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Re: Why do people run higher weight oil in summer? [Re: Whammo] #5121802
05/31/19 11:56 PM
05/31/19 11:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 687
Cincinnati, USA
Dave9 Offline
Dave9  Offline

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 687
Cincinnati, USA
Originally Posted by Whammo
I have seen a lot of people recommend running a 5w30 instead of a 5w20 in summertime. As far as I know, the engine operating temp isn't going to be higher in the summer. If the manual says 5w20 is fine year round, why mess with it?

The manual is about fuel economy numbers mandated by the EPA/nonsense.

As far as you know, is wrong. The engine operating temp is higher in summer. Realize that there is a delayed reaction. The thermostat is set for a temp, but the cylinder temp is higher when the ambient is.

The radiator fan is set for a temp, but again it is a delayed reaction. It matters less today with modern oils, especially synthetic, but ultimately there is no magic here.

The base oil weight is what dictates steady state operation. The -V weight just dictates the cold flow. The second number is what you pick for the operational environment at normal ambient and running temp.

Ignore this if you wish.

Re: Why do people run higher weight oil in summer? [Re: Dave9] #5121810
06/01/19 12:05 AM
06/01/19 12:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,767
Maricopa Arizona
dave1251 Offline
dave1251  Offline

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,767
Maricopa Arizona
Originally Posted by Dave9
Originally Posted by Whammo
I have seen a lot of people recommend running a 5w30 instead of a 5w20 in summertime. As far as I know, the engine operating temp isn't going to be higher in the summer. If the manual says 5w20 is fine year round, why mess with it?

The manual is about fuel economy numbers mandated by the EPA/nonsense.

As far as you know, is wrong. The engine operating temp is higher in summer. Realize that there is a delayed reaction. The thermostat is set for a temp, but the cylinder temp is higher when the ambient is.

The radiator fan is set for a temp, but again it is a delayed reaction. It matters less today with modern oils, especially synthetic, but ultimately there is no magic here.

The base oil weight is what dictates steady state operation. The -V weight just dictates the cold flow. The second number is what you pick for the operational environment at normal ambient and running temp.

Ignore this if you wish.



It's not about ignoring anything. The OEM states what grade to use. I have used other than the recommended grade because I know using a 30 grade where a 20 grade is recommended because extra human hair thickness won't hurt anything. All you stated is 20 grade recommendation is for better fuel economy which is true but there is no evidence using a 30 grade provides longer engine life over a 20 grade.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Why do people run higher weight oil in summer? [Re: Whammo] #5121824
06/01/19 12:26 AM
06/01/19 12:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 9,119
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 9,119
Waco, TX
Originally Posted by Whammo
As far as I know, the engine operating temp isn't going to be higher in the summer.


Well, that depends.

When I am pulling a heavy trailer in the winter, it is easy to keep all the temps "normal".

But in the summer - esp with the AC on - everything is up near the very maximum edges of "normal".


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Why do people run higher weight oil in summer? [Re: DoubleNickels] #5121826
06/01/19 12:28 AM
06/01/19 12:28 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 723
WA
Mad_Hatter Offline
Mad_Hatter  Offline

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 723
WA
Originally Posted by DoubleNickels
Because they know better than the engineers who designed the motor and specified the fluid.


Hmmm, is it possible the engineers spent a lot of time and money coming up with those oil recommendations? I say yes... and that oil recommendation is the "sweet spot" so to speak, suitable for probably 99.99% of the applications. Maybe it's happened to some guy, somewhere in Timbuktu but I personally have never heard of someone ruining their engine by running the OE spec oil. Deviate from it at your own peril..

Re: Why do people run higher weight oil in summer? [Re: Whammo] #5121862
06/01/19 02:48 AM
06/01/19 02:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 959
WA
OilUzer Offline
OilUzer  Offline

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 959
WA
Thicker oil protects better especially in summer heat. If you like 30 in summer, use it in winter as well. If you prefer 0 (as oppose to 5) for winter, use 0Wx30. It may be pricier.

Those in the know, will never use thin oil grin2

Re: Why do people run higher weight oil in summer? [Re: maxdustington] #5121877
06/01/19 04:06 AM
06/01/19 04:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,550
Wisconsin
Black_Thunder Offline
Black_Thunder  Offline

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,550
Wisconsin
Originally Posted by maxdustington
Old habits from when oils were trash. Back in the days when you ran SAEx in the summer and 10W30 in the winter.

Lack of cold starts means you can get away with a 15Wx if you want. You can run cool fleet oils in the summer like DELO 400 SD 15W30.

Thicker oils like 10W30 seem to be disappearing from store shelves. I'll bet there are a few members who have a ton of 10W30 they got cheap that plan to run it in the summer to be safe.

BITOG tradition to ignore manual recommendations!





Indeed I got 5 to 6 jugs of Pennzoil 10w30 that i got for 5 dollars a jug when they clearanced it out at walmart and will only run it in the summer


also got some Delo that was on clearance at a different time

and then some Mystik 10w30 that was clearanced at Fleet Farm.


I mainly got 10w30 in some cases only because all weights were on clearance but the 5w30 disappears the quickest and I'm sometimes late to the party so I just take what I can get.


I'd buy Callahan autoparts if I could.
Re: Why do people run higher weight oil in summer? [Re: Black_Thunder] #5121913
06/01/19 06:24 AM
06/01/19 06:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 9,119
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 9,119
Waco, TX
Originally Posted by Black_Thunder
10w30 that i .... will only run it in the summer.
I mainly got 10w30 in some cases only because all weights were on clearance.......... so I just take what I can get.



If it makes you feel better, mix it 50/50 with some good 0W-20 and call it a day


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Why do people run higher weight oil in summer? [Re: Whammo] #5121923
06/01/19 06:43 AM
06/01/19 06:43 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 723
WA
Mad_Hatter Offline
Mad_Hatter  Offline

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 723
WA
[quote=Whammo]I have seen a lot of people recommend running a 5w30 instead of a 5w20 in summertime. As far as I know, the engine operating temp isn't going to be higher in the summer. If the manual says 5w20 is fine year round, why mess with it?[/quote]

That's a fantastic question..My guess is some people have a solution that's in need of a problem.

Unless there's some compelling, objective reason to switch to the higher weight, stick with what's working for you.

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 06/01/19 06:44 AM.
Re: Why do people run higher weight oil in summer? [Re: circuitsmith] #5121946
06/01/19 07:21 AM
06/01/19 07:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,386
North Texas
ARB1977 Offline
ARB1977  Offline

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,386
North Texas
Originally Posted by circuitsmith
Originally Posted by ARB1977
Run what the manufacturer recommends and be done.

And yet you use unapproved Amsoil in your Toyota.

Haters gonna hate...sounds like someone can’t afford Amsoil. Running their XL line. I run 5W30 what the manufacturer calls for and 0W20 what Honda calls for. I don’t care if their not API certified.


2015 Tacoma 4.0L 60K (as of 02/23/18)
AMSOIL SS 0W30 / Toyota filter

2018 CRV 1.5L (as of 05/11/18)
Factory fill / Honda filter
Re: Why do people run higher weight oil in summer? [Re: Whammo] #5121960
06/01/19 07:43 AM
06/01/19 07:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,996
South Carolina
alarmguy Offline
alarmguy  Offline

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,996
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Whammo
I have seen a lot of people recommend running a 5w30 instead of a 5w20 in summertime. As far as I know, the engine operating temp isn't going to be higher in the summer. If the manual says 5w20 is fine year round, why mess with it?


Actually its quite sane to use a higher weight oil operating your vehicle in hot weather. Of course the oil operating temperature is going to be higher in the summer. In some cases depending on vehicle and use much higher. Oil temperatures are not controlled by a radiator and thermostat like the coolant is except in cases of some vehicles outfitted for heavy duty towing.

Its silly to think that oils temperatures will be the same in my state where temps have been a constant 90 to 100 degrees for weeks now compared to cooler areas of the country. In fact, since I no longer live in a colder state, its silly for me to use anything but a 5w30 year round. I do not need a 5w20 like someone upstate NY with wintertime temps in the 0 to 40 degree range.

The manufacturer recommendation of 5w20 is a blanket recommendation, average if you will, for the entire continent, you can fine tune that to your climate. 5w20 oil is of no use to me when I start my truck up in 90 degree heat. In fact a straight 30 would be fine.
Furthermore the 5w20 its for fleet fuel mileage in mind, for the best EPA results they can get.

If you stick with your manual you will be fine but there is a good reason to fine tune your weight oil to your area, most people are not capable of this but its not rocket science.
If makes FAR MORE sense to fine tune your weight oil then select one brand over another brand if they meet the same API. Now that is something that makes no sense, choosing one oil brand over the other when they meet the same API. Conventional and synthetic ... :o)

Last edited by alarmguy; 06/01/19 07:47 AM.

14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50
Re: Why do people run higher weight oil in summer? [Re: RayCJ] #5121968
06/01/19 07:53 AM
06/01/19 07:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,767
Maricopa Arizona
dave1251 Offline
dave1251  Offline

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,767
Maricopa Arizona
Originally Posted by RayCJ
Here's a couple direct quotes from a Mazda3 owner's manual. Read between the lines and it says, 0w-20 gives better fuel economy and 5w-20 or 5w-30 lubricate the engine better. FWIW, I use the USA recommended viscosity year round.




You came to the conclusion you wanted. The term is confirmation bias I believe.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Why do people run higher weight oil in summer? [Re: Whammo] #5121985
06/01/19 08:14 AM
06/01/19 08:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,000
Ontario Canada
caprice_2nv Offline
caprice_2nv  Offline

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,000
Ontario Canada
It seems like a constant argument between the people who blindly trust whatever the oem God's tell them to use (why even come to bitog if all you ever believe or recommend is to follow the oem recommendation for oil grade and oil change intervals (especially the second one).

Some of us won't ever be convinced that the manufacturer always has our best interests in mind and nothing else.

There are also people who think of a vehicles "lifetime" as being like 5-10 years. Then there are people like me driving 35 year old vehicles. If I bought a new vehicle today (which cost more than every vehicle I bought in the past 16 years combined) then I would be trying to make it last as long as the cars I'm driving now.

For the record when it comes to giving other people advice I usually recommend following the manufacturer recommendation. But these average people aren't trying to get 300k miles or more from their vehicles. If someone is asking on here it's because they're trying to do the absolute best for their vehicle and not just "good enough".


84 Olds Cutlass - 350 Olds
83 Chevy Caprice - 305 Sbc
79 Honda CX500
Re: Why do people run higher weight oil in summer? [Re: caprice_2nv] #5121989
06/01/19 08:18 AM
06/01/19 08:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9,525
Texas
4WD Online confused
4WD  Online Confused

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9,525
Texas
And they face the buyer on Monday who wants lots of power off less gas … and CAFE on Tuesday who wants MPG ~ period - and did not buy the vehicle and not concerned about longevity …
The Hemi thread is an example …

Re: Why do people run higher weight oil in summer? [Re: Brian553] #5121992
06/01/19 08:21 AM
06/01/19 08:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,394
GA.
ChrisD46 Offline
ChrisD46  Offline

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,394
GA.
*My belief is in some vehicles 5W20 weight is more about skating by CAFE and MIGHT be marginal in the summer (especially towards the last 1/3rd of an OCI) ... 5W30 errors more towards offering a buffer in those conditions where shear , fuel dilution , viscosity break down , etc. may come into play .
Originally Posted by Brian553
The engine oil temperature is greater in summer. This is taken into account for an automaker in both engine design and setting their maximum warranty--pairing a grade to the engine. However, the warranty period and terms of acceptable conditions induced by wear in that warranty period may not be to the satisfaction of some consumers, particularly those found on this site. I don't know of many engines that have had catastrophic failure when the end user followed the manufacturer's specified grade, oci, and appropriately retired/ replaced their oil filters, both during the warranty period and long after (and made sure that it was never under-filled.)


'17 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI 5W30 Valvoline Advanced Syn / Fram Ultra
'10 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 5W30 QSUD / Fram Ultra
'07 Kia Sedona 3.8L 5W30 M1 EP HM / Fram Ultra
Re: Why do people run higher weight oil in summer? [Re: Whammo] #5121994
06/01/19 08:22 AM
06/01/19 08:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,386
North Texas
ARB1977 Offline
ARB1977  Offline

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,386
North Texas
I’ve used nothing but recommend weights by the manufacturer. No issues to date. Why try to reinvent the wheel. Unless a uoa says other wise.


2015 Tacoma 4.0L 60K (as of 02/23/18)
AMSOIL SS 0W30 / Toyota filter

2018 CRV 1.5L (as of 05/11/18)
Factory fill / Honda filter
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