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External ATF filter cut open with pictures #5263595 11/10/19 07:06 PM
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grjr Offline OP
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Car is a '99 Camry 2.2L (112k mi) with a Derale external oil filter installed on the A140E trans. Using a Supertech ST16 filter for about 10k miles and 8 months and this is what it looks like. This is the first time I've cut open my oil filters and I'm guessing all the dark material that you can see is friction material from inside the transaxle, am I correct in assuming this? Fluid was fairly dark before I ran a few gallons of Supertech Dexron through it to get it cleaned up. Now that the weather is getting colder I've noticed that when first starting up the car that it seems to take a few seconds (5 sec?) for the trans to fully engage during which it feels like the trans is slipping. I have run Lucas transfix in it, though probably only a 1/4 of the bottle, I may be adding more to see if it helps any. The ST16 was replaced with a Fram XG16.

IMG_8112.JPGIMG_8113.JPGIMG_8114.JPGIMG_8115.JPG
Re: External ATF filter cut open with pictures [Re: grjr] #5263779 11/11/19 01:14 AM
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WyrTwister Offline
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Do not see any metal in the media .


Wyr
God bless
Re: External ATF filter cut open with pictures [Re: grjr] #5263787 11/11/19 02:11 AM
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Cdn17Sport6MT Offline
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Are you running that filter on the line out to the in-rad cooler... (or for that matter, on the line back from the cooler) - or are you running it as a bypass filter... between the two cooler lines? If the former, it may be restricting flow as it packs-up with wear materials.

My way of thinking is to run a really tight media filter in bypass arrangement, and then for summertime or summertime + shoulder season time - to run an ATF cooler in front of the rad... on the line coming OUT of the in-rad cooler loop. Those stacked-plate Hayden coolers, with the so-called thermal bypass are nice.


Mazda6 GX (Sport in the 'States), 6MT, 2017
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (Euro version), 1985
Honda Civic Si (EX 2 dr. in the 'States), A/T, 1997
Toyota Camry CE, 5MT, 1999
VW (Type2) Kombi, 4MT, 1979
Re: External ATF filter cut open with pictures [Re: grjr] #5263817 11/11/19 05:12 AM
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Mr Nice Offline
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3rd photo is the ‘slime’ from the metal shavings.

Nice photos.

Re: External ATF filter cut open with pictures [Re: grjr] #5263876 11/11/19 07:00 AM
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JHZR2 Offline
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Does this AT have a magnet inside?

Good pics, sort of surprising how nasty the media looks. But it might not really be a lot of anything. Kind of like how the slightest bit of diesel soot makes clean oil look black.

Re: External ATF filter cut open with pictures [Re: JHZR2] #5264459 11/11/19 06:27 PM
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grjr Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Are you running that filter on the line out to the in-rad cooler... (or for that matter, on the line back from the cooler) - or are you running it as a bypass filter... between the two cooler lines? If the former, it may be restricting flow as it packs-up with wear materials.

My way of thinking is to run a really tight media filter in bypass arrangement, and then for summertime or summertime + shoulder season time - to run an ATF cooler in front of the rad... on the line coming OUT of the in-rad cooler loop. Those stacked-plate Hayden coolers, with the so-called thermal bypass are nice.


filter is inline with the cooler line to the radiator, don't remember if I put it before or after the radiator (it was quite a while ago). Don't have any additional cooling for the ATF, I don't think I need it since this car isn't driven under heavy loads.

Originally Posted by JHZR2
Does this AT have a magnet inside?

Good pics, sort of surprising how nasty the media looks. But it might not really be a lot of anything. Kind of like how the slightest bit of diesel soot makes clean oil look black.


yes there are a couple of small magnets in the pan, I've changed the internal filter once... it just uses a fine metal mesh screen to keep bits out of the inner workings.

If you guys are saying it is metallic, I might take a magnet to it and see how it reacts.

Re: External ATF filter cut open with pictures [Re: grjr] #5264645 11/11/19 10:59 PM
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TheLoneRanger Offline
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Something is not right here. The filter media should not be that dark, especially for the relatively short
time it was in service with new ATF.

Are you certain the fluid flow direction is correct, going in and out of the Derale filter housing?


Some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you.....
Re: External ATF filter cut open with pictures [Re: grjr] #5264964 11/12/19 11:44 AM
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Cdn17Sport6MT Offline
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Running the filter in-line with the cooling flow to the rad tank cooler loop means the filter media has to be fairly coarse (and if fluid is dirty enough it could still plug or reduce cooler flow). I think cooler flow actually feeds / acts as a lubricating / oil feed for something... with bad results if it isn't maintained at full flow. For me, very tight media bypass filter (no negatives if it stops flowing due to media load-up) is king. Plus, ATF will be much cleaner...


Mazda6 GX (Sport in the 'States), 6MT, 2017
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (Euro version), 1985
Honda Civic Si (EX 2 dr. in the 'States), A/T, 1997
Toyota Camry CE, 5MT, 1999
VW (Type2) Kombi, 4MT, 1979
Re: External ATF filter cut open with pictures [Re: grjr] #5275410 11/23/19 11:59 AM
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I did something similar with a 98 Celica that had the same drivetrain. It had around 125K miles with the original fluid. I didn't drop the pan or change the original fluid. I ended up adding a spin on filter to the cooler loop like you did. I first used a $3 Motorcraft FL-1A to do the initial cleaning, and then switched to a Fram Ultra XG8 to run long term. I added some new fluid for what was lost during filter changes. That was many years ago and I didn't own a filter cutter back then, so I never got to see how much dirt was really removed. The transmission shifted noticeably better and the fluid looked visibly better on the dipstick. I removed the external transmission filter before it was sold, but that car is still driving around to this day on the same transmission.

Re: External ATF filter cut open with pictures [Re: grjr] #5304146 12/25/19 05:02 PM
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discountdon Offline
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Originally Posted by grjr
Car is a '99 Camry 2.2L (112k mi) with a Derale external oil filter installed on the A140E trans. Using a Supertech ST16 filter for about 10k miles and 8 months and this is what it looks like. This is the first time I've cut open my oil filters and I'm guessing all the dark material that you can see is friction material from inside the transaxle, am I correct in assuming this? Fluid was fairly dark before I ran a few gallons of Supertech Dexron through it to get it cleaned up. Now that the weather is getting colder I've noticed that when first starting up the car that it seems to take a few seconds (5 sec?) for the trans to fully engage during which it feels like the trans is slipping. I have run Lucas transfix in it, though probably only a 1/4 of the bottle, I may be adding more to see if it helps any. The ST16 was replaced with a Fram XG16.


shocked

Why on earth are you running Lucas Transmission Fix in it? It's only used for for trannys that are on its last leg with a worn pump that couldn't deliver the pressures neccessary to shif! That's why the Lucas stuff is so thick and probably why your're having consequences. Supertech Dexron is already a higher viscosity formula to begin with. You're making things worse, the Aisin 4 speed is arealdy a bulletproof design. Consider the lower viscosity Valvoline MaxLife Multi Vehicle ATF or Valvoline Import ATF, all are synthetic and cheap at Walmart or AAP (Buy 1 Get 1 50% off) in gallon jugs.

Last edited by discountdon; 12/25/19 05:04 PM.

Valvoline Import ATF +SEAFOAM TRANSTUNE | 5W-20 +AUTO RX PLUS

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Re: External ATF filter cut open with pictures [Re: grjr] #5305752 12/27/19 05:49 PM
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sdowney717 Offline
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I would never have done that Lucas in the trans. I only use Lubeguard RED ATF fluid protectant. Nothing works better, if anything in a bottle will work.

Now that Lucas is in there, it will need to be drained and filled several times to get rid of it.

Last edited by sdowney717; 12/27/19 05:50 PM.
Re: External ATF filter cut open with pictures [Re: grjr] #5310832 01/02/20 08:44 AM
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meep Offline
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could there have been a lot of debris in the fluid when the filter was installed? 10k is not a long interval.

I'm not convinced those are metal debris - could be clutch material.


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