 S&W but cant quite handle the fotay so they neck it down to an easy to shoot 9mm+p

That being said it takes a good hit with a forty to do the damage a near miss with 45ACP shot from a 1911 can do ,no brag just fact.


The .357 Sig was an attempt to make an auto cartridge with the ballistics of a .357 magnum, which has an enviable record of effectiveness in actual shootings.

They came close.

But it's a boutique cartridge and expensive to buy.

That said, I still want a SiG in .357 SiG

Just because.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted by Astro14
But it's a boutique cartridge and expensive to buy.
Cheap to reload though. I chose a bullet profile and weight that I can use to reload both 9MM and .357SIG. I had a P226 that was a .40S&W and .357SIG (two separate slides), but sold it a while back, however, it was a nice pistol.

 

[hatt]

I wouldn't call the 357 sig a boutique round. Quite a few large agencies use it. Ammo, both duty type and range, is commonly available. Guns are available. It's certainly more expensive than 9mm but not so much when comparing to .45.