It doesn't really matter which oil you use

[PWMDMD]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by PWMDMD

Clearly! The vast majority of BITOGers still think oil selection is akin to quantum mechanics.....

Ah, the Quantum; the interconnectedness...


Everyone knows quantum chromodynamics is where it's at!

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
The longer I read BITOG and the more UOAs I see the more I'm convinced you could use any quality oil in any viscosity for any normal application (possibly excluding track cars or extreme towing, etc) because it just doesn't matter. Honestly, when is the last time you saw any data to suggest oil brand, certs or even viscosity was the cause of any adverse outcome for an engine?

Yet we continue to see short lived engines, engines with heavy sludge, etc.


Where?! Where are the heavy sludge engines which are clearly related to oil selection and oil selection only that weren't on the 30,000 mile OCI?

Where those that abuse there OCI with Dino are asking for varnish( that can lead to coked rings) and sludge. A higher quality synthetic greatly reduces that problem. Also many engine builders today suggest Synthetics over dino from the factory. I say oil quality does make a difference, especially if you plan to keep your vehicle for several hundreds of thousands of miles like I do with longer OCIs.

 

[PWMDMD]

Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
The longer I read BITOG and the more UOAs I see the more I'm convinced you could use any quality oil in any viscosity for any normal application (possibly excluding track cars or extreme towing, etc) because it just doesn't matter. Honestly, when is the last time you saw any data to suggest oil brand, certs or even viscosity was the cause of any adverse outcome for an engine?

Yet we continue to see short lived engines, engines with heavy sludge, etc.


Where?! Where are the heavy sludge engines which are clearly related to oil selection and oil selection only that weren't on the 30,000 mile OCI?

Where those that abuse there OCI with Dino are asking for varnish( that can lead to coked rings) and sludge. A higher quality synthetic greatly reduces that problem. Also many engine builders today suggest Synthetics over dino from the factory. I say oil quality does make a difference, especially if you plan to keep your vehicle for several hundreds of thousands of miles like I do with longer OCIs.


Ok...I'll state the obvious. No where did I say the OCI wasn't important. Most of us aren't debating the effect of oil selection on willfully disregarding OCI by going over it by 20K miles. Let me be clearer....for a given oil type viscosity, brand, GTL vs PAO, MOLY, etc, etc makes little to no difference. Arguing 0W-20 PP vs 0W-30 AFE for a given engine application is just rubbish!

 

[Imp4]

Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Everyone knows quantum chromodynamics is where it's at!

No, no, no!!!
It's actually rocket surgery that makes the cut!!!

 

[jimbrewer]

I see quite a few ridiculously short OCI UOAs posted here.

In the aggregate we're learning. No one says a 3k oci is advisable and no one talks about using 10w-40 oil unless it's for a diesel.

 

[PWMDMD]

Originally Posted by jimbrewer
I see quite a few ridiculously short OCI UOAs posted here.

In the aggregate we're learning. No one says a 3k oci is advisable and no one talks about using 10w-40 oil unless it's for a diesel.


Precisely! In the aggregate the only logical conclusion is that within reason considering type, viscosity, brand and certs it doesn't really matter which oil you choose.

 

[bbhero]

Overall....

I believe you are correct in your thread title.

I also believe that certain oils can be a "step above" others... Though in all typical everyday regular use... For almost 99 percent of regular drivers it would not matter or help them.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted by PWMDMD
The longer I read BITOG and the more UOAs I see the more I'm convinced you could use any quality oil in any viscosity for any normal application (possibly excluding track cars or extreme towing, etc) because it just doesn't matter. Honestly, when is the last time you saw any data to suggest oil brand, certs or even viscosity was the cause of any adverse outcome for an engine?


Note: I've been involved in actual wear testing of oil and grease.

UOA results do not reflect engine wear rates, despite the various and frequent claims that they do.

Think about it logically for a bit, and describe which ferrous part is wearing, and by how much, and even if it matters, when we look at iron numbers. The assumption that it's the cylinder walls and general engine wear is utterly absurd. To say it's the cylinders not the Cam/followers/rollers/lifters/pushrods/rockers/lash adjusters?, High pressure fuel pump? Oil pump gears/rotors?, Timing chain and sprockets? ETC is simply wrong. Tell me the particulate sizes and counts and maybe we have a little more information.

Take the engine apart, inspect and measure with a scanning electron microscope and now we are talking wear rates. Anything else is close to meaningless, unless the UOA shows a massive change, which then indicates a failing component. BTW, aircraft engine UOA are often mandatory and are well known NOT TO indicate condition.

Nor will a UOA tell you anything about a coked up turbocharger hot side when an owner chooses to use a lower quality oil that meets spec. What about the rash of carbon stuck piston rings and blocked piston oil drain holes? Would a UOA show that (answer no) and would a synthetic solve that (answer yes) . Same goes for timing chains, which wear significantly faster on thin oils, especially when fuel dilution is involved.

Dealerships regularly repair and replace engines whose owners and maintainers used "any oil" and "any viscosity". With the notable exception of Kia/Hyundai, the engines/components most often fail from poor maintenance practices, low quality, too low a viscosity and extended drain intervals.

 

[andyd]

PCMO is one of the few things where quantity is more important than "quality". The most important issue with PCMO is keeping the level above the bottom dot on the dipstick.

 

[4WD]

Cujet … that's close to what we hear from CAT. Also, they have zero interest in an oil sample from a sump.
We take samples from a valve on a cooler line while engine is hot and under load.
Sometimes an additional sample goes to MobilServ for advanced testing. (CAT oil manufacturer)

Engines receive various levels of rebuild based on run hours within the Basis of Design … not UOA.
UOA just verify within specs … they don't buy you a pass to run the oil past recommended OCI.

 

[WMSmotorhead]

I think that OP is exaggerating a bit too much. In general, if you use Auto Part store brand, or Major brand oil in the specs your car calls for, you'll be fine for a commuter vehicle. My father was loyal to his major brand oil, and "never had a problem"... but I, the rebellious (and cheap) son, decided that Auto part store oil would be just fine. I asked my store manager what they put in their delivery trucks, and they said "Our Brand"...and "Our Filters" this oil is presently made by Warren Dist.

Since 2001, I've been buying oil from these guys, and every car/truck/van I own or maintain is retired due to rust, with the engines still running well, and NOT using oil. Since they salt roads in my state, vehicles usually have a 5-15 year life-span before rust eats them, if they are used on the salted winter roads. "not using oil" is defined by me as NOT requiring any oil added in the 5k OCI period.

If it's good enough for the delivery vans that run all day long, it's fine for my delivery van too. Pretty much every vehicle I've owned has called for 5w-30, and later models 5w-20... they are on the 5K mile interval on the "blend" oil from the auto parts store.... it's always worked for me.

I think OP is just frustrated at how deeply folks here dig super deep into finding "the best" oil ever. For Mr. Average's car, it's not a big deal, but If I had a fleet of delivery vans that ran ALL DAY, it would be worth the research to see if there is superior engine protection available. If I wanted to ensure over 300K miles per vehicle, sure!......as it stands, by the time I approach 200K miles, the vehicle is suffering crippling rust.

 

[LotI]

OP, many experts have said its more about regular changes than the brand or grade(not weight, slackers) of the oil. If it's from a reputable company kept full in the crankcase for a short time the engine will just keep ticking along...barring design faults.

The best part of this group is the sales & rebates so I can stay stocked up on the latest oils at discount prices. Thanks!

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
The longer I read BITOG and the more UOAs I see the more I'm convinced you could use any quality oil in any viscosity for any normal application (possibly excluding track cars or extreme towing, etc) because it just doesn't matter. Honestly, when is the last time you saw any data to suggest oil brand, certs or even viscosity was the cause of any adverse outcome for an engine?


Note: I've been involved in actual wear testing of oil and grease.

UOA results do not reflect engine wear rates, despite the various and frequent claims that they do.

Think about it logically for a bit, and describe which ferrous part is wearing, and by how much, and even if it matters, when we look at iron numbers. The assumption that it's the cylinder walls and general engine wear is utterly absurd. To say it's the cylinders not the Cam/followers/rollers/lifters/pushrods/rockers/lash adjusters?, High pressure fuel pump? Oil pump gears/rotors?, Timing chain and sprockets? ETC is simply wrong. Tell me the particulate sizes and counts and maybe we have a little more information.

Take the engine apart, inspect and measure with a scanning electron microscope and now we are talking wear rates. Anything else is close to meaningless, unless the UOA shows a massive change, which then indicates a failing component. BTW, aircraft engine UOA are often mandatory and are well known NOT TO indicate condition.

Nor will a UOA tell you anything about a coked up turbocharger hot side when an owner chooses to use a lower quality oil that meets spec. What about the rash of carbon stuck piston rings and blocked piston oil drain holes? Would a UOA show that (answer no) and would a synthetic solve that (answer yes) . Same goes for timing chains, which wear significantly faster on thin oils, especially when fuel dilution is involved.

Dealerships regularly repair and replace engines whose owners and maintainers used "any oil" and "any viscosity". With the notable exception of Kia/Hyundai, the engines/components most often fail from poor maintenance practices, low quality, too low a viscosity and extended drain intervals.






Very well said. As for me and my engines, I prefer a higher quality synthetic compared to a lower quality dino. I do 10K OCIs with ease. I would not do that with any dino oil.

 

[blupupher]

I have said similar several times.

I think since API SM, synthetic oil quality has been "good enough" for most any "regular" vehicle doing a factory OCI.
SN and SN+ has raised the bar even into the conventional oil range as well.

Sure there are outliers, but for the majority, oil brand does not matter.

Oil spec and price is what I look at when I buy oil.

 

[4WD]

All ships rise with the same tide. The majors are making better GII/GIII base stocks which has improved the Dexos 1.2 entry level lubes with an OLM target (or less as user defined).
While I feel confident that the label term "synthetic" is being stretched more and more … it's not hurting anything so bureaucratic types just stay away !

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by 4WD
Cujet … that's close to what we hear from CAT. Also, they have zero interest in an oil sample from a sump.
We take samples from a valve on a cooler line while engine is hot and under load.
Sometimes an additional sample goes to MobilServ for advanced testing. (CAT oil manufacturer)

Engines receive various levels of rebuild based on run hours within the Basis of Design … not UOA.
UOA just verify within specs … they don't buy you a pass to run the oil past recommended OCI.



Interesting points/post 4wd... Makes sense to me.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I kinda wonder... Our 2006 TSX, with the mighty K24, has had a steady diet of Mobil1 5w30 and M1 or Wix filters for almost 195K miles.
I used 5w20 for awhile and Idemitsu 0w20 on accident once...
Pretty much 5K to 6K OCI.

The engine is spotless. I had the valves adjusted a short time ago; the shop could not believe the mileage due to cleanliness.
Would it be the same if I had used dino or ST?
I will never know.
This was the 1st time the valve cover was off.

Is it possible Mobil1 has extra detergent?
I am just wondering; these kinda questions are above my paygrade.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by PWMDMD
The longer I read BITOG and the more UOAs I see the more I'm convinced you could use any quality oil in any viscosity for any normal application (possibly excluding track cars or extreme towing, etc) because it just doesn't matter. Honestly, when is the last time you saw any data to suggest oil brand, certs or even viscosity was the cause of any adverse outcome for an engine?

You're brave.....‚..a statement like that might get you run off this board by the oil snobbery crowd.

Speaking of, where are they??🤔

 

[tundraotto]

^ clean new oil is better than older "best oil".......or what -how -why?

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Arguing 0W-20 PP vs 0W-30 AFE for a given engine application is just rubbish!


Typically, those who "argue 0W-20 PP vs 0W-30 AFE" also change the oil way, way, way ,way before it needs to be changed.