Rotela T6 05-40

[WisconsinDavid]

I have an older Can Am Spyder with a Rotax engine, 998. The manual calls for sg/sh/sj/sl ... but says no sm. Many have said that Rotella T6 in the weight above works well for them. The manual was authored 10 years ago. Can I run the t6 in the bike.? It is jaso MA and MA2 for use in wet clutches. My understanding is that T6 is an SN ... but unlabeled as such. Rotella's reputation and price point found me buying 2 gallons. Now not sure if I can safely use it ... or should maybe use it in a jeep 4.0 engine instead. Thanks for whatever guidance you can provide.

 

[donnyj08]

You can definitely use it. JASO MA/MA2 is the important part. The SM/SN of the new oil is superb compared to the older specs listed in your manual.

 

[Dyusik]

I would be using a 15w40 instead, but yeah brotella is fine.

 

[WisconsinDavid]

Will try the 15w40 in the future... just following the weight called for in the manual. That may be dated info too, as Rotax are also engines BRP uses in snowmobiles that are run at lower outdoor temps. Thanks for the advice on the oil. I just wanted to be sure the newer oil was not lacking something in its formulation that could cause harm in a 2010 Rotax compared to older S grades.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Actually Rotella T6 5w40 is not SN rated but it is CK-4 and JASO MA /MA2 and will be absolutely fine. Check www.rotella.shell.com

 

[AuthorEditor]

The new T6 15W-40 is also CK-4, no SN.

 

[WisconsinDavid]

I know that the T6 5w/40 does not carry the SN labeling. I did, however, check this week with a Shell engineer to make sure that the formulation of this product did not change from prior years when it did carry the SN labeling. Changes at API several years ago, caused Shell not to pursue continuance of spark cert. in labeling or promotion. There is a post on this site back in '17 to that effect by someone from the Shell Rotella team. Thanks for the help, everyone.

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Previously, heavy duty engine oil marketers could claim an API gasoline performance standard on their products if they met CJ-4 and the required performance tests for gasoline standards. Additionally, a waiver was granted for claims of API gasoline performance in cases where products did not meet the chemical restrictions for gasoline specifications (specifically phosphorous limits required for SN).

The recommended viscosity grades for modern gasoline engines are XW-20s and XW-30s. As such, this waiver process is being phased out. Heavy duty engine oils which are XW-30s (and which claim API CK-4 approval) cannot also claim API gasoline standards unless they meet the current phosphorous requirements/limits. The new fully synthetic Shell ROTELLA� T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W-30 is one such product that meets the performance requirements of API CK-4 as well as API SN and is formulated with 800 parts per million of phosphorous, which meets the API SN requirements.

While the industry waiver is still currently in existence for heavy duty engine oils that are XW-40�s, this remains in discussion to be addressed by the API in the near future. However, the Shell ROTELLA� brand has made the decision to remove API SN claims, regardless of viscosity, from our other products which do not meet the preferred low-phosphorous chemistry for gasoline engines. It is important to note that there is no change in formulation associated with this change. It simply means that Shell ROTELLA� products will no longer claim formal API SN approval for products other than our fully synthetic Shell ROTELLA� T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W-30 on labels, technical data sheets, rotella.com and marketing materials moving forward.


- The Shell Rotella Team

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by WisconsinDavid
The manual calls for sg/sh/sj/sl ... but says no sm.
Specifically, the Owner's Manual is worded as if they are concerned about too much Friction Reducer (modifier, or 'FM') interfering with clutch action. ( SM GF-4 oils (and subsequent SN GF-5 oil too) has to pass a Sequence VID fuel economy improvement test which almost all oils use FM to achieve. )

The Owner's Manual (below) really meant to say "SM and GF-4", since it is possible to have an SM or SN oil that is high friction, but if an oil has GF-4 or GF-5, that means friction is too low.
Remember friction is not the same as wear. You can be low wear with high friction, just sayin'.

Certainly JASO MA will probably be the spec to look for, as it tells you it is low FM, the higher friction needed for those clutches, and Rotella T6 5w-40 is JASO MA.

Interestingly, Shell Rotella T6 5w40 does have a light amount of moly FM (60 ppm), but its not enough to be a problem, apparently: "I have been using this oil in my 1998 Honda F6 Valkyrie Tourer for 6 years now, and have had no issues with clutch operation. Even at full throttle with the big 6 cylinder engine, no clutch slippage." --- from a review on Shell's website

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by WisconsinDavid
It is important to note that there is no change in formulation associated with this change. It simply means that Shell ROTELLA products will no longer claim "formal API SN approval" ........ moving forward.


It seems SO MANY of the BITOGER posts I read are from people that simply cannot comprehend something like this concept!

"BUT It doesn't meet SN!! The sky is falling!! It'll no longer protect your engine!!!" blah blah blah blah.......

 

[WisconsinDavid]

The Rotax engines are new to me. My Harley cycles have putted along the highway at 2500-3000 rpm... the rotax engine lives in the 4-5k powerband... so a much higher rev engine by design.They take some getting used to, as those RPMs would be screaming on a Harley and I would be hunting for a new gear to drop the rpm's down. For the Rotax that is normal and to go lower will actually lug them and do damage over the long haul. Also, their fuel economy deteriorates outside the high powerband. Thanks for the help with the oil quest for info. Have a good day everyone.

 

[AuthorEditor]

Not really comparable, but I have been using T6 5W-40 in a Ninja 500 since 2008 for some 35,000 miles, changing it out every 3-4,000. On the highway I'm running 6-7,000 RPM, sometimes for hours. Some people report it shears down quickly, but when I find the shifting gets a bit notchy I just change it out. It definitely starts much easier when down around freezing, and I have had zero engine issues.

 

[Dyusik]

Originally Posted by Linctex


blah blah blah blah.......


Could not have said it better myself!

 

[WisconsinDavid]

Doing a little more exploring and I've found that the 998 Rotax Spyders, which I have and new to me this season, are prone to clutch slippage. I keep finding conflicting info on the friction modifiers in the current formulation of T6. My understanding is that the moly and boron levels represent this. Some say there is little of either compared to other other cycle oils, but some say there is a pretty high level of both. I'm trying to make heads or tails of some conflicting things. I wish I was an oil guru. Can anyone shed light on Rotella t6 compared to amsoil for metric (which is amsoil's product for this bike) or to some other inexpensive oil like Rotella T6 that can be used in wet clutch applications? If I can't figure it out, the T6 I got on sale will turn into Jeep oil for a few oil changes... and I'll hunt something else to feed the Spyder. I don't want to do damage slipping a clutch - expensive to repair on these machines. I currrently am using BRP's (Can Am) blended synth, but on the road that oil is sometimes hard to come by. It is only offered at dealerships. That is why I wanted an oil I could walk into an auto parts store or Walmart and grab off the shelf.

 

[AuthorEditor]

The JASO MA, MA2 specification on the label is for wet clutch applications, and the API donut does not include the words "Energy Conserving." My understanding is you want to avoid "energy conserving" designated oils with wet clutches. Otherwise, you're good to go. The previous version of T6 was used by lots of folks in their wet clutch motorcycle applications. Be careful you don't use the new T6 "Multi-Vehicle" formulation. You want the regular T6 Full Synthetic Diesel Oil.