More robust spec - Dex1G2 or A40?

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Subject line is the essence of the question.

I've always understood that the A40 spec was very robust and of a higher benchmark than SN but now that dex1G2 has been around for a while, does it surpass A40 in terms of testing standards and results?

Not a specific application type of question but just how narrow the gap is between them in either the lab or real world.
 
The Porsche A40 spec is the tougher spec to meet..., BUT - -

Let's just say for a moment this is an actual "Apples -to-Apples" kind of test.....

The BEST question to ask is this:

1) Do they have the Cert because the oil will pass the test?
2) or do they have the Cert because they just paid the license CO$T$...
 
Originally Posted by Linctex
The Porsche A40 spec is the tougher spec to meet..., BUT - -

Let's just say for a moment this is an actual "Apples -to-Apples" kind of test.....

The BEST question to ask is this:

1) Do they have the Cert because the oil will pass the test?
2) or do they have the Cert because they just paid the license CO$T$...



I argued this before. More like pay to play. You have been really on target the last few days. Bravo!
Of course the cert masters here live certs and won't accept anything less.
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Here is a useful graphical oil-performance comparison tool:

https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html

Interestingly, it shows Porsche A30 to have higher performance than Porsche A40.
Interestingly, according to this chart, the mid-SAPS Porsche C30 (similar to dexos2 [not dexos1 Gen 2]) has higher performance than the full-SAPS Porsche A40.


But can you trust lubrizol that much?
 
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Here is a useful graphical oil-performance comparison tool:

https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html

Interestingly, it shows Porsche A30 to have higher performance than Porsche A40.
Interestingly, according to this chart, the mid-SAPS Porsche C30 (similar to dexos2 [not dexos1 Gen 2]) has higher performance than the full-SAPS Porsche A40.

But can you trust lubrizol that much?

Lubrizol, along with Infineum, Oronite, and Afton, is one of the few major oil-additive companies. They are the ones belonging to the consortiums that actually develop, formulate, and test the oil-performance specifications along with the car companies.

Basically, if you want to make an oil that satisfies a certain industry and/or OEM specification, you go to these additive companies and ask for the corresponding additive package.

For example:

http://newscenter.lubrizol.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=250972&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2285167
 
My answer would be this, given it's not even a fair apples to apples comparison. Would you run a dexos1 Gen2 oil in your Porsche? I probably wouldn't. Would I run an A3/B4 A40 in a vehicle calling for dexos1? Yes, at least a lot sooner than the other way around.
 
+ 1
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Here is a useful graphical oil-performance comparison tool:

https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html

Interestingly, it shows Porsche A30 to have higher performance than Porsche A40.
Interestingly, according to this chart, the mid-SAPS Porsche C30 (similar to dexos2 [not dexos1 Gen 2]) has higher performance than the full-SAPS Porsche A40.

But can you trust lubrizol that much?

Lubrizol, along with Infineum, Oronite, and Afton, is one of the few major oil-additive companies. They are the ones belonging to the consortiums that actually develop, formulate, and test the oil-performance specifications along with the car companies.

Basically, if you want to make an oil that satisfies a certain industry and/or OEM specification, you go to these additive companies and ask for the corresponding additive package.

For example:

http://newscenter.lubrizol.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=250972&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2285167


Ok,i didnt know. Thanks for the info! ðŸ‘
 
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Ok,i didnt know. Thanks for the info! ðŸ‘

Another trivia: Warren Buffet -- the third-richest person in the world -- bought Lubrizol:

DOW JONES, A NEWS CORP COMPANY

The Wall Street Journal
U.S. Edition


Why Warren Buffett just spent $10 billion
By Brett Arends
Updated March 18, 2011, 10:25 am ET


In other news on the markets this week, Warren Buffett quietly made an acquisition.

A big one. Even by his standards.

The 80-year old investor put down $9.7 billion, or about a quarter of Berkshire Hathaway 's entire cash pile, to buy Lubrizol Corporation, a specialty chemicals company based in Wickliffe, Ohio.

What does this mean for you? Warren Buffett's investment moves are usually worth a closer look, even if you're not one of his stockholders. After all, he's one of the most successful stock pickers ever. And it's never too late to practice your swing, even if your own stock portfolio is closer to $20,000 than, say, $20 billion.

A look through the company's financials reveals nine reasons Warren Buffett loves Lubrizol.

1. It has a lucrative niche.

Lubrizol's main business is making additives for fuel, which make engines run better and last longer. They are a small part of the cost of the fuel, but they are valuable to the end users and they are lucrative. Lubrizol's gross margins last year were a thumping 33%, up from 25% five years ago. The company's return on equity is 34%.

2. It has a wide moat.

Lubrizol has little trouble defending its business from competition. It has been around for 82 years - even longer than Mr. Buffett - and has built up a strong franchise. It is the market leader in the industry. And the fuel additives industry is technically advanced. Lubrizol owns a remarkable 1,600 patents and has 6,900 employees worldwide.

3. It's in a dull industry.

Nobody goes into the fuel additives business for the glamour. Venture capitalists are not throwing money after new fuel additives start-ups. Companies in the sector do not typically give away their products for free to gain market share, "eyeballs," "mind share" or the like. Indeed some of the existing players have been getting out - making life better for those who are left.

4. It has pricing power.

Mr. Buffett recently said "the single most important decision in evaluating a business is pricing power. If you've got the power to raise prices without losing business to a competitor, you've got a very good business." At a time of rising raw material costs, that's especially important. Lubrizol fits the bill. The company's own raw materials jumped 10% last year, but it was able to pass those costs on to its customers.

5. It's stable.

Sales fell 9% in 2009, but gross profits actually rose, from $1.1 billion to $1.5 billion. And the company says less than half of its revenues rely on boom-and-bust cyclical industries, such as construction and industrial production. Lubrizol had $2.7 billion in total liabilities at the end of last year - and $2.5 billion in cash and other current assets. Dividends have risen steadily, from $1.04 per share five years ago to $1.39 last year.

6. It benefits from overseas growth.

Two-thirds of last year's revenues came from outside the U.S.A. The company has 40% of its plant and equipment overseas. And that's rising. Last fall Lubrizol broke ground on a new factory in southern China, that will begin production in 2013. The company is a big beneficiary from economic growth in emerging markets. In countries like China, India and Brazil, hundreds of millions of people are moving into the middle class, buying cars, and driving them more. Every drive needs fuel, and every gallon of gas needs additives.

7. It has low unionization.

Just 4% of Lubrizol's U.S. employees are members of a union (although some overseas workers are also members of collective bargaining agreements). That's good for profits. Mr. Buffett may be a Democrat at nights and on weekends, but when he's at the office he's all business.

8. The stock was reasonably priced.

Even a great company can be a bad investment if you pay too much for it. In the case of Lubrizol, Mr. Buffett is paying $135 a share. That's less than 13 times last year's earnings, and 12 times forecasts for 2011. If you find a good company at a good price, who cares what "the market" is doing?

9. He likes the management.

Lubrizol chief executive James Hambrick has been with the company since 1973, when he started there as a co-operative education student. He's been CEO for seven years. "Lubrizol is exactly the sort of company with which we love to partner - the global leader in several market applications run by a talented CEO, James Hambrick," Mr. Buffett said when he announced the deal. "Our only instruction to James - just keep doing for us what you have done so successfully for your shareholders."
 
Originally Posted by Linctex
Hmmm.... I wonder if they are the #1 world leading producer of the Techron ingredient, PEA?

I'm a big fan of Chevron with Techron gas. I don't use anything else. I don't think any other gas company has caught up with that additive.

Chevron has its own additive company called Oronite.

Scroll to the 13:20 of the following video:

http://pixa.club/en/the-simpsons/season-14/epizod-7-special-edna
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Here is a useful graphical oil-performance comparison tool:

https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html

Interestingly, it shows Porsche A30 to have higher performance than Porsche A40.
Interestingly, according to this chart, the mid-SAPS Porsche C30 (similar to dexos2 [not dexos1 Gen 2]) has higher performance than the full-SAPS Porsche A40.


Interesting but isn't being a 40w one of the requirements for A40 and a 30W for A30?.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Flashlightboy
Subject line is the essence of the question.

I've always understood that the A40 spec was very robust and of a higher benchmark than SN but now that dex1G2 has been around for a while, does it surpass A40 in terms of testing standards and results?

Not a specific application type of question but just how narrow the gap is between them in either the lab or real world.




It's worth mentioning that the Lubrizol chart is ONLY useful for comparing specs within the same OEM (ex, 504 vs 502, LL01 vs LL01FE, etc). I've made this mistake numerous times.
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Interesting but isn't being a 40w one of the requirements for A40 and a 30W for A30?.

It's C30, not A30. They are both thick oils (HTHSV >= 3.5 cP). A40 means ACEA A3/B4 (not xW-40) and C30 means ACEA C3 (not xW-30). It's quite possible that Porsche also put an xW-y restriction like you mentioned.
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
It's worth mentioning that the Lubrizol chart is ONLY useful for comparing specs within the same OEM (ex, 504 vs 502, LL01 vs LL01FE, etc). I've made this mistake numerous times.

It's not that restrictive. You can't compare entirely different specs but you should be able to compare similar specs with similar tests, such as two different OEMs following the same ACEA category (such as A3/B4) or even within the same ACEA family (such as ACEA Ax/By).

For example, both ACEA A3/B4 (Porsche A40) and ACEA C3 (Porsche C30) employ the same CEC L-99-08 (OM646LA) diesel-engine wear test and CEC L-78-99 (VW TDI) DI diesel piston cleanliness & ring sticking test. In fact, all nine engine tests employed by ACEA Ax/By vs. Cz are identical. Therefore, all comparisons are entirely valid in this case. C30 is a tougher spec than A40 virtually by all means.

As I mentioned somewhere else, Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 scored the highest base-oil quality index (BOQI) currently available with a 5W-30 (BOQI = 70.9, CCS @ -30 C = 5,033 cP, NOACK = 5.6%), perhaps due to use of some ester, and satisfies Porsche C30 and GM dexos2.
 
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