Light Noise when cold start?
- Thread starter John344
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As to what talest stated,I had one of our well respected members probably 10 years ago say a grp 2 conventional oil had the best polar properties and that group 4 was the worst.
Originally Posted by burla
![[Linked Image]](https://thelubepage.com/attachments/apps/7d140615aacd78a15b776f4f/entries/d6bc4e8fd91bc47d4b4d46df/fields/content/inline_images/8cd90e75937e476c1f06861b/attachments/1482520606697_petroleum_oil_vs_synthetic_oil_temperature_limits_chart.jpg "[Linked Image]")
Ty for sharing that...ðŸ‘
Ty for sharing that...ðŸ‘
Last edited:
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
That's the same noise my neighbor's Genesis makes when she starts it on a cold morning. It reminds me of what a car with dangerously low oil sounds like. That definitely doesn't sound like lifter tick,it's too deep of a frequency.
Try a different oil,because that's what my 3000GT sounded like on Castrol Syntec. With dino oil,it made no dry start noise at all. Completely smooth and silent.
That's because it's basically the same Hyundai Lambda PI V6 (G6DH) engine, except direct injected with twin turbos.
I said the op could take it in for peace of mind but my bet is it's this 👇... Hyundai has identified the earlier Lambda engines with the bad tensioner but that hasn't been a problem for any Lambda engine for several years now.
This 👇is from the Kia forums, quoting the TSB from Hyundai/Kia..
"Tamzab
Newbie
Join: Aug 2017
Posts: 12
PA
Aug 10, 2017 · #1
2014 Kia Sorrento EX- loud ticking when starting
"Hi all. I have having a problem with my 2014 Kia Sorrento EX since about 40k miles. I have taken it to the dealer twice and both times they said it was normal. It has a loud ticking noise at the initial start-up in the morning and all other start-ups..'
- "I have the same issue. Unfortunately, it is normal. The chain tensioners are hydraulic and take a few seconds at cold startup to get pressure to build and move fluid into the tensioners. I got this from TSB 028:
This revised bulletin replaces information previously issued on June 1, 2007, Engine 028. It
readdresses several noises on 3.8 or 3.3 litre engines used in 2006 and later Sedona (VQ) and
2007 and later Amanti (GH) and Sorento (BL).
Noise 1) 3.8/3.3L engines may exhibit noise for several seconds during initial start-up after sitting
several hours, which typically sound like loose timing chains or excessive bearing clearance.
Noise 1 - Engine Noise Only at Initial Start-up
This can be caused by oil draining back into the crankcase after sitting several hours or more so
after sitting overnight. Since the primary tension application of the chain tensioners is oil pressure,
the tensioners may initially have slack until significant oil reaches them and pressure begins to
build. If the noise diminishes at the same time oil pressure builds, there is no fault with the current
design timing chain tensioners. No action or repair is necessary or recommended.
That's the same noise my neighbor's Genesis makes when she starts it on a cold morning. It reminds me of what a car with dangerously low oil sounds like. That definitely doesn't sound like lifter tick,it's too deep of a frequency.
Try a different oil,because that's what my 3000GT sounded like on Castrol Syntec. With dino oil,it made no dry start noise at all. Completely smooth and silent.
That's because it's basically the same Hyundai Lambda PI V6 (G6DH) engine, except direct injected with twin turbos.
I said the op could take it in for peace of mind but my bet is it's this 👇... Hyundai has identified the earlier Lambda engines with the bad tensioner but that hasn't been a problem for any Lambda engine for several years now.
This 👇is from the Kia forums, quoting the TSB from Hyundai/Kia..
"Tamzab
Newbie
Join: Aug 2017
Posts: 12
PA
Aug 10, 2017 · #1
2014 Kia Sorrento EX- loud ticking when starting
"Hi all. I have having a problem with my 2014 Kia Sorrento EX since about 40k miles. I have taken it to the dealer twice and both times they said it was normal. It has a loud ticking noise at the initial start-up in the morning and all other start-ups..'
- "I have the same issue. Unfortunately, it is normal. The chain tensioners are hydraulic and take a few seconds at cold startup to get pressure to build and move fluid into the tensioners. I got this from TSB 028:
This revised bulletin replaces information previously issued on June 1, 2007, Engine 028. It
readdresses several noises on 3.8 or 3.3 litre engines used in 2006 and later Sedona (VQ) and
2007 and later Amanti (GH) and Sorento (BL).
Noise 1) 3.8/3.3L engines may exhibit noise for several seconds during initial start-up after sitting
several hours, which typically sound like loose timing chains or excessive bearing clearance.
Noise 1 - Engine Noise Only at Initial Start-up
This can be caused by oil draining back into the crankcase after sitting several hours or more so
after sitting overnight. Since the primary tension application of the chain tensioners is oil pressure,
the tensioners may initially have slack until significant oil reaches them and pressure begins to
build. If the noise diminishes at the same time oil pressure builds, there is no fault with the current
design timing chain tensioners. No action or repair is necessary or recommended.
Last edited:
4WD
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Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
As to what talest stated,I had one of our well respected members probably 10 years ago say a grp 2 conventional oil had the best polar properties and that group 4 was the worst.
Wonder where EHC lands in this theory
As to what talest stated,I had one of our well respected members probably 10 years ago say a grp 2 conventional oil had the best polar properties and that group 4 was the worst.
Wonder where EHC lands in this theory
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by John344
I uploaded a video for the sound in one of the answers.
Sounds perfectly normal.
I uploaded a video for the sound in one of the answers.
Sounds perfectly normal.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by burla
I don't think pao has worst cold properties, but rather the best. Am I wrong?
Group 4 had an issue with lspi events compared to group 3, last thing I heard that group 4 didn't outperform 3, I would always welcome other info you if you can find it.
You would be correct on that, PAO typically has the best cold flow capabilities.
I don't think pao has worst cold properties, but rather the best. Am I wrong?
Group 4 had an issue with lspi events compared to group 3, last thing I heard that group 4 didn't outperform 3, I would always welcome other info you if you can find it.
You would be correct on that, PAO typically has the best cold flow capabilities.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted by talest
I remember reading somewhere that a Group 5 oil had the best properties of sticking to the parts..
Group I and Esters are typically the most polar. They also have the best solvency. This is why "dry" base oils like PAO are mixed with other bases to improve solvency, this could be AN's or Esters typically. The additives themselves also plate and adhere to surfaces, so even with a "dry" base oil like PAO, you aren't getting a "dry" start.
Originally Posted by talest
Group 4 had the worst cold-flow properties..
Hard no, that's entirely incorrect. PAO has the best cold flow characteristics.
Originally Posted by talest
And Group 3 has become very, very good, leading to questions on whether boutique Group 4 or 5 oils are worth it.
While Group III base oils, including the more recent crop of those with the unofficial "Group III+" designation like GTL and VISOM indeed approach PAO in many metrics, they still don't do quite as well in oxidation resistance and low temperature performance. But, they are often "good enough" for your typical lube and allow a modern synthetic to be formulated less expensively while providing excellent performance characteristics. Group III oils also have very poor solvency, not much better than PAO, nor are they much, if any, more polar.
There's nothing boutique about PAO or anything that falls into the Group V category like AN's or POE. They make up a major part of XOM's base oil portfolio and are found in a large portion of oils on the market, even if it is in a very small minority of the overall blend.
Originally Posted by talest
I would think that gravity would drain all the oil down eventually, there may be some things in the oil that make it sit on the oiled sections so it is not a dry start.
Yes, gravity leads to most, save a film, draining down to the pan. If you've ever torn apart an engine that's sat, you'll find an oil film all over the place, so they certainly aren't "dry" on a cold start. Not unless somebody opens it up and hoses it down with a can of brake clean.
Originally Posted by talest
And "tick tick tick" sometimes called typewriter sound on start up they call that Lifter Tick, it is so common.
The ticking can be rockers, an HLA, timing chain slack taking up...etc. It depends on the engine. On most modern engines that aren't an LSx or HEMI, when somebody refers to a "lifter" they are really referring to an HLA, whose purpose is to take up slack (lash) in the valvetrain. A "lifter" is a component in a pushrod engine.
I remember reading somewhere that a Group 5 oil had the best properties of sticking to the parts..
Group I and Esters are typically the most polar. They also have the best solvency. This is why "dry" base oils like PAO are mixed with other bases to improve solvency, this could be AN's or Esters typically. The additives themselves also plate and adhere to surfaces, so even with a "dry" base oil like PAO, you aren't getting a "dry" start.
Originally Posted by talest
Group 4 had the worst cold-flow properties..
Hard no, that's entirely incorrect. PAO has the best cold flow characteristics.
Originally Posted by talest
And Group 3 has become very, very good, leading to questions on whether boutique Group 4 or 5 oils are worth it.
While Group III base oils, including the more recent crop of those with the unofficial "Group III+" designation like GTL and VISOM indeed approach PAO in many metrics, they still don't do quite as well in oxidation resistance and low temperature performance. But, they are often "good enough" for your typical lube and allow a modern synthetic to be formulated less expensively while providing excellent performance characteristics. Group III oils also have very poor solvency, not much better than PAO, nor are they much, if any, more polar.
There's nothing boutique about PAO or anything that falls into the Group V category like AN's or POE. They make up a major part of XOM's base oil portfolio and are found in a large portion of oils on the market, even if it is in a very small minority of the overall blend.
Originally Posted by talest
I would think that gravity would drain all the oil down eventually, there may be some things in the oil that make it sit on the oiled sections so it is not a dry start.
Yes, gravity leads to most, save a film, draining down to the pan. If you've ever torn apart an engine that's sat, you'll find an oil film all over the place, so they certainly aren't "dry" on a cold start. Not unless somebody opens it up and hoses it down with a can of brake clean.
Originally Posted by talest
And "tick tick tick" sometimes called typewriter sound on start up they call that Lifter Tick, it is so common.
The ticking can be rockers, an HLA, timing chain slack taking up...etc. It depends on the engine. On most modern engines that aren't an LSx or HEMI, when somebody refers to a "lifter" they are really referring to an HLA, whose purpose is to take up slack (lash) in the valvetrain. A "lifter" is a component in a pushrod engine.
Kia Cadenza with a 3.3 V6? Those V6 engines are always noisy when started. Kia actually had to move the cartridge oil filter to the bottom of the engine to stop most of the cold start noise for 2018 and up engines. It was MUCH worse on the older 3.3 with the oil filter on top because the oil would drain from the cartridge and cause a dry cold start every time! Despite no oil pressure on every start, these engines rarely have problems and last. I wouldn't worry about it.
Originally Posted by Loobit
Kia Cadenza with a 3.3 V6?
Yeppers..
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/07/full-85545-34345-screenshot_2019_07_11_00_38_40_1.png "[Linked Image]")
Kia Cadenza with a 3.3 V6?
Yeppers..
Last edited:
Originally Posted by John344
I'm using the original filter that it's provided by Kia Authorized Parts store from the dealer. It's been there for almost 4200KM.
I had the choice to buy the 10W-30 Pennzoil Platinum but I went with Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula just because they are priced the exact same and no benefit of using 10W-30 instead of 5W-30. and we never reach 0 ti's rare in winter 5C.
Trying a better filter would be step #1.
Quote
I went with Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula just because they are priced the exact same and no benefit of using 10W-30 instead of 5W-30.
Oh, there are. There really are.
I'm using the original filter that it's provided by Kia Authorized Parts store from the dealer. It's been there for almost 4200KM.
I had the choice to buy the 10W-30 Pennzoil Platinum but I went with Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula just because they are priced the exact same and no benefit of using 10W-30 instead of 5W-30. and we never reach 0 ti's rare in winter 5C.
Trying a better filter would be step #1.
Quote
I went with Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula just because they are priced the exact same and no benefit of using 10W-30 instead of 5W-30.
Oh, there are. There really are.
Originally Posted by Or
Originally Posted by John344
I'm using the original filter that it's provided by Kia Authorized Parts store from the dealer. It's been there for almost 4200KM.
I had the choice to buy the 10W-30 Pennzoil Platinum but I went with Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula just because they are priced the exact same and no benefit of using 10W-30 instead of 5W-30. and we never reach 0 ti's rare in winter 5C.
Trying a better filter would be step #1.
Quote
I went with Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula just because they are priced the exact same and no benefit of using 10W-30 instead of 5W-30.
Oh, there are. There really are.
Can you please explain?
Originally Posted by John344
I'm using the original filter that it's provided by Kia Authorized Parts store from the dealer. It's been there for almost 4200KM.
I had the choice to buy the 10W-30 Pennzoil Platinum but I went with Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula just because they are priced the exact same and no benefit of using 10W-30 instead of 5W-30. and we never reach 0 ti's rare in winter 5C.
Trying a better filter would be step #1.
Quote
I went with Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula just because they are priced the exact same and no benefit of using 10W-30 instead of 5W-30.
Oh, there are. There really are.
Can you please explain?
Originally Posted by John344
Originally Posted by Or
Originally Posted by John344
I'm using the original filter that it's provided by Kia Authorized Parts store from the dealer. It's been there for almost 4200KM.
I had the choice to buy the 10W-30 Pennzoil Platinum but I went with Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula just because they are priced the exact same and no benefit of using 10W-30 instead of 5W-30. and we never reach 0 ti's rare in winter 5C.
Trying a better filter would be step #1.
Quote
I went with Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula just because they are priced the exact same and no benefit of using 10W-30 instead of 5W-30.
Oh, there are. There really are.
Can you please explain?
Do you know what you've done?! There is going to be a thick vs thin battle now
Originally Posted by Or
Originally Posted by John344
I'm using the original filter that it's provided by Kia Authorized Parts store from the dealer. It's been there for almost 4200KM.
I had the choice to buy the 10W-30 Pennzoil Platinum but I went with Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula just because they are priced the exact same and no benefit of using 10W-30 instead of 5W-30. and we never reach 0 ti's rare in winter 5C.
Trying a better filter would be step #1.
Quote
I went with Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula just because they are priced the exact same and no benefit of using 10W-30 instead of 5W-30.
Oh, there are. There really are.
Can you please explain?
Do you know what you've done?! There is going to be a thick vs thin battle now
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by John344
Originally Posted by Or
Originally Posted by John344
I'm using the original filter that it's provided by Kia Authorized Parts store from the dealer. It's been there for almost 4200KM.
I had the choice to buy the 10W-30 Pennzoil Platinum but I went with Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula just because they are priced the exact same and no benefit of using 10W-30 instead of 5W-30. and we never reach 0 ti's rare in winter 5C.
Trying a better filter would be step #1.
Quote
I went with Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula just because they are priced the exact same and no benefit of using 10W-30 instead of 5W-30.
Oh, there are. There really are.
Can you please explain?
Do you know what you've done?! There is going to be a thick vs thin battle now
Those are always good.
Originally Posted by John344
Originally Posted by Or
Originally Posted by John344
I'm using the original filter that it's provided by Kia Authorized Parts store from the dealer. It's been there for almost 4200KM.
I had the choice to buy the 10W-30 Pennzoil Platinum but I went with Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula just because they are priced the exact same and no benefit of using 10W-30 instead of 5W-30. and we never reach 0 ti's rare in winter 5C.
Trying a better filter would be step #1.
Quote
I went with Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula just because they are priced the exact same and no benefit of using 10W-30 instead of 5W-30.
Oh, there are. There really are.
Can you please explain?
Do you know what you've done?! There is going to be a thick vs thin battle now
Those are always good.
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Can you please explain?
Do you know what you've done?! There is going to be a thick vs thin battle now
[/quote]
This thread just got it's life extended by another day or two...‚...cuzz there's no putting this toothpaste back in the tube!
Can you please explain?
Do you know what you've done?! There is going to be a thick vs thin battle now
This thread just got it's life extended by another day or two...‚...cuzz there's no putting this toothpaste back in the tube!
Last edited:
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
John
Try adding a can of Liqui-Moly MoS2 (10.5oz), should be less friction. Chance that noise goes away. Buy it online and anywhere but EBay dealers.
I never received my EBay order on Liqui-Moly and had to reorder it elsewhere. I was out-the-purchase price because EBay only guarantees delivery, even if that delivery occurs to the same postal address two blocks away. My security cameras can see the neighbors both to my right and to my left. No package was sent to either one.
I suspect a dishonest homeowner with the same numerical address on another block, got my Liqui-Moly the first time. I checked homeowners of my address number for four different blocks. This particular homeowner would not acknowledge my doorbell ring and door / window knocks. Such is life......
Two oils that are known to quiet engines (when other oil brands failed) are Red Line and Schaeffers. If these-2 meet spec and I believe both now have an SN Plus oil available, you can try them. Dodge Ram owners that experience similar noise, have discussed these two oils before.... both here and on forums / messageboards elsewhere.
If I had that noise, I would be trying to eliminate it and not be satisfied with 'living with it".
Try adding a can of Liqui-Moly MoS2 (10.5oz), should be less friction. Chance that noise goes away. Buy it online and anywhere but EBay dealers.
I never received my EBay order on Liqui-Moly and had to reorder it elsewhere. I was out-the-purchase price because EBay only guarantees delivery, even if that delivery occurs to the same postal address two blocks away. My security cameras can see the neighbors both to my right and to my left. No package was sent to either one.
I suspect a dishonest homeowner with the same numerical address on another block, got my Liqui-Moly the first time. I checked homeowners of my address number for four different blocks. This particular homeowner would not acknowledge my doorbell ring and door / window knocks. Such is life......
Two oils that are known to quiet engines (when other oil brands failed) are Red Line and Schaeffers. If these-2 meet spec and I believe both now have an SN Plus oil available, you can try them. Dodge Ram owners that experience similar noise, have discussed these two oils before.... both here and on forums / messageboards elsewhere.
If I had that noise, I would be trying to eliminate it and not be satisfied with 'living with it".
Last edited:
Originally Posted by John344
I uploaded two videos for the sound from inside the car and outside
The engine sound is normal. I've heard it on dozens of cars that run perfectly fine, including my sister's 2009 Genesis 3.8 which is an absolute blast to drive. Lots of cars make this noise. Unless the car has been sitting for 3 months or more, there is always a film of oil coating the internal engine parts which protects them from *some* wear during cold starts, so I would just keep up with the regular maintenance and not worry about it. There is no way to prevent all wear during cold starts.
Another poster said, "If [the noise] doesn't go away in a few seconds, or if it happens under load, take it in." I agree 100%. That noise should always go away quickly after startup and never happen again until the next startup.
Your dash says "service required," I assume that's been done by now?
I uploaded two videos for the sound from inside the car and outside
The engine sound is normal. I've heard it on dozens of cars that run perfectly fine, including my sister's 2009 Genesis 3.8 which is an absolute blast to drive. Lots of cars make this noise. Unless the car has been sitting for 3 months or more, there is always a film of oil coating the internal engine parts which protects them from *some* wear during cold starts, so I would just keep up with the regular maintenance and not worry about it. There is no way to prevent all wear during cold starts.
Another poster said, "If [the noise] doesn't go away in a few seconds, or if it happens under load, take it in." I agree 100%. That noise should always go away quickly after startup and never happen again until the next startup.
Your dash says "service required," I assume that's been done by now?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2006
- Messages
- 29,558
The startup noise in the op's videos is definitely not lifter tick. I wonder what internally in that engine is banging around upon startup? Incorrect piston fitment maybe?