It doesn't really matter which oil you use

[jimbrewer]

One thing I notice is that there is an OCI ceiling. Nobody changes any fluid any more conscientiously than he changes the oil. Usually it's worse. Often a lot worse.

When was the last time you ever heard of anyone obsessively changing the coolant?

 

[ChrisD46]

*Within reason , say for a SN rated 5W30 oil ... Running 20W50 during winter in North Dakota may present some challenges .
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
The longer I read BITOG and the more UOAs I see the more I'm convinced you could use any quality oil in any viscosity for any normal application (possibly excluding track cars or extreme towing, etc) because it just doesn't matter. Honestly, when is the last time you saw any data to suggest oil brand, certs or even viscosity was the cause of any adverse outcome for an engine?

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted by PWMDMD
The longer I read BITOG and the more UOAs I see the more I'm convinced you could use any quality oil in any viscosity for any normal application (possibly excluding track cars or extreme towing, etc) because it just doesn't matter. Honestly, when is the last time you saw any data to suggest oil brand, certs or even viscosity was the cause of any adverse outcome for an engine?



In general terms and jn general use, for the average guy that makes up the majority of the population youre right, so long as the level is correct then youre good.

For specific examples of lube related failure in the short term, look at all the thousands of camshaft/lifter failures on old hot rods and new vw tdis because of lack of zinc.
For specific examples of lube related failure in the long term look at sludge. Admittedly due to negligence, but specifically caused by the oil.

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted by jimbrewer
I see quite a few ridiculously short OCI UOAs posted here.

In the aggregate we're learning. No one says a 3k oci is advisable and no one talks about using 10w-40 oil unless it's for a diesel.


Those concerned with warranty-compliance dont speak of 10w40, but a lot of the rest of the world like those numbers very much

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Our 2006 TSX, with the mighty K24, has had a steady diet of Mobil1

The engine is spotless.

Would it be the same if I had used dino or ST?


Is it possible Mobil1 has extra detergent?


A quality synthetic and sufficiently frequent oil changes will prevent sludge, coking and oxidation. Whether this matters or not really depends on the engine in question. I'd suggest that the purchaser of a newer or changed design has no way to predict what's needed. So my recommendation is always to choose a quality synthetic, of sufficient viscosity and change it frequently (severe service interval) .

It would be nice to think that modern engines are mechanically trouble free. Nothing could be further from the truth. Modern engines have a number of compromises that can affect longevity. Furthermore, few manufacturers use higher quality internals as a result of those changes.

 

[RDY4WAR]

I don't care much for modern API limits to phosphorus and sulfated ash. I feel like they compromise wear protection for sake of that 1% of vehicles that burns excessive amounts of oil and poisons emissions systems. I like older, stronger add packs with more detergents, anti-wear, and anti-friction from the API SL and CI-4 days. I'm also invested in the racing industry so I like to support the companies that support us.

That said, I'm not the commoner. I don't baby my vehicles and then trade them in before they reach 150k miles. I beat the snot out of them and run them until the wheels fall off. My 2002 Tahoe 5.3L has 258k miles, and I tow a 6,200 lb load with it just about every weekend between March and November. I want it to keep doing that for another 258k miles.

To me, oil is cheap. Whether it's $4/qt or $14/qt, it's still really cheap maintenance. Use whatever you feel works best for you.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted by Olas
Originally Posted by jimbrewer
I see quite a few ridiculously short OCI UOAs posted here.

In the aggregate we're learning. No one says a 3k oci is advisable and no one talks about using 10w-40 oil unless it's for a diesel.


Those concerned with warranty-compliance dont speak of 10w40, but a lot of the rest of the world like those numbers very much


Yep, I'm running DuraBlend 10W40 in my gas (petrol) car right now. A very popular grade in Oz.

 

[SR5]

I've posted this before recently, but it does support what the OP is saying.

Here is the owners manual from Australia for a 2018 Camry Hybrid, it says you can use 0W16, 0W20, 5W20, 5W30, 10W30 or 15W40

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4890579/1

For 15W40 Toyota say to use API SL or SM or SN.

Can't call that too fussy, 0w16 to 15W40, SL to SN, in a modern car, in the factory owners manual.

Just make sure you have the correct cold starting ability for your climate, and the oil is changed at reasonable intervals. Job done.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by SR5
I've posted this before recently, but it does support what the OP is saying.

Here is the owners manual from Australia for a 2018 Camry Hybrid, it says you can use 0W16, 0W20, 5W20, 5W30, 10W30 or 15W40

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4890579/1

For 15W40 Toyota say to use API SL or SM or SN.

Can't call that too fussy, 0w16 to 15W40, SL to SN, in a modern car, in the factory owners manual.

Just make sure you have the correct cold starting ability for your climate, and the oil is changed at reasonable intervals. Job done.

Yeah, I've seen that thread. My guess is the engine builders wrote that section of the owners manual and it made it out the door before the marketing dept or in house CAFE expert could proof it....‚

 

[joekingcorvette]

I tend to agree with the OP. I do believe you should use the weight recommendation of the owners manual however I believe if you change your oil frequently the vehicle should last a very long time. Probably longer than 99% of the owners out there would ever keep a vehicle. The trick is to start with a very low mileage or well maintained vehicle and go from there. I don't really think it matters if you use a Super Tech synthetic or a Kirkland or a Mobil 1 they all should last a long time. There is a reason they make dozens of oils and it is because everyone has their favorites just like with beers, foods, tires, or anything else consumable or usable. I have seen lots of 20 year old vehicles that have been questionably maintained and they till keep running with less then basic maintenance. That's all folks!

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by Bud
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
The longer I read BITOG and the more UOAs I see the more I'm convinced you could use any quality oil in any viscosity for any normal application (possibly excluding track cars or extreme towing, etc) because it just doesn't matter. Honestly, when is the last time you saw any data to suggest oil brand, certs or even viscosity was the cause of any adverse outcome for an engine?

I would venture to say everyone already knows this is correct.

Everyone is a rather bold statement.



Just put Subaru oil in the subaru again.

After two "glowing" UOA.

Now, the engine responds and sound MUCH better than it has the past two years..

So

Big disagree.

The UOA isnt MY final arbiter.

I have other criteria to consider.

Also hydrailic VVT cam phasers in modern engines DO NOT TOLERATE straying from intended viscosity.

Light reciprocating assemblies and tight a/f and ig tuning do not tolerate moving to an overly viscous oil that would overly damp moving parts.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by joekingcorvette
I tend to agree with the OP. I do believe you should use the weight recommendation of the owners manual however I believe if you change your oil frequently the vehicle should last a very long time. Probably longer than 99% of the owners out there would ever keep a vehicle. The trick is to start with a very low mileage or well maintained vehicle and go from there. I don't really think it matters if you use a Super Tech synthetic or a Kirkland or a Mobil 1 they all should last a long time. There is a reason they make dozens of oils and it is because everyone has their favorites just like with beers, foods, tires, or anything else consumable or usable. I have seen lots of 20 year old vehicles that have been questionably maintained and they till keep running with less then basic maintenance. That's all folks!

I disagree!
Do you have any idea on how many of today's passenger vehicles are TGDI / GDI? They weren't around USA 20 years ago and few were here 10 years ago.
Brand matters with these new fangled engines. Viscosity / grade matters. SN Plus mattters and Dexos is the strictest cert and that's important to folks that keep their TGDI vehicles from birth until death.

Getting rid of that vehicle prematurely?.... then run whatever housebrand and any viscosity you desire.
I sure would, if that were the case.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite

Also hydraulic VVT cam phasers in modern engines DO NOT TOLERATE straying from intended viscosity.


That is not true for a number of current production engines. In fact, temperatures affect oil viscosity far more than chosen grade. Do the variable cam timimg components stop working when operating these engines in cold climates?

 

[Imp4]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Do you have any idea on how many of today's passenger vehicles are TGDI / GDI? They weren't around USA 20 years ago and few were here 10 years ago.
Brand matters with these new fangled engines.
Viscosity / grade matters. SN Plus mattters and Dexos is the strictest cert and that's important to folks that keep their TGDI vehicles from birth until death.

Getting rid of that vehicle prematurely?.... then run whatever housebrand and any viscosity you desire.
I sure would, if that were the case.

I like much of what you've said here until you got to the part where brand mattered.
Performance specs matter.
Brands do not, unless your salary comes from the marketing department.

 

[Bud]

Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by Bud
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
The longer I read BITOG and the more UOAs I see the more I'm convinced you could use any quality oil in any viscosity for any normal application (possibly excluding track cars or extreme towing, etc) because it just doesn't matter. Honestly, when is the last time you saw any data to suggest oil brand, certs or even viscosity was the cause of any adverse outcome for an engine?

I would venture to say everyone already knows this is correct.

Everyone is a rather bold statement.

I knew I should have put, everyone on the BITOG board.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite

Also hydraulic VVT cam phasers in modern engines DO NOT TOLERATE straying from intended viscosity.


That is not true for a number of current production engines. In fact, temperatures affect oil viscosity far more than chosen grade. Do the variable cam timimg components stop working when operating these engines in cold climates?


Exactly.

 

[billpace1956]

Interesting statement sir. On my 2008 toyota sienna van the oci is 5,000 miles. While I have not gone 20,000 miles over the factory oci I have gone 17,000 miles over the factory oci. The van now has over 334,000 miles on it. I use mobil 1 5w-30 ep oil and have used blackstone labs uoa's to see how things were going on inside the engine. Blackstone labs said all was well. I'm not sure if a conventional oil would have done that or not. Maybe it would have as you are saying. The van does not use any makeup oil between oci's. Also, when I went into the Toyota dealer here in Tucson, the service rep said I could only go 5,000 miles per oci whether or not if I used a conventional oil or a synthetic oil. I thought that was an interesting statement as well. I never went back to the dealer after that day. I just started to change my own oil and used a synthetic oil with great success. Thank You, Bill

 

[BLND1]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by SR5
I've posted this before recently, but it does support what the OP is saying.

Here is the owners manual from Australia for a 2018 Camry Hybrid, it says you can use 0W16, 0W20, 5W20, 5W30, 10W30 or 15W40

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4890579/1

For 15W40 Toyota say to use API SL or SM or SN.

Can't call that too fussy, 0w16 to 15W40, SL to SN, in a modern car, in the factory owners manual.

Just make sure you have the correct cold starting ability for your climate, and the oil is changed at reasonable intervals. Job done.

Yeah, I've seen that thread. My guess is the engine builders wrote that section of the owners manual and it made it out the door before the marketing dept or in house CAFE expert could proof it....‚


US CAFE requirements. Not Australia.

Toyota did the same thing with the 1GR-FE (v6 Tacoma, tundra, hilux, landcruiser, etc.).

In Australia they recommend 5w30 below 60F. 10w30 above 0F, 15w40 above 10F, and 20w50!! Above 30F.

In the US? 5w30 in all temps.

CAFE requires the grade used in testing to be the grade in the manual and on the fuel cap. Manufacturers in the US are absolutely beholden to CAFE.

Outside of warranty I look to the global market recommendations and base my oil grade choice on the temperature charts provided there.

 

[Gebo]

Originally Posted by jimbrewer
I see quite a few ridiculously short OCI UOAs posted here.

In the aggregate we're learning. No one says a 3k oci is advisable....


Be easy. You are close to hurting mine and Lewis's feelings.

 

[Kira]

While 334,000 miles should awaken a mechanic's capacity to have a clear conversation you have to appreciate the fact that these guys exist in a brain cell killing, stultified world where venturing away from the script targets them for in-house ridicule.

Goes double for the sales dept. Don't get me wrong.....I don't like 'em either.