Cold temps, blown engine

[tiger862]

Customer doesn't have to say anything as they have a tattletale computer in cars today. Tech pulls up data it tells you temperatures, rpm, gear etc. If car was over revved before temp it will show it and customer can fight but will lose without a court fight. Example is I had a Tersel come in with check engine light sovi pulled code and could tell she was on cut off in high gear then brakes got applied. Wipers were on, headlights etc. so no warranty cause it was caused from unsafe conditions better known to dealer as abuse. Customer freaked out cause it was a lease and didn't want them to know how she drove. Many Camaros and Corvettes with missed shifts turned down warranty with motor and transmissions blown because of computer. How do you think insurance companies fight accident claims. Numerous computers techs use to diagnose then ultimately decline warranty repair services.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by demarpaint
billt460 you're right. Even if it was 10W30, a blown engine? For years I ran my van on 10W30, at the time 5W30 wasn't popular. Millions of engines survived colder temps than that with 10W-30 in the sump. I'm still driving my van, as are many other people who used 10W30 back in the day. It might not have been the best oil for cold climates, but it worked. There's more to this story.

It can be summed up by the owners irresponsible actions. Starting a frozen car in sub zero conditions, then by his own admission, immediately "flooring it" until the engine let go. At least that is what he is admitting to the dealer. That's insane. The only thing more insane would be the dealer agreeing to pay for the damage. The vehicle had, (according to dealer records), the proper oil in the engine. It was operated in a stupid, foolish manner, period.

No argument there, it must have been repeated abuse. I just tossed the defective engine as a possibility, highly unlikely in this case though.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by demarpaint
No argument there, it must have been repeated abuse.

For sure. I rather doubt this was his first rodeo at this sort of thing.

 

[Dave1027]

What kind of moron floors it when it's below zero? That is just asking for something bad to happen. Even if it does not harm the engine you are likely to spin out due to icy conditions.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by Driz
If people really paid attention to what they were cranking on they would learn the effects of hot and cold. Once you own a small plane you come to appreciate how extreme cold tightens an aluminum block engine up. At near zero the engine is very hard to roll over with the prop while 15 minutes with a tiny propane burner ducted up under there and it flops right over. It's really just that dramatically tight. There's many dissimilar metals in there competing for space. I'd try to just [censored] that thing to life and let it chug for a while if possible rather than primer it with raw gas and light it off to idle.
Those cars today are almost all aluminum blocked which gives them a lot more in Common with my old Continental than my old 327 SBC . Be gentle with those things in the cold . I quit letting them warm up long ago but when I drive off I just let it creep it's way gently along for a bit and slowly accelerate. Even using full synthetics I still do this.
One other thing to consider too is unlike oil of the past modern synthetics drain away more completely and far faster. That's not doing you any favors if you've had it sitting cold soaking a day or two then fire it up and floor it, ouch.

You bring up a good point about aircraft engines. Don't most piston powered aircraft have a specific engine oil temperature that much be achieved before you can draw takeoff power? That's not because it's so easy on the engine to pull full power from a dead cold start.

 

[tcp71]

Most owners manuals today tell not to idle your car to warm it up, but drive it gently until it gets to temperature. Give me the make, model and year and I'll find that statement in an online owner's manual.

That all being said, it today's world of engine management systems, there is no reason that the ECM couldn't control the engine to stay within safe parameters depending on temperature, if it is known that it will fail at full throttle when cold. Transmission torque converters don't lock up until certain fluid temperatures are reached. Engines run high idles at startup to heat catalytic converters, over rev limiters are programmed into the system and all manner of controls are implemented to provide the results manufacturers want. If the oil wasn't flowing properly, a low oil pressure warning should have occurred and the engine should have dethrottled, or never allowed the revs to get that high anyway.

Full throttle at -20 sounds like spinning tires anyway, which can over-rev the engine, which I find most likely the reason for the failure. Guaranteed to be stored in the computer (highest rpm in the last X-number of drive cycles).

 

[addyguy]

I'm wondering if it is a Hyundai 2.4 that already had problems, and this was the final straw.

OP didn't ever confirm make.

 

[robertcope]

This is why we can't have nice things, as the saying goes. Yeah, probably the operator was a moron. But if the manual does not say you can't do it, I suspect there is enough ground to stand on that they may get their engine replaced. Then the manufacturer will either add language to the warranty that hurts us all, or add more electronic nannies to make sure it can't happen, which is also annoying to most of us. Either way, most of us lose because of one or two idiots.

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted by addyguy
I'm wondering if it is a Hyundai 2.4 that already had problems, and this was the final straw.

OP didn't ever confirm make.


He said it was Japanese make so Hyundai is out. Someone threw out Nissan as a possibility which was not denied...nor confirmed either.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
I now that many years ago with some domestic USA OEM part of the testing was to go up to international falls, cold soak the car, start it , let it run a few seconds and then floor it onto the track and lap until fully warm, then back into the garage to cold soak. Rod

I wasn't aware that International Falls had a race track? Let alone one that was race worthy in the dead of Winter.



Post of the year nominee #2 ^^^^^^

That's

International Falls......" It's way cold up here... Start em and blow em up. That's how we roll.."

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by KCJeep
Originally Posted by addyguy
I'm wondering if it is a Hyundai 2.4 that already had problems, and this was the final straw.

OP didn't ever confirm make.


He said it was Japanese make so Hyundai is out. Someone threw out Nissan as a possibility which was not denied...nor confirmed either.



Bet I'm right... Nissan...

 

[admzn]

I just went for lunch with a coworker yesterday, and we took their car. They started it up and just took off, and it was -20C out. They drove quite aggressively too. I mentioned it and they basically shrugged it off. People like that don't deserve warranty coverage. I always let my cars run for around 5 min in this weather, and drive gently till it is up to temp.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by 69GTX
It's not very likely the owner actually admitted to.........."jumped in the car and as soon as it was started he floored it as he was late for work." More than likely that has been spun several times already in Interpretation. The term "flooring it" means different things to all of us. While I've "hammered" my cars at times....and never over red line, the pedal was never, ever pushed to the floor/firewall. And unless you're driving a vintage vehicle of sorts, you can't even "floor" the pedal. Maybe you can "firewall" it though.


Yeah, I highly doubt the gas pedal was actually to the floor (ie, wide open throttle). Even a car with 200 HP would be a handfull at full power. Obviously it's still possible to hit redline with small throttle opening. Any modern car (if the manufacturer is smart) should have the ECU limit RPM based on engine temperature. Pretty easy to do.

 

[tomcat27]

here is a quote from the owner's manual from one of my cars; I presume that his says the same thing - basically to drive gently at first especially when cold. It doesn't matter whether the owner admits it or not, an engine teardown by a skilled builder will generally reveal the source of failure. the goof should pay for his own replacement engine. why should the mfr pay for it?!?!? and as far as "did the owner's manual warm him"? does the owner's manual tell you to avoid hitting other cars head-on???

From a Nissan owner's manual:
"Allow the engine to idle for at least 30 seconds after starting. Do not race the engine while warming it up. Drive at moderate speed for a short distance first, especially in cold weather."

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by tomcat27
... and as far as "did the owner's manual warm him"? does the owner's manual tell you to avoid hitting other cars head-on???


Bad example since a car manufacturer isn't going to warranty what your insurance is responsible for.

It's still possible there was an engine flaw that happened to show up under the cold conditions. Can't really make a final decision until the engine and ECU stored data is analyzed.

 

[OilUzer]

what if someone (e.g. a high school kid) revs up & red lines excessively in 1st, 2nd & 3rd gear and kept it past red zone and destroyed the engine?
I can see dealers covering the cold case due to publicity ... but what about abuse when the engine is warm? Does the ECU store rpm/gear history & the intervals?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by demarpaint
No argument there, it must have been repeated abuse.

For sure. I rather doubt this was his first rodeo at this sort of thing.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by tomcat27
and as far as "did the owner's manual warm him"? Does the owner's manual tell you to avoid hitting other cars head-on???

From a Nissan owner's manual:
"Allow the engine to idle for at least 30 seconds after starting. Do not race the engine while warming it up. Drive at moderate speed for a short distance first, especially in cold weather."

 

[SatinSilver]

Quite possibly since the dealer that did the last oil change is in Florida they could have put some thick oil in it. Maybe that thicker oil is even listed on the last invoice. Anyway I would go straight to the manufacturer on this and talk to them about it. Which is what I've done in the past since it cuts out the middle man. Open up a claim with the manufacturer by calling their main customer service number and go from there.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by OilUzer
what if someone (e.g. a high school kid) revs up & red lines excessively in 1st, 2nd & 3rd gear and kept it past red zone and destroyed the engine?


Any modern car will have a rev limiter. Just look at all the squirrels on YouTube sitting in neutral bouncing off the rev limiter for minutes at a time with flames shooting out the exhaust pipes.