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Which Is More Important : KV @ 100 C. vs. HTHS In 5W30 ? #5106550
05/16/19 06:30 AM
05/16/19 06:30 AM
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Posts: 2,275
GA.
ChrisD46 Offline OP
ChrisD46  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2010
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GA.
As the title states which is more important - the KV rating @ 100 degrees C. or the HTHS ( for a summer oil fill using 5W30) ?


2017 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI 4 cylinder
2010 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 4 cylinder
2007 Kia Sedona 3.8L 6 cylinder
Re: Which Is More Important : KV @ 100 C. vs. HTHS In 5W30 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5106587
05/16/19 07:15 AM
05/16/19 07:15 AM
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South Carolina
ka9mnx Online content
ka9mnx  Online Content

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South Carolina
Depends on what you are trying to accomplish? Under what conditions besides "summer oil fill".


2005 Ranger 3.0 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Motorcraft
2000 4Runner 3.4 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Toyota
1997 B2500 Van 3.9 - M1 HM 10w-30/Mopar
1993 F150 4.9 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Motorcraft
Re: Which Is More Important : KV @ 100 C. vs. HTHS In 5W30 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5106594
05/16/19 07:32 AM
05/16/19 07:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,015
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content

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'Stralia
for a particular grade, in this case 5W30, HTHS is the most important of the two.

Oil film thickness - more HTHS
Economy - less HTHS


If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
Re: Which Is More Important : KV @ 100 C. vs. HTHS In 5W30 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5106597
05/16/19 07:41 AM
05/16/19 07:41 AM
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Posts: 5,145
New England
Virtus_Probi Online mad
Virtus_Probi  Online Mad

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New England
My amateur understanding is that HTHS is the better parameter for identifying what kind of protection an oil will give you against wear and damage, especially for hot weather driving.
I know an engine in proper condition will regulate its operating temp, but this funny thing happens where I notice my highest engine oil temps always occur in the summer!
Clearly the ambient has some effect upon engine temps, there is some slop in that feedback loop.

I could be way off here and would like to be corrected by an expert if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be desirable to make an oil with the KV100 of an XW20 and the 3.5+ HTHS of a dexos2 XW30 assuming no chemical or financial limits?
Would you be losing anything by having the oil be thinner as it circulated around the engine at "operating temp" as long as it had a good HTHS when it got heated up by friction at the metal boundaries?


2014 Forester XT, 100000 miles
Last Change;
M1 10W30 HM SN+
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Which Is More Important : KV @ 100 C. vs. HTHS In 5W30 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5106659
05/16/19 08:31 AM
05/16/19 08:31 AM
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oil_film_movies Offline
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HTHS is the most important. It approximates the conditions that is the worst in the engine. The KV100 does simulate big-end (connecting rod) low-speed driving, so it has some merit, yet physics mean if you have a good HTHS in the right range, KV100 will fall into place, so just look at HTHS by itself.

Re: Which Is More Important : KV @ 100 C. vs. HTHS In 5W30 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5106719
05/16/19 09:31 AM
05/16/19 09:31 AM
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NJ
bluesubie Offline
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NJ


'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Castrol Edge 0W-40
Re: Which Is More Important : KV @ 100 C. vs. HTHS In 5W30 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5106726
05/16/19 09:35 AM
05/16/19 09:35 AM
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Georgia
RDY4WAR Offline
RDY4WAR  Offline

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Georgia
SAE J300 has long been in need of reform. A much better way to categorize engine oil would be xxW-HTHS.

M1 ESP 5w-30 has a higher HTHS than M1 ESP 0w-40, as an example.


"He who is without oil, shall throw the first rod." - Compressions 9:1
Re: Which Is More Important : KV @ 100 C. vs. HTHS In 5W30 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5106898
05/16/19 01:15 PM
05/16/19 01:15 PM
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Virginia
Tom NJ Offline
Tom NJ  Offline

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Virginia
If your engine calls for a 5W-30 and you are using a 5W-30, then both the HTHS and the KV100 will be in the acceptable range to protect your engine. If you have made engine modifications or are driving under severe conditions that could increase the potential for wear, then a higher HTHS will provide more protection.

Re: Which Is More Important : KV @ 100 C. vs. HTHS In 5W30 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5107084
05/16/19 05:42 PM
05/16/19 05:42 PM
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Posts: 2,275
GA.
ChrisD46 Offline OP
ChrisD46  Offline OP

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*I'm thinking for a 5W30 synthetic I will see a minimum HTHS of 3.0 however if I can a 5W30 synthetic with an HTHS of 3.2 , 3.3, etc. up to 3.5 then that would be preferable ?


2017 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI 4 cylinder
2010 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 4 cylinder
2007 Kia Sedona 3.8L 6 cylinder
Re: Which Is More Important : KV @ 100 C. vs. HTHS In 5W30 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5107093
05/16/19 05:55 PM
05/16/19 05:55 PM
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oil_film_movies Offline
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Originally Posted by ChrisD46
*I'm thinking for a 5W30 synthetic I will see a minimum HTHS of 3.0 however if I can a 5W30 synthetic with an HTHS of 3.2 , 3.3, etc. up to 3.5 then that would be preferable ?
It's usually true that small increments upward of HTHS from the absolute minimum the engine maker recommends in the Owner's Manual and/or spec allowed will result in less wear.

Wear benefits taper off. It won't hurt your engine to have extremely high levels of HTHS, yet there is no benefit, as the graph shows. ( https://www.stle.org/images/pdf/STL...and%20Lubricity_tlt%20article_July09.pdf )


weargraphhths.JPG
Re: Which Is More Important : KV @ 100 C. vs. HTHS In 5W30 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5107115
05/16/19 06:34 PM
05/16/19 06:34 PM
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oil_film_movies Offline
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This is the picture that wouldn't upload in the previous post:

weargraphhths.JPG
Re: Which Is More Important : KV @ 100 C. vs. HTHS In 5W30 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5107485
05/17/19 08:30 AM
05/17/19 08:30 AM
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ChrisD46 Offline OP
ChrisD46  Offline OP

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My first summer time oil fill since becoming educated on the " documented possibility" of rod bearing issues with the 2.4L Thetta II GDI engines ... That is why I moved up to 5W30 D1 / Gen 2 / SN+ synthetic oils , so now I am looking within the synthetic 5W30 oils with the greatest film strength (to help cushion those rod bearings more ) .


2017 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI 4 cylinder
2010 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 4 cylinder
2007 Kia Sedona 3.8L 6 cylinder
Re: Which Is More Important : KV @ 100 C. vs. HTHS In 5W30 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5107656
05/17/19 12:22 PM
05/17/19 12:22 PM
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New England
Virtus_Probi Online mad
Virtus_Probi  Online Mad

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New England
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
My first summer time oil fill since becoming educated on the " documented possibility" of rod bearing issues with the 2.4L Thetta II GDI engines ... That is why I moved up to 5W30 D1 / Gen 2 / SN+ synthetic oils , so now I am looking within the synthetic 5W30 oils with the greatest film strength (to help cushion those rod bearings more ) .

I guess my knee jerk reaction to that situation would be to move to a 5W30 with HTHS>=3.5, or maybe a high HTHS 10W30 like the M1 HM I am using now since you are in Georgia and that would probably be fine for you all year long.
Or maybe go for an SN/GF5 5W30 like Valvoline AFS or MAG 1/Supertech/amazonbasics synth with HTHS=3.2.

The big question would be, is the nature of the rod bearing failure something on which HTHS would have an impact?
Could it be something like an inherent part strength or cracking issue that oil would have little to no bearing on? (pun intended)


2014 Forester XT, 100000 miles
Last Change;
M1 10W30 HM SN+
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Which Is More Important : KV @ 100 C. vs. HTHS In 5W30 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5107666
05/17/19 12:36 PM
05/17/19 12:36 PM
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Posts: 319
South Central PA
Vaca Offline
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South Central PA
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
My first summer time oil fill since becoming educated on the " documented possibility" of rod bearing issues with the 2.4L Thetta II GDI engines ... That is why I moved up to 5W30 D1 / Gen 2 / SN+ synthetic oils , so now I am looking within the synthetic 5W30 oils with the greatest film strength (to help cushion those rod bearings more ) .


I think Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W-30 from Walmart has an HTHS of 3.5. It's also Dexos 2.

Re: Which Is More Important : KV @ 100 C. vs. HTHS In 5W30 ? [Re: ChrisD46] #5107697
05/17/19 01:14 PM
05/17/19 01:14 PM
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sonoma
burla Offline
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Nothing better to gauge base oil performance then high temp hths viscosity, especially for summer oil. Doesn't matter which side of what you are serching for, gas mileage or metal protection. Want smooth engine get high hths, want that hollow no lubrication sound that will give better gas mileage in a lab, low hths is the way to go rah rah.

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