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Non-Detergent and Additized Mono-Grades #5355391 02/20/20 12:14 PM
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MolaKule Offline OP
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There still seems to be some confusion over Non-Detergent Motor oils and Additized Mono Grades so hopefully this will clarify some of the issues.

This has been stated in over 10 different forums and threads and so we need to be specific when discussing this topic.

There are Non-Detergent (ND) Monograde SAE 30 engine oils and there are additized Monograde SAE 30 and higher viscosity grade engine oils

A Non Detergent (ND) Monograde SAE 30 engine oil is rated API SA. The only additive I have found in these oils is an anti-foam agent; no Anti-War (AW), NO Friction Modifiers (FM's), no corrosion inhibitors, and no dispersants.


Oils such as these are Non-Detergent (ND) MonoGrades.

http://www.xcellube.com/default.html?location=http://www.xcellube.com/products/pcmo/premium.html

http://www.warrenoil.com/MSDS-Spec/PDS/Coastal/PDS%20-%20Coastal%20Non-Detergent%20Motor%20Oil.pdf

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-Non-Detergent-SAE-30W-Lubricating-Oil-1-Quart/52626201

https://www.amazon.com/Mag-232-SAE30-Non-Detergent-Oil/dp/B007VWYCIG

It is immaterial whether or not a Non-Detergent (ND) Monograde SAE 30 API SA engine oil may be used as a hydraulic oil or compressor oil since it does not contain an additive package to protect modern engines or gearing. In fact, a Non-Detergent SA oil in a hydraulic system could cause accelerated pump and spool wear.


Now MonoGrade oils such as these are MonoGrade SAE 30 oils but do carry LATER API ratings and are Additized with DETERGENTs, AW, Metal Inhibitors, Dispersants, etc., and the labels may also state, "HD, ". depending on the level of HD additives that are contained therein.

https://mag1.com/products/passenger-car-motor-oil/monograde-motor-oil/mag-1-sae-30-motor-oil/

https://www.jbtools.com/pennzoil-55...a3Mfg5wIVdh-tBh1zbgg7EAQYASABEgLMWfD_BwE



Oils such as XCEL (Amalie) have had a number of Class Action Lawsuits brought against the Non-Detergent SAE XX API SA oils because of various allegations such as:

Quote
...class action settlement in the Opalka v. Amalie Oil Company lawsuit. The lawsuit claims that Defendant's XCEL Premium motor oil is considered "obsolete" by the American Petroleum Institute ("API"), in that it is a non-detergent motor oil with an API-SA rating which the Class Representatives allege is unsuitable, harmful, and ineffective as a motor oil for automotive engines manufactured after 1930. The Class Representatives each allege that they were misled by the XCEL Premium label and purchased XCEL Premium because the label caused them to believe it was suitable for use in their modern car engines. They allege the motor oil was worthless to them, and to anyone who purchased it to be used in any automobile manufactured after 1930. The Settlement is limited to XCEL Premium motor oil and does not include any other motor oil....
and they are not the only ones as DG ND Monograde is another oil that has gone through CA lawsuits suits as well.

PQIA has also been involved in warning consumers against using these Obsolete oils as well:

http://www.pqiamerica.com/index4122017.html

Bottom Line: You can help your neighbors and friends by educating them on these dangerous oils that have been marketed to the unsuspecting and uninformed public.





"As engineers [and scientists] we are wired to solve problems and to create new things, to challenge the status quo and push the limits..." Ken Hurt, Embry-Riddle University, Class of '97.
Re: Non-Detergent and Additized Mono-Grades [Re: MolaKule] #5355439 02/20/20 12:57 PM
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ragtoplvr Offline
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People will not read the label. so the type SA oils need to marked compressor and jack oil, not for use in motors. This type of oil is needed for compressors so any dirt can fall out of suspension.

It can also be marked as type SA so the antique car folks can use it, since they do not have oil filters either. and some modern additives can attack some older engine components.

Rod..

(NA) Re: Non-Detergent and Additized Mono-Grades [Re: ragtoplvr] #5355449 02/20/20 01:01 PM
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MolaKule Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
...some modern additives can attack some older engine components.

Rod..


What factual data is there as to which additives have been found to attack what engine components in vintage engines?

Last edited by MolaKule; 02/20/20 04:21 PM.

"As engineers [and scientists] we are wired to solve problems and to create new things, to challenge the status quo and push the limits..." Ken Hurt, Embry-Riddle University, Class of '97.
(NA) Re: Non-Detergent and Additized Mono-Grades [Re: MolaKule] #5355472 02/20/20 01:15 PM
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Propflux01 Offline
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I can’t help but a part of me thinking “well, if you cant read the label, you shouldn’t be using it”. If in doubt, ask someone. A flashy label is not an excuse for not reading the label. If that were the case, I’d just pick the oil that comes in my favourite colour jug.


2014 Hyundai Elantra
2014 Hyundai Elantra GT
(NA) (NA) Re: Non-Detergent and Additized Mono-Grades [Re: Propflux01] #5355475 02/20/20 01:16 PM
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MolaKule Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Propflux01
I can’t help but a part of me thinking “well, if you cant read the label, you shouldn’t be using it”. If in doubt, ask someone. A flashy label is not an excuse for not reading the label. If that were the case, I’d just pick the oil that comes in my favourite colour jug.



This is where education helps:

Quote
Bottom Line: You can help your neighbors and friends by educating them on these dangerous oils that have been marketed to the unsuspecting and uninformed public.

Last edited by MolaKule; 02/20/20 03:01 PM.

"As engineers [and scientists] we are wired to solve problems and to create new things, to challenge the status quo and push the limits..." Ken Hurt, Embry-Riddle University, Class of '97.
(NA) (NA) Re: Non-Detergent and Additized Mono-Grades [Re: MolaKule] #5355571 02/20/20 02:52 PM
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exranger06 Offline
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When I worked at a Napa store, I would always warn customers who were buying non-detergent oil. I would tell them, "This is non-detergent, you know that right?" Most of the time they replied with a blank, deer-in-headlights stare. I would then ask what they're using it for. They would usually say it's for a lawnmower or other power equipment. I would then direct them to the SAE 30 "heavy duty" with detergents. Back then, the HD SAE 30 and ND SAE 30 bottles looked almost identical and it was very easy to mix them up. Recently, they've updated the bottles so that the non-detergent looks much different. They've even stopped calling it "motor oil" and started calling it "lubricating oil" instead! Kudos to Napa!
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2006 Ford Ranger Sport
1992 Honda Accord EX
2013 Toyota Sienna XLE AWD
1994 Ford Bronco XLT (project)
2011 Cadillac Escalade ESV (wife's)
(NA) (NA) Re: Non-Detergent and Additized Mono-Grades [Re: MolaKule] #5355826 02/20/20 06:17 PM
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I received a few quarts of that Dollar General ND 30 oil from someone who purchased it for use in a lawn mower. Upon getting home and reading the label they decided not to use it. I've been using it as gun lube and in the oil bath air cleaner of my old tractor.

(NA) (NA) Re: Non-Detergent and Additized Mono-Grades [Re: MolaKule] #5356082 02/20/20 11:10 PM
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bbhero Offline
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I have seen Warren Oil HD API SN SAE 30 grade in a couple of local gas stations near me.

I have also seen ND oils in a few if them too.... Though the labeling of the ND oils was clearly displayed on the front of the quart of oil...

I just bought a qt of Xpress 5w 20 at a gas station just 2.5 miles away from my place... That is a total garbage oil in a store that is in a area that is in a high end area real estate wise...Whereas out in podonk Charles City county there is a local store there that sells nothing but legitimate good oils... At reasonable prices... Heck Formula Shell is $2.79 there everyday price...

I certainly agree about the education part... Which is why I bought that Xpress oil.... Going to bring that to my job as a way of showing details matter... I'm also bringing a qt of Cam2 Dexos1 Gen 2 full synthetic and a qt of Pennzoil... To show my co workers in a staff meeting that details can and do matter...


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Royal Purple 10w30 Carquest red 84356
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
(NA) (NA) Re: Non-Detergent and Additized Mono-Grades [Re: MolaKule] #5356126 02/21/20 01:40 AM
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I keep ND sae 20 & 30 on hand for general lubrication of sliding surfaces or roller chain on my old equipment. Also for servicing the oil bath air cleaner on my ford 8n.
SAE 20 works well for winter use in my shop air compressor.


2001 Mercury Cougar base 2.5l CD4E automatic.
1986 Chevy s10 4x4. mildly built carbed 4.3 700R4 automatic.

(NA) (NA) Re: Non-Detergent and Additized Mono-Grades [Re: MolaKule] #5360826 02/26/20 05:01 PM
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JohnG Offline
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It has been my experience that Non Detergent oils are NOT good for air compressors either. I had an employee, very old school, that insisted upon using ND 30 in our shop air compressor. Over many years, the compressor slowly decided to not make much air, running extremely long times to build pressure. My old mechanic even decided to replace the reed valves and head gaskets, being sure that was the issue. The need for the compressor went away (Mack air starters) so I decided to trade it to another company for an inexpensive airless compressor just to supply shop air.

Later on the new owner came back to tell me that his mechanic tore the compressor apart and found that the rings were stuck. Cleaned them and the compressor ran like new!

A better choice for air compressors would be 46AW hydraulic oil, or whatever detergent oil is called for by the manufacturer.

(NA) (NA) Re: Non-Detergent and Additized Mono-Grades [Re: MolaKule] #5360827 02/26/20 05:03 PM
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JohnG Offline
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ND oils are not good for air compressors either.

(NA) (NA) Re: Non-Detergent and Additized Mono-Grades [Re: MolaKule] #5361536 02/27/20 02:05 PM
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I was under the impression that some modern oils caused excess swelling and or hardening of some of the rope type seals used I am NOT a rope type seal expert, other than know those all leak.

Educate me if I am wrong.

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