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2020 Kia Forte Engine #5331194 01/24/20 04:27 PM
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artbuc Offline OP
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Have looked everywhere but can’t find answer to these questions. Does the 2020 Forte engine line-up include Theta II? Are there any reasons to think new engines replacing Theta II have been substantially improved? From what I read here and on Hyundai/Kia forums, no one knows for sure exactly why Theta II have had so many problems, just lots of theories and speculation. Thanks.

Re: 2020 Kia Forte Engine [Re: artbuc] #5331210 01/24/20 04:59 PM
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skyactiv Offline
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The base engine in the 2020 Kia Forte is the Nu. I'd be more worried about the CVT Hyundai/Kia is now using in these cars for 2020.


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 18' Elantra Sport 6 speed manual
The rude guy that points out reality


Re: 2020 Kia Forte Engine [Re: skyactiv] #5331213 01/24/20 05:07 PM
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gathermewool Online Content
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Originally Posted by skyactiv
I'd be more worried about the CVT Hyundai/Kia is now using in these cars for 2020.


Why?


14 Forester XT Touring FA20DIT (Cobb Stage 1)
Castrol Magnatec 5W-30 D1G2 + FU filter (2nd OFI) (77,760mi, 3/7/20)
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Re: 2020 Kia Forte Engine [Re: gathermewool] #5331225 01/24/20 05:20 PM
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skyactiv Offline
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Originally Posted by gathermewool
Originally Posted by skyactiv
I'd be more worried about the CVT Hyundai/Kia is now using in these cars for 2020.


Why?



The CVT or IVT as Hyundai calls it, might be reliable, who knows. I'm just assuming if 500 people put 150K on these cars, more people are likely to need a CVT replaced vs needing an engine replaced.



Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 18' Elantra Sport 6 speed manual
The rude guy that points out reality


Re: 2020 Kia Forte Engine [Re: artbuc] #5331230 01/24/20 05:25 PM
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SrDriver Offline
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From reading it uses the Nu MPi fuel injected Atkinson Cycle engine with an in house developed CVT transmission that puts out 147 HP. First year of usage in the 2019 KIA Forte.

It is the same engine and transmission that I have in the 2020 KIA Soul.

The Atkinson Cycle version of the Nu MPi 2.0L was first released for the 2017 Hyundai Elantra and it produces 147–154 hp (110–115 kW; 149–156 PS) @ 6,200 rpm with 132 lb⋅ft (179 N⋅m) of torque at 4,500 rpm.

The Atkinson Cycle engine gives better fuel economy than the Otto Cycle Engine.

Re: 2020 Kia Forte Engine [Re: artbuc] #5331262 01/24/20 06:19 PM
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parshisa Offline
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Those Theta 2 engines (G4KD etc) have some design flaws. One of them is lack of the jets in the block that would spray oil on the the bottom of the pistons allowing for better cooling (there are slots for them in the block although they are not installed from the factory). Short skirt piston with bad anfi-friction coating that wears out. Bad catalytic converter placement along with poor material used that leads to early ceramic matrix breakdown and ceramic dust being pulled back into the engine causing cylinder walls scoring and leading to plethora of other issues. There's a great youtube channel Kpower Tuning (in russian only), but those guys rebuild these engines on a daily basis left and right (the vast majority of the engines they work on are low mileage of 50-80K with rod knock due to bad rod bearings, cylinder walls scoring etc etc etc.). Look them up, even you don't understand what they say but you can visually see what the issues actually are - very entertaining to watch.


'17 Honda Civic 1.5T/ 6MT
'16 Honda Pilot 3.5NA/6AT
Re: 2020 Kia Forte Engine [Re: parshisa] #5331287 01/24/20 07:00 PM
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artbuc Offline OP
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Originally Posted by parshisa
Those Theta 2 engines (G4KD etc) have some design flaws. One of them is lack of the jets in the block that would spray oil on the the bottom of the pistons allowing for better cooling (there are slots for them in the block although they are not installed from the factory). Short skirt piston with bad anfi-friction coating that wears out. Bad catalytic converter placement along with poor material used that leads to early ceramic matrix breakdown and ceramic dust being pulled back into the engine causing cylinder walls scoring and leading to plethora of other issues. There's a great youtube channel Kpower Tuning (in russian only), but those guys rebuild these engines on a daily basis left and right (the vast majority of the engines they work on are low mileage of 50-80K with rod knock due to bad rod bearings, cylinder walls scoring etc etc etc.). Look them up, even you don't understand what they say but you can visually see what the issues actually are - very entertaining to watch.


I’ll check that out. Wonder if Kia has addressed these issues with the Nu engine?

Re: 2020 Kia Forte Engine [Re: artbuc] #5331302 01/24/20 07:24 PM
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PimTac Offline
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The Nu is the 2.0. The 1.6 is the Gamma II


2017 Mazda CX5
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Re: 2020 Kia Forte Engine [Re: artbuc] #5331303 01/24/20 07:28 PM
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Propflux01 Offline
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The Nu is also the 1.8L


2014 Hyundai Elantra
2014 Hyundai Elantra GT
Re: 2020 Kia Forte Engine [Re: skyactiv] #5331797 01/25/20 12:53 PM
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cb450sc Offline
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Originally Posted by skyactiv
The base engine in the 2020 Kia Forte is the Nu. I'd be more worried about the CVT Hyundai/Kia is now using in these cars for 2020.


From what I have read, Kia/Hyundai use a chain instead of a belt on their CVT. I don't know if this will make it more reliable or not.

Re: 2020 Kia Forte Engine [Re: artbuc] #5332526 01/26/20 09:49 AM
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All I know is there are times when I can hardly tell my engine is running on the 2019 Forte. MPG's average 40+ in the summer. So far my iVT is smooth and no issues. When in sport mode it feels like a regular auto trans under heavy acceleration. Love it so far.




Re: 2020 Kia Forte Engine [Re: sw99] #5332592 01/26/20 11:05 AM
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Triple_Se7en Offline
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Originally Posted by sw99
All I know is there are times when I can hardly tell my engine is running on the 2019 Forte. MPG's average 40+ in the summer. So far my iVT is smooth and no issues. When in sport mode it feels like a regular auto trans under heavy acceleration. Love it so far.

If yours is the 2,0 MPI, it's a breeze to change the oil. Two holes in the skid plate, round one just big enough to remove the filter and another small hole to unscrew the drain bolt and allow a fast stream of oil, without touching anything nearby.

I changed it - in the same M.O. as my Hyundai 2.4..... removed the dipstick and oil cap first, for faster flow of unleashing used oil. Removed the 2.0 oil with stronger flow-rate, than the 2.4 GDI.

My drain bolt on the Kia was a bear to remove. I needed a fat, long extension bar to unlock it. Must have-been factory installed with an air-tool wrench set too high.
I then swapped-out that factory drain bolt with a magnetic drain bolt purchased online. The factory bolt did not have a washer BTW. None on my Hyundai either.

Last edited by Triple_Se7en; 01/26/20 11:12 AM.

Keep Your Pistons Valves & Injectors Clean

19 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4 GDI
20 Kia Soul X-Line 2.0 MPI - both Pennzoil Ultra Plat. 5W30 / AC Delco PF1127 Ecores
04 Chev Colorado Napa Syn 0w20 & K&N



Re: 2020 Kia Forte Engine [Re: artbuc] #5332652 01/26/20 12:28 PM
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A little bit of misinformation on here but okay. The Theta II GDI engines DO have piston oil cooling jets. The Theta II MPI does NOT have piston oil cooling jets. The Forte/Elantra currently do not use the Theta II. Some of the first gen Forte’s came with the optional 2.4 Theta II MPI.

As for failures, everything I’ve been hearing is that the 2017+ Theta II’s are no longer having widespread failures, 2016 was much improved. The 2015 Sonata debuted the updated and revised Theta II engines (lower power output, e-cvvt, drive ability enhancements). Kia adopted the updated and revised Theta II a year later in the 2016 Optima and Sorento. The last vehicle to get the updated Theta II was the Santa Fe Sport. It got the new engines for the 2017 model year.

So why all the failures in the 2015 and to a lesser extent the 2016 models with the updated Theta II? My guess is within the supply chain. There are several engine factories that assembly these engines globally with local and global part suppliers, and for several years they were building two different versions of the Theta II GDI. I strongly suspect that several internal components of the engines were updated/re-engineered for durability but with different factories building different engine versions for different models AND manufacturers (Hyundai/Kia), there are inevitable assembly delays and part shortages that can be easily rectified by using a part from a different assembly line.

In the US at least, Hyundai builds the Theta II in its engine facility and supplies engines to Kia as well. Transmissions are vice versa to an extent. Now with having two versions of the same basic engine being produced in the same facility, it is very easy, less time consuming, and more cost effective to use parts from the other assembly line if there is ever a parts shortage or delay. Honestly whatever is better for their bottom line $$ they will do. Hence why I strongly suspect that the 2015-2016 updated Theta II engines were still failing. By MY2017 all the engines were getting the updated parts since there was no longer production of the “old” version of the engine. Truthfully, I have no idea why they didn’t just update all the Theta II engines the same time they did the 2015 Sonata. My only guess is it was more cost effective than having to retool multiple assembly lines at once and due to having multiple parts suppliers.

I wouldn’t be worried about the engine in your 2020 Forte. It doesn’t employ GDI and I haven’t heard of big issues with them. The previous generation with GDI has a tendency to develop piston slap and eventual cylinder damage. Engine the new ride!


A couple GM's and a Hyundai.
Re: 2020 Kia Forte Engine [Re: artbuc] #5332661 01/26/20 12:44 PM
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buddylpal Offline
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Oh and btw, I kinda like the new forte. It looks very Jetta-ish. Whenever I see one I always instantly think “Jetta”, especially the side profile. VW has long been Kia’s inspiration, Hyundai is the same with Audi lol.


A couple GM's and a Hyundai.
Re: 2020 Kia Forte Engine [Re: buddylpal] #5332703 01/26/20 01:37 PM
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KrisZ Offline
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Originally Posted by buddylpal
A little bit of misinformation on here but okay. The Theta II GDI engines DO have piston oil cooling jets. The Theta II MPI does NOT have piston oil cooling jets. The Forte/Elantra currently do not use the Theta II. Some of the first gen Forte’s came with the optional 2.4 Theta II MPI.

As for failures, everything I’ve been hearing is that the 2017+ Theta II’s are no longer having widespread failures, 2016 was much improved. The 2015 Sonata debuted the updated and revised Theta II engines (lower power output, e-cvvt, drive ability enhancements). Kia adopted the updated and revised Theta II a year later in the 2016 Optima and Sorento. The last vehicle to get the updated Theta II was the Santa Fe Sport. It got the new engines for the 2017 model year.

So why all the failures in the 2015 and to a lesser extent the 2016 models with the updated Theta II? My guess is within the supply chain. There are several engine factories that assembly these engines globally with local and global part suppliers, and for several years they were building two different versions of the Theta II GDI. I strongly suspect that several internal components of the engines were updated/re-engineered for durability but with different factories building different engine versions for different models AND manufacturers (Hyundai/Kia), there are inevitable assembly delays and part shortages that can be easily rectified by using a part from a different assembly line.

In the US at least, Hyundai builds the Theta II in its engine facility and supplies engines to Kia as well. Transmissions are vice versa to an extent. Now with having two versions of the same basic engine being produced in the same facility, it is very easy, less time consuming, and more cost effective to use parts from the other assembly line if there is ever a parts shortage or delay. Honestly whatever is better for their bottom line $$ they will do. Hence why I strongly suspect that the 2015-2016 updated Theta II engines were still failing. By MY2017 all the engines were getting the updated parts since there was no longer production of the “old” version of the engine. Truthfully, I have no idea why they didn’t just update all the Theta II engines the same time they did the 2015 Sonata. My only guess is it was more cost effective than having to retool multiple assembly lines at once and due to having multiple parts suppliers.

I wouldn’t be worried about the engine in your 2020 Forte. It doesn’t employ GDI and I haven’t heard of big issues with them. The previous generation with GDI has a tendency to develop piston slap and eventual cylinder damage. Engine the new ride!


I don't think you understand how highly automated factories that implement just in time supply delivery work. Lots of components are also serialized and have to be scanned in before assembly and let the system know it was consumed. That's how JIT works and that's how factories can track what options they're building and at what speed. There is no grabbing parts from other lines. If the part is not there, the line simply stops.


2015 Grand Caravan 3.6L - 35k miles.
2006 Mazda 3 2.0L - 186k miles
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