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11th UOA, 07 FJ 4.0L, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 #5247336 10/22/19 04:42 PM
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jetman Offline OP
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The reason I do used oil analysis and extended oil changes is: 1) I find it interesting; 2) so we all might learn something. I could have figured out what oil and oci works after a couple of UOA reports and gone about my merry way. But whats the fun in that, right?

My 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser w/4.0L (I run regular unleaded) gas engine has been a wonderful vehicle. I bought it used March 2009 with 22k on it. The first 9 mths and 15k miles of ownership I did what I had always done to my vehicles, changed the oil and filter every 3k miles w/dinasor oil. In Dec 2009 I switched to Amsoil SSO 5w30 synthetic oil. The original plan(based on Amsoil marketing) was to change this oil every 25k miles with 2 filter changes and the makeup oil in between. But 1 yr(Dec 2010) and 17k miles on the oil later, I sent the first sample to Oil Analyzers Inc(OAI-Polaris Labs). The results told me that 25k miles was too much and I needed better oil filtering. So I installed the Pareto Point TopDog V engine oil bypass filtration system in Jan. 2011 w/55k miles on the clock. This adds almost 1 qt to the sump capacity too. It's still in place to this day. I usually change the Amsoil EaBP90 bypass filter every 3rd oil change.

Over the yrs I've tried 6 or 7 different flavors of engine oil. The most expensive being Amsoil SSO 5w30. The least expensive being WalMart full synthetic 5w30. My oil and full flow filter change interval varies based upon what the UOA tells me.

This oil report is about Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40. The ff filter was again a Fram XG8A. This is the 1st time I've run this oil in this engine. The air cleaner element was a Fram XGA9683. I've tried 4 different air filters on this vehicle. I can't find an induction leak?

OAI flagged the following:
SILICON level(Si) is at the MINOR level.
OXIDATION as at a SEVERE level. I'm not too concerned because the oil viscosity hasn't thickened(13.3). Virgin # is 33.
NITRATION is at a MINOR level. Virgin # is 7.
Boron is slightly low

What Say U ?????

Old results on the left, newer results as you go right
Code
Oil       Amsoil   Amsoil   Amsoil   Amsoil   Amsoil   Amsoil  SynTec       M1        M1       M1     M Del 1
Brand      SSO       SSO      AMO      AMO     AMO      ACD      ST                   EP       AP       ESP
Weight     5w30     5w30    10w40    10w40   10w40     10w30     5w30      5w30      5w30     5w30      5w40
Iron        28.......14.......12...…...7.......21.......17........19........21........22........24....….18
Copper      1.....…...1........1...…...0........1........0.........1.........1.....…...1.........1.......0
Alum        5.........6........7.......1........3........2.........0.........3.........3.........3.......5

CONTAMINANT METALS-PPM
Silicon     56.......70.......43......32........33......37........38.........30........25........31......30
Sodium      168......45.......17......28........29......31........29.........21........23........26......27
Potassium     4.......2........2.......4........3........5...….....1...…...….3..........3...…....4........0

MULTI SOURCE METALS
Molybdenum  2.........0........0.......0........0........0........32.........65........77........72.......54
Boron       6.........4........3.......1........1........2.........1...….....20........26........24.......32

ADDITIVE METALS-PPM
Magnesium   14.......11.......16.......10.......13.......11.......12.........535.......684.......727......931
Calcium    3394.....3531.....4351.....3589.....3022.....3520.....2417.......1311......1086......1110......1044
Phosph     568.......497......809......929......895.....1037......643........662......684........642.......833
Zinc       691.......591.......989.....1130.....1084....1236......757........817......836........808......1079

V100C       10.9.....10.8.....12.7.....14.3.....15.2....12.7.....10.2.......10.3......10.2......10.8......13.3
IR Oxidation 58.......64.......61......25.......67......50........27.........23...…...17.........22.........42
IR Nitra     39.......41.......17.......9.......18......18........15.........15.......11...….....15........16
TBN        2.66.....2.18.....2.48.....2.35.....1.89.....2.22......1.43......2.64.....2.92......2.32......2.51

[Linked Image]


Last edited by jetman; 10/22/19 05:03 PM.

Fulltime DIYer, retired pilot
12 MKX 3.7
07 Yukon 6.2
07 Toyota FJ 4.0
96 Prevost XL40 12.7
51 Chevy 5w PU Resto 5.3
92 TopSportsman Firebird w/604
241" 4link Dragster w/565
83 Glasair! TD
90 Ez-Go 2-cysle GC
Re: 11th UOA, 07 FJ 4.0L, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 [Re: jetman] #5247361 10/22/19 05:05 PM
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Lots of UOAs to ponder.

Re: 11th UOA, 07 FJ 4.0L, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 [Re: jetman] #5247454 10/22/19 06:23 PM
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There’s a guy on tacomaworld that has 400k on a 4.0. I think he said she’s changed his oil with Mobil 1 5w30 EP every 8-12k since new. These single VVTI 4.0 engines are great engines.
400k mile 4.0 Tacoma

Re: 11th UOA, 07 FJ 4.0L, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 [Re: BlakeB] #5247489 10/22/19 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BlakeB
There’s a guy on tacomaworld that has 400k on a 4.0. I think he said she’s changed his oil with Mobil 1 5w30 EP every 8-12k since new. These single VVTI 4.0 engines are great engines.
400k mile 4.0 Tacoma


They are. I'd rather have the Tacoma with the 4.0 and prior gen transmission than the current.


2019 Frontier Pro 4X - RGT 5w30
2019 Impreza Sport - OE fill
Re: 11th UOA, 07 FJ 4.0L, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 [Re: jetman] #5247648 10/22/19 11:01 PM
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jetman, what's the oil in slot 4 on the report? That one looks like it did the best, went 14,000 miles and still had some life left. Was it plain 'ole M1?


I use the overseas manual to choose my viscosity.

Using AMSOIL

Hers: 2008 Jeep Liberty 154k, SS 5w30/Amsoil

His: 2015 4Runner 60k, SS 5w20/Amsoil

Re: 11th UOA, 07 FJ 4.0L, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 [Re: jetman] #5247731 10/23/19 05:04 AM
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dnewton3 Offline
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Jetman -
I might suggest you add a row indicating the miles on the OCI/UOA to your code text. That way it'd be much easier to understand the wear rates in a simple, quick view.

Your Fe bounces between 1 to 2 ppm per 1k miles. Good wear rate, but there is a lot of variation in that range, and therefore there's no true ability to discern any "best" or "worst" lube here, because the stdev is so large relative to the expressed range.

This data echo's what I have in my database, and does show that the engine has no real preference for the lube brand/grade, and the generally low wear rates certainly bolster the concept of longevity for the 4.0L Toy motor!

Last edited by dnewton3; 10/23/19 05:05 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: 11th UOA, 07 FJ 4.0L, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 [Re: jetman] #5247780 10/23/19 06:38 AM
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jetman Offline OP
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Here's the data with the "Lube miles" and "vehicle miles" added:

I'll also say my FJ doesn't need any makeup oil between changes because it doesn't burn and/or leak any. It has 196k miles now.

I also posted recently here on BITOG a Virgin report about this oil and a UOA about my 07 Yukon w/unleaded aluminum 6.2L that has made two runs on this oil. The Yukon is much harder on oil which makes sense. Yukon is 20% heavier than the FJ and get 20% less mpg. The Toyota 4.0L makes 239hp, the GM 6.2L makes 380hp.

Why this oil? It's both spark and compression rated and because in 2018 Mobil had a mail-in rebate program and combined with a NAPA sale the oil cost $10/gal. Now I've switched both vehicles to Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w30 because in 2019 Mobil has another mail-in rebate program and combined with an O'Reilly 25% off coupon it's costing me <$13/gal.

Here's a link to the Product Description Sheet for Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40:
PDS link
Code
Oil       Amsoil   Amsoil   Amsoil   Amsoil   Amsoil   Amsoil  SynTec       M1        M1       M1     M Del 1
Brand      SSO       SSO      AMO      AMO     AMO      ACD      ST                   EP       AP       ESP
Weight     5w30     5w30    10w40    10w40   10w40     10w30     5w30      5w30      5w30     5w30      5w40
Lube miles 17K     18.7k     12.2 k    14k     15k      14.2k    10k        11k       13k     14.5k      11k
FJ miles   53k     71.7k      84.4k  99.6k  116.6k     130.9k   142k       153k     169.2k   183.8k   196.6k

WEAR METALS-PPM
Iron        28.......14.......12...…...7.......21.......17........19........21........22........24....….18
Copper      1.....…...1........1...…...0........1........0.........1.........1.....…...1.........1.......0
Alum        5.........6........7.......1........3........2.........0.........3.........3.........3.......5

CONTAMINANT METALS-PPM
Silicon     56.......70.......43......32........33......37........38.........30........25........31......30
Sodium      168......45.......17......28........29......31........29.........21........23........26......27
Potassium     4.......2........2.......4........3........5...….....1...…...….3..........3...…....4........0

MULTI SOURCE METALS
Molybdenum  2.........0........0.......0........0........0........32.........65........77........72.......54
Boron       6.........4........3.......1........1........2.........1...….....20........26........24.......32

ADDITIVE METALS-PPM
Magnesium   14.......11.......16.......10.......13.......11.......12.........535.......684.......727......931
Calcium    3394.....3531.....4351.....3589.....3022.....3520.....2417.......1311......1086......1110......1044
Phosph     568.......497......809......929......895.....1037......643........662......684........642.......833
Zinc       691.......591.......989.....1130.....1084....1236......757........817......836........808......1079

V100C       10.9.....10.8.....12.7.....14.3.....15.2....12.7.....10.2.......10.3......10.2......10.8......13.3
IR Oxidation 58.......64.......61......25.......67......50........27.........23...…...17.........22.........42
IR Nitra     39.......41.......17.......9.......18......18........15.........15.......11...….....15........16
TBN        2.66.....2.18.....2.48.....2.35.....1.89.....2.22......1.43......2.64.....2.92......2.32......2.51


Fulltime DIYer, retired pilot
12 MKX 3.7
07 Yukon 6.2
07 Toyota FJ 4.0
96 Prevost XL40 12.7
51 Chevy 5w PU Resto 5.3
92 TopSportsman Firebird w/604
241" 4link Dragster w/565
83 Glasair! TD
90 Ez-Go 2-cysle GC
Re: 11th UOA, 07 FJ 4.0L, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 [Re: jetman] #5247959 10/23/19 10:33 AM
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jetman Offline OP
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When I got this report, I decided to change the oil & filter. By that time the oil had another 500 miles on it, 11.5k. I sent a sample to Blackstone and await the results to see what they have to say.


Fulltime DIYer, retired pilot
12 MKX 3.7
07 Yukon 6.2
07 Toyota FJ 4.0
96 Prevost XL40 12.7
51 Chevy 5w PU Resto 5.3
92 TopSportsman Firebird w/604
241" 4link Dragster w/565
83 Glasair! TD
90 Ez-Go 2-cysle GC
Re: 11th UOA, 07 FJ 4.0L, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 [Re: jetman] #5255429 10/31/19 08:21 PM
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jetman Offline OP
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I received results from Blackstone for the same oil sample that I started this thread about. The #s were near identical, as they should be, to the #11 OAI #s mentioned previously in this thread. But IMO, the comments from OAI are more conservative and helpful. Its been 10 yrs since I have sent a sample to Blackstone for this reason. I wished OAI provided "universal average" #s. They do provide most everything Blackstone does, plus TBN, Oxidation, and Nitration #s all for <$30. I'm gonna stick with OAI.

I got to lookin again at the OAI sample #11 comments about Nitration. They say: "NITRATION is at a MINOR level. Potential causes are 1) extended drain interval; 2) elevated operating temperature; 3) blow by; 4) or improper PVC; 5) improper air/fuel ratio, 6) vehicle loading."

IMO, #4 was the most likely possibility. So I pulled the PVC off the engine, and sure enough it was a mess. I tried soaking it in B12. It helped, but not completely. So I installed a new one. I also clean the MAP sensor and throttle body. Both were dirty too, so maybe #5 applies too. Shame on me.

.


Fulltime DIYer, retired pilot
12 MKX 3.7
07 Yukon 6.2
07 Toyota FJ 4.0
96 Prevost XL40 12.7
51 Chevy 5w PU Resto 5.3
92 TopSportsman Firebird w/604
241" 4link Dragster w/565
83 Glasair! TD
90 Ez-Go 2-cysle GC
Re: 11th UOA, 07 FJ 4.0L, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 [Re: jetman] #5255631 11/01/19 05:26 AM
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You've got cumulative errors in your OCI duration math ... if I add the unique OCIs to the starting point of 53k miles, I end up at 186.6k miles; that being 10k miles short of your indicated 196.6k miles. Did you miss a OCI in there somewhere and just spread out the miles over the remaining data points???


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: 11th UOA, 07 FJ 4.0L, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 [Re: jetman] #5255642 11/01/19 05:45 AM
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No math errors because I don't automatically change the oil when I send in a sample or get the results back. I usually wait to see the results, which usually indicates to me that there is life left in the oil, so I go a couple of more thousand miles, THEN change the oil.


Fulltime DIYer, retired pilot
12 MKX 3.7
07 Yukon 6.2
07 Toyota FJ 4.0
96 Prevost XL40 12.7
51 Chevy 5w PU Resto 5.3
92 TopSportsman Firebird w/604
241" 4link Dragster w/565
83 Glasair! TD
90 Ez-Go 2-cysle GC
Re: 11th UOA, 07 FJ 4.0L, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 [Re: jetman] #5256203 11/01/19 06:34 PM
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So what's your trigger for the OCI? What is condemning the lube?

Where's all the Si coming from?


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: 11th UOA, 07 FJ 4.0L, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 [Re: jetman] #5256222 11/01/19 07:03 PM
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Strange how molybdenum is missing from the Amsoil Signature Series 5w30 runs. The diesel Amsoils, not surprising, but the SSO?
Try The Critic's Valvoline next time to clean that puppy's rings. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5232562/1 It's half POE, PAO is there, some AN's, etc. Cleaning oil.


2019 VW Tiguan S 4Motion, Pennzoil Platinum 0w-20, VW Mann oil filter
Re: 11th UOA, 07 FJ 4.0L, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 [Re: paoester] #5256581 11/02/19 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dnewton3
So what's your trigger for the OCI? What is condemning the lube?

Where's all the Si coming from?


I'm no expert.

If everything else is normal, I condemn my oil when the TBN is between 2 and 3.

I don't know where the SI is coming from? I've visually looked many times? I tried 4 different air filter elements. Someday I'll buy a smoker to see if its an induction leak.

Originally Posted by paoester
Try The Critic's Valvoline next time to clean that puppy's rings. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5232562/1 It's half POE, PAO is there, some AN's, etc. Cleaning oil.

I'm no expert.

My rings are clean. The engine doesn't consume any oil.
You won't ever catch me adding anything to the crankcase that will dislodge accumulated debris. One of the many jobs oil has is to remove contaminates out of the flow and deposit them where they won't harm anything.

Here's a picture of my spark plugs that I replaced yesterday. The engine has 197k miles and the plugs have 47k miles on them. Gaps when new were .040". They came out yesterday at .048".
[Linked Image]


Fulltime DIYer, retired pilot
12 MKX 3.7
07 Yukon 6.2
07 Toyota FJ 4.0
96 Prevost XL40 12.7
51 Chevy 5w PU Resto 5.3
92 TopSportsman Firebird w/604
241" 4link Dragster w/565
83 Glasair! TD
90 Ez-Go 2-cysle GC
Re: 11th UOA, 07 FJ 4.0L, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 [Re: jetman] #5257681 11/03/19 04:08 PM
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Knowing only the TBN without TAN really isn't telling us much.
And, TBH, there's no evidence that today's engines see any wear affected by the base/acid relationship; none whatsoever. We've seen great UOAs where the TBN/TAN inverted, and yet nothing went wrong at all. I cannot think of a UOA in the last 10 years that showed a direct relationship between wear and base/acid. There have been scant few with any correlation, none that I can believe to show causation.

- Generally seeing a wear rate extend past "normal" (in the true statistical sense) would be a reason, or
- Exceeding a magnitude in a wear metal or soot that truly indicates there's a limit that induces concern (true values based on discovery, not bias based on heresy). Fe at 100pm, Cu at 50ppm, etc ...


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
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