Keto Diet with Intermittent Fasting

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Also check out the Pedo diet that Dr. Hyman from the Cleveland Clinic recommends. I saw him on PBS the other night. Seems to have some good tips.

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Yes a excellent set of books have many and can pick one I would get Food what the Heck I should eat. I think much and if not all many people have ripped off The Dukan Diet and put their own twist on it.
 
Originally Posted By: Ifixyawata
Every food/nutrition related thread in here undoubtedly attracts the people who say "JUST WATCH WHAT YOU EAT, CALORIES IN-CALORIES OUT" and with that oversimplify any possible nutritional strategy anyone could have, attempting to debunk it. LOL.

It's like the threads started about a sport where the same old people come in every time and say "..something something overpaid" or "I hate this sport, I would never ever watch it".


At the fundamental level, it really is a calories in = calories out formula. If you eat more than you burn, that lingering "energy" has to go somewhere.. and into the fat cells it often goes.


BUT you are correct that oversimplifcation is a big problem when diets are discussed.

Some of us just like eating.. and people who don't really crave certain foods or were raised to not finish their plate clean don't tend to have weight issues.

For example, I have a friend who typically only eats half the plate.. regardless of what he orders. It could be a $2 hamburger or a $50 steak.. and once he eats about half, he's done and that's it until his next meal. I don't know if it's how he was raised or if he has a tiny stomach.. but the guy doesn't really do anything physical and maintains a twig-like figure.

But those of us who love pasta, pizza, donuts, etc.. man it's tough to just eat a modest portion and call it done. Depending on how far along we are on the path to T2 diabetes, our insulin/ghrelin/leptin responses are out of wack. This is where a diet like Keto shines because it's basically a "hack" where you keep insulin at bay while still enjoying rich and filling foods like bacon, eggs, steak etc.

Being in ketosis, and eating very little sugar pretty much turns food into nourishment rather than a reward for me. Most days I have to force myself to have a balanced dinner because I just don't have an appetite or cravings. This makes weight loss incredibly easy and it really turns into a calories in < calories out situation.

And on days where I'm really busy, I can get by without eating at all because my body is already primed to convert fat into energy.. and that changes the dynamic entirely. When I first experienced this phenomenon, my mind was blown because on a normal dietary intake I'd be cranky and starving..
 
Originally Posted By: Reddy45

But those of us who love pasta, pizza, donuts, etc.. man it's tough to just eat a modest portion and call it done.


You forgot ice cream, snack cakes, etc. I'll admit I was almost sad when I didn't crave those things anymore as they were so enjoyable for such a long time.

I also struggle with breaking the "FAT IS BAD, EAT ONLY LEAN" stigma attached to everything, still. So many fire off advice about how bad red meat or any meat is but what should we really be eating if fatty meats are so, alleggedly cholesterol-spiking?

I'm not staying the course too well right now but when I was deep into keto earlier this year and my employer had a wellness sort of thing you could participate in for reduced health insurance rates. Fatty meats all day every day and my cholesterol numbers were not elevated. And I have previously had bad cholesterol numbers to the point that it was a cause for concern.
 
Originally Posted By: Ifixyawata
Originally Posted By: Reddy45

But those of us who love pasta, pizza, donuts, etc.. man it's tough to just eat a modest portion and call it done.


You forgot ice cream, snack cakes, etc. I'll admit I was almost sad when I didn't crave those things anymore as they were so enjoyable for such a long time.

I also struggle with breaking the "FAT IS BAD, EAT ONLY LEAN" stigma attached to everything, still. So many fire off advice about how bad red meat or any meat is but what should we really be eating if fatty meats are so, alleggedly cholesterol-spiking?

I'm not staying the course too well right now but when I was deep into keto earlier this year and my employer had a wellness sort of thing you could participate in for reduced health insurance rates. Fatty meats all day every day and my cholesterol numbers were not elevated. And I have previously had bad cholesterol numbers to the point that it was a cause for concern.


My take is, as long as you are quite active at least a few hours a week -- cholesterol levels are not a concern. Someone who is COMPLETELY sedentary and also trying to lose weight should practice more moderation. Seems only fair.
 
My boss, a co-worker and myself started the Keto diet a few days ago (we didn't plan it together). I completely tore my hamstring in May so I've been quite lazy for the past few months and really packed on the pounds. My right leg is finally strong enough to do about 20-25 minutes on the elliptical and I've started back up lifting weights. I hope to lose about 20-30 pounds by Thanksgiving. Giving up beer drinking kinda sucks and I absolutely crave tortilla chips and Ritz crackers. But I like cottage cheese, spinach, eggs and all the other foods that the Keto diet recommends.
 
Originally Posted By: Reddy45


Some of us just like eating.. and people who don't really crave certain foods or were raised to not finish their plate clean don't tend to have weight issues.



I'm Italian background and love eating and also could eat 24/7 I always have the hunger feeling just varying levels of it depending on when I ate last so this was a big thing I had to overcome. What I liked about Keto is that I found it really turned of the hunger 90% of the time and killed all the cravings for junk food, sweets, and the temptations of eating something I shouldn't.

That said I haven't been cheating, counting calories, watching my macros and adjusting it all while keeping activity levels up. I think I might add some sort of fasting to it further than I have already.

Dr. Jason Fung here from Canada is a bit of an expert on the matter and has good information to back it up with studies so that was my next route.
 
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
My take is, as long as you are quite active at least a few hours a week -- cholesterol levels are not a concern. Someone who is COMPLETELY sedentary and also trying to lose weight should practice more moderation. Seems only fair.


My father inlaw struggled with Cholesterol and was quite active including at the gym. He is pretty trim and tried the whole low fat more fiber diet and just couldn't seem to shake the cholesterol. I told him to switch to a Keto diet. He was hesitant at first with all the fats he would consume that would fly in the face of his doctors advice but 1 month later his cholesterol dropped drastically and the following month he went off his medication. His doctor was in awe.

My spouse had the same problem along with Type-2 diabetes. Reversed both in a matter of months. Went off all medications for Cholesterol and Diabetes.
 
Some good video's I stumbled on this week... Makes a lot of sense and this guy is a Canadian doctor with a credible record.
 
Fung is a quack. I do believe he contradicts himself many times. I believe the Minnesota Starvation Experiment proves that most if not all of the metabolic slowdown is due to the weight loss. It also proves that the 40% BMR cited by Fung was only 15% for the person who had the largest drop. All others had a lesser drop in BMR.

Fung argues that a calorie is not a calorie. I.E. a calorie from fat is different than a calorie from carbohydrates or protein. - False, with respect to energy, a calorie is a calorie. Eat more than you need and your body will store unused calories as fat.

He argues that diets don't work and people regain the weight.

But what he fails to account for and study is do the people continue to eat less and move more? If someone loses 50# and then celebrates for the next 6 months by eating tacos and cake, they will soon gain back the weight.

The amount of weight lost on any of the various diet programs out there, Keto, Atkins, Weight Watchers, etc is pretty much the same. So it's not the diet. The question is do you stick to it? Not that you have to eat in a deficit all your life, as you will keep losing weight if you are in a caloric deficit. Ever seen a fat concentration camp survivor picture? Probably not.

Once a person transitions from weight loss to maintenance, they have to gradually increase their food intake to see where their maintenance caloric level is. For me, that's probably going to be between 2500-3000 calories/day as I'm pretty active. But then I'm 5'11" and at the moment 218#

Later, and 20-30# lighter and those numbers will change.

I will have to keep using my food scale. (You are using a food scale, right? Measuring cups and eyeball estimates can be way off. A food scale set for grams is most accurate and how I weigh my calorie dense foods like meats, fats, starches and sauces. Things like the 114g grilled chicken breast I had in my omelette this morning with 28g of cheese. I don't weigh non-starchy vegetables, but I will weigh out a potato before I cook it. I do try to build in over estimates so I don't have to weigh everything. I'm not going to weigh the spinach in a salad. But I will weigh out the salad dressing...

Human behavior is that most people won't keep doing that after they reach their goal. So that 28g of cheese becomes 35 or 50, because lazy. Or they fill a bowl with cereal, log it as a portion, when in reality, the typical bowl we use in North America is 2-3 servings of most cereals.

Now, I've learned some tricks for those circumstances when I'm out and can't whip out a food scale. A serving of lean meat needs to be smaller than the palm of my hand. That will put it in the 4-6oz 112-160g range.

Regarding T2D: one doesn't reverse it. It's more like remission, but even that isn't really the right term. You can control your blood glucose with diet and exercise. Mostly diet.

My N=1 study shows that even working out 4 to 6 days each week, you can still have an A1C in the diabetes range if you eat crap.

So by simply making better food choices and staying around 2000-2500 calories day, I've lose 47+ pounds and my A1C is down from 7.3 to 5.4 after the first three months. I'll have it tested again in a couple of weeks.

I take a BG reading once per day, in the morning after a 6-8 hour fast. If my BG is below 100, I'll eat my banana before I go to the gym. If it's above, I don't and will check it again when I get home.

It's usually under 100 after a serious workout.

Averages are:

Past Week 93
Past 2 Weeks 92
Past 30 days 93
Past 90 days 101

Range of 70-100 for BG is considered normal.

No heroic measures are needed. What you choose to eat can impact how hungry you feel, satiation. But as far as an energy perspective, my body doesn't really care of the ~440 calories I had this morning were from little chocolate donuts or a 3-4 egg omelette, 115g of grilled chicken breast, a cup of peppers and onions and 28g of cheese with a bit of salsa.

But I won't be hungry until noon with the omelette. The LCD will have me hungry by 10am...
 
To answer your question, yes I'm measuring things.
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Ok, so this past weekend I did a 48 hour fast and then as of yesterday (Monday) I went down to one meal a day and ate keto but conservatively on the protein with high good amounts of fat and dark leafy greens. As of Sunday night I had lost 5lbs, and yesterday I lost 1lb. Hoping the trend continues because it means I broke this stubborn plateau.

I had mild hunger on Saturday, no hunger on Sunday and by the evening just before I ate I had an incredible boost of energy an overall feeling of calmness like warm/fuzzy. It was really interesting.

I purposely didn't do any cardio during the fast or on Monday either to ensure it was all diet driven.

I think that is my answer. One meal a day Keto based and then monitor. Add weekend fast if necessary to improve results from the week.

Super happy!
 
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So the question is, you lost 6# of what?

Fat?
Muscle?
Depleted Glycogen with associated H20?
Eliminated waste?

Look, I'm glad you are losing weight. However, I just hope you have realistic expectations. It's unlikely you burned 21000 calories over the course of 72 hours, meaning some of the loss has to be water and eliminated waste since you didn't eat for 48 hours and you probably depleted a fair bit of glycogen stores in your body.

The typical human keeps 300-700g of glycogen, plus nearly 4g of H20 for every gram of glycogen stored in muscles and the liver.

This is why I caution people who resort to heroic methods to move the scale. Much of the movement will be other than fat items.

Weight loss <> Fat Loss
 
There are no shortcuts to losing weight and getting fit.

Calories in, calories out.

Diet and exercise.

Abandon the fad diets and start exercising.
 
Java:

Considering my body has been running on fats for a while now and I only had mild hunger the first day of the 2 day fast and no hunger the second day I'm assuming I'm burning fat reserves and not breaking down muscle. (Fat adapted from Keto diet for such a long time) If I were insanely hungry similar to a calorie restricted diet that includes carbs this would suggest starvation and would lead me to believe I would be burning fat and breaking down muscle as well.

Further I have depleted my Glycogen stores for the most part (I do realize that you can't use up 100% because the body will always keep some reserves), because testing my blood shows a large amount of Ketones in there suggesting the body is using fat reserves instead to manufacture glucose for the brain due to the lack of glucose consumption / carbs converting to glucose.


John:

It's not a FAD diet, it's a really old diet that is gaining popularity because of the health benefits it offers. I was Type-II diabetic before starting the diet and needed medication to keep sugar in control even with a reduced carb diet and proper eating plan. 1 Week on Keto and I didn't need medication at all and my sugar has never gone past 5.5 (100) and the longer I have been on it, it now sits at about 4.4 (80) regularly with minute fluctuations.
 
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Originally Posted By: StevieC
John:

It's not a FAD diet, it's a really old diet


You ain't kidding. I think a lot of folks seem to forget that humans *invented* agriculture; and it is a diet based on agricultural output (almost entirely carbohydate-based: grains, grains and more grains) that forms our modern concept of diet. I would say it is exactly our agriculture-based diet that is the fad; albeit a long-lasting one. I shudder to think, too, at how we'd feed 7+ billion souls without wheat, rice, barley, corn, etc.
 
It's insane when you compare disease rates to the things in diets today compared to 100 years ago. It's our over consumption of highly processed, carb & sugar dense foods that is literally killing us.
 
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Or it could be the pre-packaged snack cakes and similar that are the fad.

The majority of Americans are less than 10 minutes travel from fast food and packaged snacks. C-stores and fast food places have exploded in the last two generations.

That's the fad, not farming. That's been on-going for 5000 years give or take.

You can get off the couch, sit in your car, drive 5-10 miles and get take out, or donuts and a slushee, or whatever.

You don't have to work for your food today.

You don't even need to get out of your car at most fast food places. You can order at one window and pick it up at the next.

With Uber Eats, you can pay to have it brought to you.

That's the fad, or at least the recent developments, not farming....

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: StevieC
John:

It's not a FAD diet, it's a really old diet


You ain't kidding. I think a lot of folks seem to forget that humans *invented* agriculture; and it is a diet based on agricultural output (almost entirely carbohydate-based: grains, grains and more grains) that forms our modern concept of diet. I would say it is exactly our agriculture-based diet that is the fad; albeit a long-lasting one. I shudder to think, too, at how we'd feed 7+ billion souls without wheat, rice, barley, corn, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour

You can get off the couch, sit in your car, drive 5-10 miles and get take out, or donuts and a slushee, or whatever.


Within a mile radius I have for fast food:

2 McDonalds
1 taco bell
1 wendys
1 KFC
1 Arbys
1 Panera Bread
1 Culvers
1 Noodles & Company
1 Firehouse subs
1 White castle
2 Dunkin Donuts
1 Starbucks
A Bajillion pizza places

Forget adding in another mile, that'll make the list too [censored] long. I lost probably lost the most weight in the past few months when I got my tints because I couldn't roll down my windows LOL.
 
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