2013 Santa fe 2.0T 3697kms Motul xclean efe 5w-30 Help with odd results!

[STIcandy]

So I have a friend I service all his cars for him. He has this 2013 Santa fe with the 2.0T. He hasn't been great with the oil changes on this thing before I started taking care of it. I've done the last 2 OC on it. The fist one I did, didn't check the dip stick but when drained the old oil into the jug, it only had about 2L of oil in it. Sump takes 5.5, that run they put over 10,000kms on and didn't check the oil. I BELIEVE I put castrol or whatever was on sale when I changed it with a fram tough guard filter (I know, don't bother I won't use it again.). They came back to me about 8k next time and same results low oil level. This time I filled it with the Motul xclean efe 5w-30 I use on basically everything I service and I set the OCI to 3 months or 5k. The reminder came on @ 3697kms and it was already 1.25L low. So u pulled a sample through the dip stick and sent it off for analysis. This time I asked for a full gas chromotography test.

I got the results back today, and I'm quite perplexed. Iron seems to be within specs, silver came back a little off (bearings?) they say possible solder (not sure if it has a oil cooler.) fuel dilution is not an issue, however I'm concerned with the oil specs. I sent a VOA for this oil in and the results don't line up at all with this UOA. Even the TBN seems insanely low, all to the point they think I labelled the oil wrong, which I'm sure I didn't and I know they didn't top it off with anything else.

Any suggestions? Is it possible these discrepancies can be from remnants of the old oil?

 

[STIcandy]

Sorry about that picture sucks. Stupid question but I can't modify the original pdf to remove my personal info because it's locked and my screen shots are not coming out well. How else do I do this aside from printing and taking an actual picture?

 

[STIcandy]

Ill just do this

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Sure, since about 15-20% is left over when you drain the sump. Plus, if there is sludge/buildup from all the burn off, the Motul could be freeing up those deposits back into solution. Looks pretty normal IMO. AFAIK boron is "sacrificial", and Mg is definitely from old fill and old oil diluted the rest of the results.

 

[STIcandy]

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Sure, since about 15-20% is left over when you drain the sump. Plus, if there is sludge/buildup from all the burn off, the Motul could be freeing up those deposits back into solution. Looks pretty normal IMO. AFAIK boron is "sacrificial", and Mg is definitely from old fill and old oil diluted the rest of the results.


Thanks for your thoughts. That was my first train of thought when I saw these results. In my experience the Motul has proven to be a very high detergency oil, and the maintenance on this particular vehicle has been far from stellar to say the least. TBH, I was more interested in the fuel dilution and viscosity (pointing to a lower flash point causing the burn off). I can't believe how badly the TBN took a beating though. I think it's safe to say the oil is not the contributing factor to the oil burning and it's probably more likely the rings. I'm also going to change the PCV next OCI.

I guess the takeaway from this is wait until at least two consecutive OCI'S with the same lube before taking a sample to analyze the performance of the oil.

 

[Danno]

Sounds to me like a problem waiting to happen. Taking over a poorly maintained car, with an engine that consumes oil.

 

[mattd]

30 ppm iron in 3900km is also quite a bit

 

[STIcandy]

Originally Posted by mattd
30 ppm iron in 3900km is also quite a bit


I know. Add to that the silver and I'm a little concerned.

I'm going to switch it to a high mileage engine oil and thinking about ordering some Auto-rx and performing the couple of short intervals prescribed with this treatment and then taking another UOA on the 3rd OCI. Any reason I shouldn't try this?

I've come to the conclusion this engine cannot go past the 6000km severe maintenance OCI.

 

[kschachn]

In these situations what indication is there that this UOA has much of anything to do with the oil? Rather it illustrates the condition of the engine or of your specific operating conditions. It also doesn't indicate anything about your oil filter either despite your unfounded fears about that. You post that you "won't use it again" but what connection to using a Fram Tough Guard relates to this UOA?

As far as oil "specs" go, did you use an oil that did not have the required specification or license as required by the manufacturer?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Turbo bearing and and seals may be toast.

Just to make sure I would do a hot compression and leakdown test.
If poor, do a ring soak overnight. run it a few hours hard then do another compression and leak.

if that shows good its back to turbo seals and bearing or possibly stem seals.

I would just run QSGB in there for now, I see no need for exotic which may not be helpful.

BTW the DP numbers look off and low on the Motul xc efe though I'm not totally familiar with euro 6 C3 oils

 

[STIcandy]

Originally Posted by kschachn
In these situations what indication is there that this UOA has much of anything to do with the oil? Rather it illustrates the condition of the engine or of your specific operating conditions. It also doesn't indicate anything about your oil filter either despite your unfounded fears about that. You post that you "won't use it again" but what connection to using a Fram Tough Guard relates to this UOA?

As far as oil "specs" go, did you use an oil that did not have the required specification or license as required by the manufacturer?


I have no fears about the oil filter whatsoever, I agree with you there seems to be no reason to doubt it's ability. After reading all the threads about the "Orange canister of death" I was trying to avoid the muddling of this discussion with Fram hate spam. I personally have never had an issue or failure with even the cheapest Fram filter.

The car calls for API SM. The Motul xclean efe 5w-30 is an API SN oil. It doesn't however hold the SN+ designation, I discovered the importance of SN+ in TGDI engines after the last oil change.

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Turbo bearing and and seals may be toast.

Just to make sure I would do a hot compression and leakdown test.
If poor, do a ring soak overnight. run it a few hours hard then do another compression and leak.

if that shows good its back to turbo seals and bearing or possibly stem seals.

I would just run QSGB in there for now, I see no need for exotic which may not be helpful.

BTW the DP numbers look off and low on the Motul xc efe though I'm not totally familiar with euro 6 C3 oils



The turbo was replaced quite recently but I wouldn't be surprised if the bearings have been wiped out again due to the maintenance and iron in the oil.

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what DP is?

 

[Mainia]

I have been told by a guy who works for Polaris Labs and use to race Hyundai's, the main metal in the Hyundai OEM turbo shaft bearing is hardened lead alloy. Run some Redline or even some Valvoline Restore in it. And screw the Fram orange can BS, use only a Fram Ultra to grab all the shedding gunk from the motor. Don't throw in the towel just yet at cleaning out that engine.

Actually, run another dose of Motul and do a test. I myself just don't like to do a first run of a oil type/brand and use it as your game plan. Test#2 with the same oil is what I would go by for your "game plan. You need to flush out the old oil a bit better then a single dump and fill then test.

 

[STIcandy]

Originally Posted by Mainia
I have been told by a guy who works for Polaris Labs and use to race Hyundai's, the main metal in the Hyundai OEM turbo shaft bearing is hardened lead alloy. Run some Redline or even some Valvoline Restore in it. And screw the Fram orange can BS, use only a Fram Ultra to grab all the shedding gunk from the motor. Don't throw in the towel just yet at cleaning out that engine.

Actually, run another dose of Motul and do a test. I myself just don't like to do a first run of a oil type/brand and use it as your game plan. Test#2 with the same oil is what I would go by for your "game plan. You need to flush out the old oil a bit better then a single dump and fill then test.


That's good to know thanks!

I have bought a couple bottles of AutoRx and some penzoil conventional oil as well as a new PCV. My next plan of attack it to use the conventional for the flush, drain and fill with Motul for the rinse phase then drain/fill with the same Motul again and then run another analysis at that point and see where the numbers are at.

The only thing I'm debating now is if I want to go with the Motul xclean efe 5w-30 or step it up to the xclean 5w-40. I guess that will all depend on how it responds to the cleaning in regards to oil burning. I do definately believe in the cleaning power of the Motul additive package.