2020 Kia Forte Engine

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Have looked everywhere but can't find answer to these questions. Does the 2020 Forte engine line-up include Theta II? Are there any reasons to think new engines replacing Theta II have been substantially improved? From what I read here and on Hyundai/Kia forums, no one knows for sure exactly why Theta II have had so many problems, just lots of theories and speculation. Thanks.
 
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The base engine in the 2020 Kia Forte is the Nu. I'd be more worried about the CVT Hyundai/Kia is now using in these cars for 2020.
 
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Originally Posted by gathermewool
Originally Posted by skyactiv
I'd be more worried about the CVT Hyundai/Kia is now using in these cars for 2020.
Why?
The CVT or IVT as Hyundai calls it, might be reliable, who knows. I'm just assuming if 500 people put 150K on these cars, more people are likely to need a CVT replaced vs needing an engine replaced.
 
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From reading it uses the Nu MPi fuel injected Atkinson Cycle engine with an in house developed CVT transmission that puts out 147 HP. First year of usage in the 2019 KIA Forte. It is the same engine and transmission that I have in the 2020 KIA Soul. The Atkinson Cycle version of the Nu MPi 2.0L was first released for the 2017 Hyundai Elantra and it produces 147-154 hp (110-115 kW; 149-156 PS) @ 6,200 rpm with 132 lbâ‹…ft (179 Nâ‹…m) of torque at 4,500 rpm. The Atkinson Cycle engine gives better fuel economy than the Otto Cycle Engine.
 
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Those Theta 2 engines (G4KD etc) have some design flaws. One of them is lack of the jets in the block that would spray oil on the the bottom of the pistons allowing for better cooling (there are slots for them in the block although they are not installed from the factory). Short skirt piston with bad anfi-friction coating that wears out. Bad catalytic converter placement along with poor material used that leads to early ceramic matrix breakdown and ceramic dust being pulled back into the engine causing cylinder walls scoring and leading to plethora of other issues. There's a great youtube channel Kpower Tuning (in russian only), but those guys rebuild these engines on a daily basis left and right (the vast majority of the engines they work on are low mileage of 50-80K with rod knock due to bad rod bearings, cylinder walls scoring etc etc etc.). Look them up, even you don't understand what they say but you can visually see what the issues actually are - very entertaining to watch.
 
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Originally Posted by parshisa
Those Theta 2 engines (G4KD etc) have some design flaws. One of them is lack of the jets in the block that would spray oil on the the bottom of the pistons allowing for better cooling (there are slots for them in the block although they are not installed from the factory). Short skirt piston with bad anfi-friction coating that wears out. Bad catalytic converter placement along with poor material used that leads to early ceramic matrix breakdown and ceramic dust being pulled back into the engine causing cylinder walls scoring and leading to plethora of other issues. There's a great youtube channel Kpower Tuning (in russian only), but those guys rebuild these engines on a daily basis left and right (the vast majority of the engines they work on are low mileage of 50-80K with rod knock due to bad rod bearings, cylinder walls scoring etc etc etc.). Look them up, even you don't understand what they say but you can visually see what the issues actually are - very entertaining to watch.
I'll check that out. Wonder if Kia has addressed these issues with the Nu engine?
 
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Originally Posted by skyactiv
The base engine in the 2020 Kia Forte is the Nu. I'd be more worried about the CVT Hyundai/Kia is now using in these cars for 2020.
From what I have read, Kia/Hyundai use a chain instead of a belt on their CVT. I don't know if this will make it more reliable or not.
 
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All I know is there are times when I can hardly tell my engine is running on the 2019 Forte. MPG's average 40+ in the summer. So far my iVT is smooth and no issues. When in sport mode it feels like a regular auto trans under heavy acceleration. Love it so far.
 
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Originally Posted by sw99
All I know is there are times when I can hardly tell my engine is running on the 2019 Forte. MPG's average 40+ in the summer. So far my iVT is smooth and no issues. When in sport mode it feels like a regular auto trans under heavy acceleration. Love it so far.
If yours is the 2,0 MPI, it's a breeze to change the oil. Two holes in the skid plate, round one just big enough to remove the filter and another small hole to unscrew the drain bolt and allow a fast stream of oil, without touching anything nearby. I changed it - in the same M.O. as my Hyundai 2.4..... removed the dipstick and oil cap first, for faster flow of unleashing used oil. Removed the 2.0 oil with stronger flow-rate, than the 2.4 GDI. My drain bolt on the Kia was a bear to remove. I needed a fat, long extension bar to unlock it. Must have-been factory installed with an air-tool wrench set too high. I then swapped-out that factory drain bolt with a magnetic drain bolt purchased online. The factory bolt did not have a washer BTW. None on my Hyundai either.
 
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A little bit of misinformation on here but okay. The Theta II GDI engines DO have piston oil cooling jets. The Theta II MPI does NOT have piston oil cooling jets. The Forte/Elantra currently do not use the Theta II. Some of the first gen Forte's came with the optional 2.4 Theta II MPI. As for failures, everything I've been hearing is that the 2017+ Theta II's are no longer having widespread failures, 2016 was much improved. The 2015 Sonata debuted the updated and revised Theta II engines (lower power output, e-cvvt, drive ability enhancements). Kia adopted the updated and revised Theta II a year later in the 2016 Optima and Sorento. The last vehicle to get the updated Theta II was the Santa Fe Sport. It got the new engines for the 2017 model year. So why all the failures in the 2015 and to a lesser extent the 2016 models with the updated Theta II? My guess is within the supply chain. There are several engine factories that assembly these engines globally with local and global part suppliers, and for several years they were building two different versions of the Theta II GDI. I strongly suspect that several internal components of the engines were updated/re-engineered for durability but with different factories building different engine versions for different models AND manufacturers (Hyundai/Kia), there are inevitable assembly delays and part shortages that can be easily rectified by using a part from a different assembly line. In the US at least, Hyundai builds the Theta II in its engine facility and supplies engines to Kia as well. Transmissions are vice versa to an extent. Now with having two versions of the same basic engine being produced in the same facility, it is very easy, less time consuming, and more cost effective to use parts from the other assembly line if there is ever a parts shortage or delay. Honestly whatever is better for their bottom line $$ they will do. Hence why I strongly suspect that the 2015-2016 updated Theta II engines were still failing. By MY2017 all the engines were getting the updated parts since there was no longer production of the "old" version of the engine. Truthfully, I have no idea why they didn't just update all the Theta II engines the same time they did the 2015 Sonata. My only guess is it was more cost effective than having to retool multiple assembly lines at once and due to having multiple parts suppliers. I wouldn't be worried about the engine in your 2020 Forte. It doesn't employ GDI and I haven't heard of big issues with them. The previous generation with GDI has a tendency to develop piston slap and eventual cylinder damage. Engine the new ride!
 
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Oh and btw, I kinda like the new forte. It looks very Jetta-ish. Whenever I see one I always instantly think "Jetta", especially the side profile. VW has long been Kia's inspiration, Hyundai is the same with Audi lol.
 
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Originally Posted by buddylpal
A little bit of misinformation on here but okay. The Theta II GDI engines DO have piston oil cooling jets. The Theta II MPI does NOT have piston oil cooling jets. The Forte/Elantra currently do not use the Theta II. Some of the first gen Forte's came with the optional 2.4 Theta II MPI. As for failures, everything I've been hearing is that the 2017+ Theta II's are no longer having widespread failures, 2016 was much improved. The 2015 Sonata debuted the updated and revised Theta II engines (lower power output, e-cvvt, drive ability enhancements). Kia adopted the updated and revised Theta II a year later in the 2016 Optima and Sorento. The last vehicle to get the updated Theta II was the Santa Fe Sport. It got the new engines for the 2017 model year. So why all the failures in the 2015 and to a lesser extent the 2016 models with the updated Theta II? My guess is within the supply chain. There are several engine factories that assembly these engines globally with local and global part suppliers, and for several years they were building two different versions of the Theta II GDI. I strongly suspect that several internal components of the engines were updated/re-engineered for durability but with different factories building different engine versions for different models AND manufacturers (Hyundai/Kia), there are inevitable assembly delays and part shortages that can be easily rectified by using a part from a different assembly line. In the US at least, Hyundai builds the Theta II in its engine facility and supplies engines to Kia as well. Transmissions are vice versa to an extent. Now with having two versions of the same basic engine being produced in the same facility, it is very easy, less time consuming, and more cost effective to use parts from the other assembly line if there is ever a parts shortage or delay. Honestly whatever is better for their bottom line $$ they will do. Hence why I strongly suspect that the 2015-2016 updated Theta II engines were still failing. By MY2017 all the engines were getting the updated parts since there was no longer production of the "old" version of the engine. Truthfully, I have no idea why they didn't just update all the Theta II engines the same time they did the 2015 Sonata. My only guess is it was more cost effective than having to retool multiple assembly lines at once and due to having multiple parts suppliers. I wouldn't be worried about the engine in your 2020 Forte. It doesn't employ GDI and I haven't heard of big issues with them. The previous generation with GDI has a tendency to develop piston slap and eventual cylinder damage. Engine the new ride!
I don't think you understand how highly automated factories that implement just in time supply delivery work. Lots of components are also serialized and have to be scanned in before assembly and let the system know it was consumed. That's how JIT works and that's how factories can track what options they're building and at what speed. There is no grabbing parts from other lines. If the part is not there, the line simply stops.
 
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No actually I know very well how assembly lines work and about just in time inventory. Assembly line halts are a worst nightmare due to cost, lost productivity, and profits. Has anyone seen how hyundai/Kia transfers parts from West Point, Georgia KMMG and Montgomery, Alabama HMMA? I have, I‘ve seen the plant tour for both. They non stop move product from one companies manufacturing facility to the other. A truck will leave from the Kia plant with parts and unload at the Hyundai factory. That same truck then takes a trailer full of parts from the Hyundai facility and takes them to Georgia for Kia. It's 24 hours non stop.
 
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Just because they ship parts between themselves, which makes total sense as you don't want to send out empty trailers, doesnt mean they change parts on the fly for the engine components. At least that's how I interpreted your earlier post. These things are planned ahead by supply chain and part shortage may very well be a problem, but they wouldn't send updated parts to various plants, only to revert back, due to part shortage. Whoever was in charge of such shenanigans would get fired in a heart beat. If they truly had a redesigned part, but not enough for all plants, they would fully retool one and leave the rest as is. Then move on to more as the supply picks up. There would not be any trickling of parts just to cover all plants for a short while. If there is, like I said earlier, someone needs to be fired.
 
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Well, I'm not going to engage with this any further really. But HMMA built the Theta II in Alabama and for the 2015 model year they built two different versions, the updated version for the 2015 sonata and the old version for the optima and sorento and by MY2016 failures have been a lot less, which coincides when HMMA started building only the updated version. Hyundai is very controlling of their suppliers, more so than most automakers, Hyundai Mobis controls everything on their watch, they are in total control of nearly every process. With Hyundai being very tight lipped about the engine failure fiasco and their original stance that manufacturing debris caused the failures, I wouldn't put anything past them. My work is in the automotive consulting business. I work with auto manufacturers on finding ways to reduce business costs, my area of expertise is strictly regarding vehicle exteriors. Parts can change upon a moments notice while on the assembly line. When the 2013 Accord, Altima, and Sentra came standard with chrome exterior door handles, that was a requested cost cutting measure requested by the OEM's. Also after the tsunami of 2011 the Japanese makers were looking for ways to use less paint coating. Not having to paint door handles for several different colors and just using chrome across the trim levels saved them money in the long run. Anyway, from how I see things, it looks like Hyundai/Kia got a handle on their engine issue by 2016 for the most part. My very educated guess is that 2017+MY's have a failure rate that is acceptable by industry OEM industry standards. At that point all the suppliers had converted to producing parts for the "updated" engines.
 

CKN

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Originally Posted by buddylpal
Well, I'm not going to engage with this any further really. But HMMA built the Theta II in Alabama and for the 2015 model year they built two different versions, the updated version for the 2015 sonata and the old version for the optima and sorento and by MY2016 failures have been a lot less, which coincides when HMMA started building only the updated version. Hyundai is very controlling of their suppliers, more so than most automakers, Hyundai Mobis controls everything on their watch, they are in total control of nearly every process. With Hyundai being very tight lipped about the engine failure fiasco and their original stance that manufacturing debris caused the failures, I wouldn't put anything past them. My work is in the automotive consulting business. I work with auto manufacturers on finding ways to reduce business costs, my area of expertise is strictly regarding vehicle exteriors. Parts can change upon a moments notice while on the assembly line. When the 2013 Accord, Altima, and Sentra came standard with chrome exterior door handles, that was a requested cost cutting measure requested by the OEM's. Also after the tsunami of 2011 the Japanese makers were looking for ways to use less paint coating. Not having to paint door handles for several different colors and just using chrome across the trim levels saved them money in the long run. Anyway, from how I see things, it looks like Hyundai/Kia got a handle on their engine issue by 2016 for the most part. My very educated guess is that 2017+MY's have a failure rate that is acceptable by industry OEM industry standards. At that point all the suppliers had converted to producing parts for the "updated" engines.
Educated "guesses" are not allowed on BITOG. Only ponification, hearsay, and a "friend of a friend of a friends" experiences regarding ownership. LOL
 
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