Why do people run higher weight oil in summer?

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by RayCJ
Here's a couple direct quotes from a Mazda3 owner's manual. Read between the lines and it says, 0w-20 gives better fuel economy and 5w-20 or 5w-30 lubricate the engine better. FWIW, I use the USA recommended viscosity year round.




You came to the conclusion you wanted. The term is confirmation bias I believe.


All over the world except the USA (and maybe canada) Mazda 3 manual says its ok or recommended to use 5w30.
Again, makes much more sense choosing an oil for your climate, then choosing an oil by brand when something like Super Tech, lubricates just as good and anything else in the same API. ).

One wants an oil that does both lubricates well and cleans well. Glad to read that Dave only mentioned lubricating, in regards to his mention of Supertech. Nowhere on the 5w30 Supertech syn label does it mention benefits of cleaning.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

One wants an oil that does both lubricates well and cleans well. Glad to read that Dave only mentioned lubricating, in regards to his mention of Supertech. Nowhere on the 5w30 Supertech syn label does it mention benefits of cleaning.


I agree, there are a lot of people on here that seem to believe they'll get exactly the same performance out of Supertech synthetic as they will out of Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra Platinum, QSUD, etc. But I personally wouldn't trust Supertech synthetic to keep the engine as clean as one of the big brands in the long haul, especially in DI applications.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

One wants an oil that does both lubricates well and cleans well. Glad to read that Dave only mentioned lubricating, in regards to his mention of Supertech. Nowhere on the 5w30 Supertech syn label does it mention benefits of cleaning.


I agree, there are a lot of people on here that seem to believe they'll get exactly the same performance out of Supertech synthetic as they will out of Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra Platinum, QSUD, etc. But I personally wouldn't trust Supertech synthetic to keep the engine as clean as one of the big brands in the long haul, especially in DI applications.


Warren buys base stock from XOM …
doubt they use the combinations of two or three base stocks in the Mobil 1 jug …
ST meets minimum standards of basic engines … all good, but I prefer to support companies I see as more vital on a global scale. Walmart gets plenty from me w/o ST in the basket

 

[Bryanccfshr]

For me it's simple and fundamental that oil temps go up as the ambient temperature increases.
I have 0w20 Toyota care fill from the dealer a couple of weeks ago in my truck right now but temperatures are goi g into the hundreds. I will probably dump it and put M1 0w40 back in sooner rather than later. I trust the 0w20 whatever jobber brand they used until it gets fuel diluted, it doesn't take many short trips to get that.
If it was winter I would finish at least 5 k. That will be be my decision and I won't agonize over it.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by RayCJ
Here's a couple direct quotes from a Mazda3 owner's manual. Read between the lines and it says, 0w-20 gives better fuel economy and 5w-20 or 5w-30 lubricate the engine better. FWIW, I use the USA recommended viscosity year round.




You came to the conclusion you wanted. The term is confirmation bias I believe.


All over the world except the USA (and maybe canada) Mazda 3 manual says its ok or recommended to use 5w30.
Again, makes much more sense choosing an oil for your climate, then choosing an oil by brand when something like Super Tech, lubricates just as good and anything else in the same API. ).

One wants an oil that does both lubricates well and cleans well. Glad to read that Dave only mentioned lubricating, in regards to his mention of Supertech. Nowhere on the 5w30 Supertech syn label does it mention benefits of cleaning.



How can you keep posting the false narrative? Super Tech keep the engine just as clean as other brands with the same certifications and specifications.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by Patman
I agree, there are a lot of people on here that seem to believe they'll get exactly the same performance out of Supertech synthetic as they will out of Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra Platinum, QSUD, etc. But I personally wouldn't trust Supertech synthetic to keep the engine as clean as one of the big brands in the long haul, especially in DI applications.


"as clean as"..is that anecdotal or is there some hard data to back up that claim, because last I checked ST fs met or exceeds API SN+ and ILSAC GF5 requirements for fighting sludge and deposits.

Millions of cars are probably running ST/Amazon Basics right now with no issues whatsoever.

Sounds like you just have a "preference" and that's ok, but to insinuate that ST is somehow incapable of providing adequate protection flies in the face of objective data and empirical evidence of millions of miles being logged annually on the two Warren products.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter


Sounds like you just have a "preference" and that's ok, but to insinuate that ST is somehow incapable of providing adequate protection flies in the face of objective data and empirical evidence of millions of miles being logged annually on the two Warren products.


I don't believe that's what he's saying at all. GF-5 and API SN provide minimum levels of performance in a variety of categories. Pennzoil, for example, makes some bold claims regarding being X amount cleaner in these tests than other leading oils and Supertech isn't even on the list. If PU performs 40% better than SynPower in these tests and SynPower easily makes the grade, then odds are that PU is going to be even further ahead of SuperTech. That doesn't mean Supertech is a poor performer, as it certainly meets the requirements set out for the grade in question, it simply indicates that above that minimum performance bar, there are going to be products that are able to perform better than others in various metrics.

Another example: Maximum Noack volatility for API SN is 15%. However, several of the ACEA protocols lower that limit to 13%. Then, MB 229.5 lowers it again to 10%. And that's just one performance parameter where an OEM's limits are significantly more stringent than the API's.

Both Amazon Basics "Euro" oil and M1 0w-40 are API SN. M1 0w-40 has myriad OEM approvals, Basics has zero. While both oils handily meet the requirements for API SN, it's quite obvious that M1 0w-40 is going to be the better lube because it has to be to pass all the OEM tests that Basics hasn't.

 

[ka9mnx]

Doesn't being Dexos 1 Gen 2 licensed put ST/Amazon above API and ILSAC. BTW ILSAC is a step above API but ACEA trumps both of them. I've compared the specs between M1 5w-30 against ST 5w-30. Naturally I cannot compare formulas but the specs are compelling.

 

[badduxx]

The oil temperature differences between winter and summer are likely not different enough to make any difference one way or the other in my experience especially during the "stuck in traffic with AC on scenario."

Few vehicles have an oil temperature gauge. My 85 Corvette happens to have one, and although it is only one example, I doubt the overall trends are that different, especially when you are talking about much more efficient engines made of materials that disperse heat better than a gen 1 sbc.

When I first started reading on here, there were many folks that indicated it was a good idea to get your oil temperature up to 200+ to boil away any moisture. So, I set out to do Just that. Mind you, the car often runs in the 230 degree range and the first fan doesn't kick on until 235. In 90 degree weather, the oil simply would not get that hot enough to boil water without beating the living heck out of the car unless you ran it up a hill in third gear at 70 mph for 5-10 miles. My thought is that it is the kinematic action of the oil that gets it hot, not the engine operating temperature.

So I highly doubt that driving a modern vehicle driven without towing anything with an high geared fuel economy based automatic is going to go that much higher if at all no matter what the outside temperature. Especially at idle.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I don't believe that's what he's saying at all. GF-5 and API SN provide minimum levels of performance in a variety of categories. Pennzoil, for example, makes some bold claims regarding being X amount cleaner in these tests than other leading oils and Supertech isn't even on the list. If PU performs 40% better than SynPower in these tests and SynPower easily makes the grade, then odds are that PU is going to be even further ahead of SuperTech. That doesn't mean Supertech is a poor performer, as it certainly meets the requirements set out for the grade in question, it simply indicates that above that minimum performance bar, there are going to be products that are able to perform better than others in various metrics.


I agree with that 100%. But then it becomes a cost to benefit thing and everyone's driving style, climate is going to differ. So to me, it's really a personal decision. What might be right for me may not be right for another. And I respect the decision anyone makes regarding that. Who am I to say you shouldn't spend the few extra dollars more for a higher quality oil that you think will work best for you??? But for a big chunk of the vehicles on the road, those "minimum" API-SN/ILSAC GF5 standards are going to provide "adequate" protection and cleaning. I guess that was my point and I apologise for any misunderstanding in what was meant.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Doesn't being Dexos 1 Gen 2 licensed put ST/Amazon above API and ILSAC. BTW ILSAC is a step above API but ACEA trumps both of them. I've compared the specs between M1 5w-30 against ST 5w-30. Naturally I cannot compare formulas but the specs are compelling.


Yes, but then it still puts you in a group with all the other Dexos 1 Gen 2 licensed products, for which I'm sure, there are some stand-outs.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I don't believe that's what he's saying at all. GF-5 and API SN provide minimum levels of performance in a variety of categories. Pennzoil, for example, makes some bold claims regarding being X amount cleaner in these tests than other leading oils and Supertech isn't even on the list. If PU performs 40% better than SynPower in these tests and SynPower easily makes the grade, then odds are that PU is going to be even further ahead of SuperTech. That doesn't mean Supertech is a poor performer, as it certainly meets the requirements set out for the grade in question, it simply indicates that above that minimum performance bar, there are going to be products that are able to perform better than others in various metrics.


I agree with that 100%. But then it becomes a cost to benefit thing and everyone's driving style, climate is going to differ. So to me, it's really a personal decision. What might be right for me may not be right for another. And I respect the decision anyone makes regarding that. Who am I to say you shouldn't spend the few extra dollars more for a higher quality oil that you think will work best for you??? But for a big chunk of the vehicles on the road, those "minimum" API-SN/ILSAC GF5 standards are going to provide "adequate" protection and cleaning. I guess that was my point and I apologise for any misunderstanding in what was meant.


Yup, and that's the entire point of these performance bars, so you aren't wrong. When I can get M1 EP 0w-20 on sale and know I'm getting a majority PAO lube with a top-shelf additive package? Why wouldn't I. But it's personal preference.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted by Chris142
They don't know any better.

+1
They think the millions of $$$$'s the engineers use to test engine oils is useless.
So, they thumb their nose at the engineers and use what THEY think works better.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted by Bud
Because they believe everything they read here.

 

[juggernaut]

Down under, we tend to use a thicker viscosity in summer......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI2E7Mq7F4A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ltt35dlwIVM

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted by Chris142
They don't know any better.

+1
They think the millions of $$$$'s the engineers use to test engine oils is useless.
So, they thumb their nose at the engineers and use what THEY think works better.

That's how I feel. Somebody on this thread said something to the effect that it's fashionable to say "use what's specified". It's not fashionable or the in thing to say use what's specified. It's the truth... there's safety in using what's spec, the engineers who designed that engine spent countless hours and money coming up with those specs, so you deviate from the specs at your own peril. Now often the mfg offers you a range of oils that you can use and still be in spec. This is where asking for input from others can help you determine if another oil grade/weight would be as good or better than the factory fill 5/30 - in other words, is it a good fit.. I would be especially reticent about deviating from spec while under warranty but if I'm not, well then I'd be more open to other suggestions but never forgetting what is OE specified. It's all a part of the decision making process for me at least.

A good example is me.. I've always stuck with the 5w30 factor fill even though my manual allows me to use 5/20 or even 10w30. I've just always thought running 10/30 in a modern engine was crazy even though it was in my manual. But after reading about all the people running 10w30 in moderate climates in modern engines, I'm actually considering using it in the summer months. The feedback I gleaned from this thread (and others) has helped me overcome my "fear" of 10w30. I know my manual says I could run it, I just couldn't bring myself to putting it in. Which is crazy because with my first car ever, I just used SAE30. is that even around anymore, aside from maybe lawnmower engines??🤣

I personally don't see it as/people being redundant in saying use what's spec. It, for me at least, helps to have feedback good, bad or otherwise from people to reach consensus.

 

[userfriendly]

Oh, you'll never see a consensus reached on BITOG. The notion is almost laughable.

A "higher weight" oil in summer should mean a thicker base oil viscosity. For example going from a 10W30 to a 0W40 is a step or two thinner in the base oil department.

Going from a 15W40 to an SAE30 is a step thicker. Mono grades are the industrial workhorses of engine oils. Like your lawnmower, they are operated at their rated horsepower.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted by Chris142
They don't know any better.

+1
They think the millions of $$$$'s the engineers use to test engine oils is useless.
So, they thumb their nose at the engineers and use what THEY think works better.

As if the engineers make all the decisions. If everything was left to engineers, we still be riding horses.

 

[ChrisD46]

Originally Posted by Onetor
Some Owner's Manuals require a thicker viscosity at higher ambient temperatures. Check your OM. Just look at the viscosity our friends in Australia use....

*Hyundai / Kia have models (all in my sig) that state in the OM to use the oil best rated to your expected ambient temps over the next OCI .

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by userfriendly
A "higher weight" oil in summer should mean a thicker base oil viscosity. For example going from a 10W30 to a 0W40 is a step or two thinner in the base oil department.

Remember, though, that at least around here, the driving force for seasonal oil changes wasn't so much thicker for the summer but being able to start in the winter and hope what you were using wasn't too thin for what you were doing.