Auto Start / Stop Feature.

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: Dave1027
Had it on a loaner BMW X3 and hated it. The dam thing was shutting off at stop signs for crimony sakes! You know whatever gains you get on MPG will be used up and then some on a starter replacement. Plus it was annoying.


The starter is cheap to replace when compared to having to replace the flexplate

 

[Superflan]

Here’s what I think: the most advanced S&S systems are designed like they’re supposed to be: AGM/lithium battery, electric oil pump/coolant pump, coated bearings, smart electrical system that do charging on decel along with starter-generators.

They are built tough but usually the battery will not last more than 3 years while making S&S function correctly, then S&S stops working but car behaves like a normal car for 2 years or so before the battery dies.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Most BMWs can be coded so that the auto stop/start system defaults to off. Many-like my 2014 F22-allow you to switch it off permanently without coding. I leave it on; with the N22 restarts aren't obtrusive and anyway, the motor automatically restarts if the interior gets too warm(summer) or cool(winter).
When I want to hoon around I set the car and ZF8HP to "Sport"- which disables stop/start.


A friend just bought a 2015 F30 335i about a week ago and it has the start/stop. It didn't seem too bad to me but he said it had a noticeable hesitation when starting back up. It annoyed him enough that he already coded it out.

 

[MNgopher]

I physically cannot move my foot from the brake pedal to the gas pedal fast enough that the engine is not running by the time I am on the gas. (this is in my 16 F150). (unless I drive with 2 feet...) The comments about it taking 1-2 seconds to start are not an issue on a properly set up start stop system - there is a lot of neat stuff going on in the background for quick starts that I won't get into here. It is not the direct equivalent of a cold key off ignition start.

I'll put it this way - in 30,000 miles the system has never made me feel unsafe, no matter what hypotheticals folks like to throw out there.

Does it take some getting used to the feel? Yes. Some adjustment of habits to manipulate the system the way desired? Yes. Does that automatically make it bad? No. Just different.

 

[tenderloin]

Just use sport mode on the tranny. I like that mode around town anyway
Originally Posted By: MParr
My Ford Escape has it and I hate it. I wish there were some way to permanently disable it.

 

[dogememe]

I would hate that feeling. If I ever bought a car with that feature I'd get a tune or whatever I had to do to disable it. As you can tell by the vehicles in my signature, fuel economy is not my top priority.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I had that in three cars in Europe - a BMW diesel wagon, a Volvo diesel wagon, and an MB A class petrol. All worked just fine, and I can't comprehend what the issue is other than fearing another bogey man in the room.

Hybrids turn on and off under far more severe conditions. Do they have problems? I'd say no.

Why? The motor-generator is rated for it.

Start stop gets the fuel saving benefits of a hybrid when in traffic, with no hybrid power train, which is another bogey man some love to hate.

Rate the starter correctly for the duty cycle, it's not a big deal. Size the battery to allow the loads (havoc primarily) to run appropriately and be charged back up appropriately, and Im not seeing the issue.

As I said in the hybrid battery thread, 40+ mpg in a full featured midsize or larger car is the anomaly, not the rule. It requires full highway cruising, and drops from there. Hybrids may do 40ish with high speed highway use, but that's the floor and they can only climb.

Start stop gets one of the biggest fuel wasters (idling at lights/stoped in traffic) out of the mix, in a far simpler design.

I would be concerned with it operating on turbo vehicles, as even if the water cooling continues, the oil flow would be disrupted.


So you don't fear one boogeyman, but you are fine creating another one for the turbo equipped cars. OK, sounds perfectly rational.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I would be concerned with it operating on turbo vehicles, as even if the water cooling continues, the oil flow would be disrupted.


That's where my concern is also. The Chevy Malibu has a 1.5 liter turbo engine and the stop/start feature. And the only car that Consumer Reports doesn't recommend in the crowded midsize category. Thus it comes in dead last.

Meanwhile the Impala comes in first place in the full size category ahead of the Avalon. The Impala can only be obtained with NA engines. Both engines in the Malibu are turbocharged. Same thing with the new Accord, both engines are turbos.

 

[cookieman214]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
I rented a chevy small car in vegas, i don't remember which model ( maybe a cruze?). It had the stop start feature. I found it very annoying and not something i would every buy unless it could be completely disabled.


Same thing happened to me in Ft. Lauderdale. The Chevy Cruze is the reason my wife does not allow me to pick out rental cars anymore. Only she is allowed to pick. My input is neither allowed, solicited, nor acknowledged. My only function is to pay, load and drive. One strike and I was out. I can't be trusted she said.

I loaded our luggage and away we went. All was well until the first traffic light. I stopped, car shut off. Until that happened, I had no idea about the S+S feature of that car. Light turned green, I gave the car gas, and BAM! I honestly thought I had been rear ended at the light, the startup and forward movement was so rough.

This continued to happen until I learned to put the car in neutral at traffic lights, engine kept running and all was smooth.

 

[SatinSilver]

^ That's another car with a turbo engine and the S.S. feature. 1.4 liter turbo. I test drove a Malibu with it so I can relate.

 

[Andrew1972]

I read some odd fears like the delay etc. In my wife's 2018 Tiguan as soon as let up on brake pedal slightly it starts the engine. Knowing this when we sense light will change we simply have adapted to adjusting foot without much thinking.

It takes less than 1/2 second to start the motor it seems. These kind of starts are not the normal ones in terms of time, they are extremely quick and instant with the warmed motored which the start/stop only allows itself to work with.

 

[Inked]

I am also in the “not a fan” group and while not what you would consider a “tree-hugger”, I am a fan of cleaner air over slight annoyance. I hadn’t read in any of the previous posts but mine also restarts if I turn the steering wheel slightly even if the brake is still applied. Other models as well?

 

[antonmnster]

Had it in my manual transmission Peugeot 5008 on vacation in eastern Europe. It was barely noticeable. By the time the clutch pedal was at the floor on a green light, it was running. But the yellow traffic lights turn on with the red, before the green, so the timing is a lot better.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I had that in three cars in Europe - a BMW diesel wagon, a Volvo diesel wagon, and an MB A class petrol. All worked just fine, and I can't comprehend what the issue is other than fearing another bogey man in the room.

...

I would be concerned with it operating on turbo vehicles, as even if the water cooling continues, the oil flow would be disrupted.


So you don't fear one boogeyman, but you are fine creating another one for the turbo equipped cars. OK, sounds perfectly rational.


Let's see. Ive driven multiple EGR-equipped turbodiesels to way beyond 200k mikes without a single issue.

Ive owned one single turbo and own a twin turbo gasoline vehicle now. I have pretty good experience with another twin turbo vehicle that ran nicely past 150k.

Turbos are used extensively in industrial and trucking applications.

So what is the concern about turbos exactly that you try to add such an argument?

Because in my view it's simply not there in a properly maintained vehicle.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: MNgopher
I physically cannot move my foot from the brake pedal to the gas pedal fast enough that the engine is not running by the time I am on the gas. (this is in my 16 F150). (unless I drive with 2 feet...) The comments about it taking 1-2 seconds to start are not an issue on a properly set up start stop system - there is a lot of neat stuff going on in the background for quick starts that I won't get into here. It is not the direct equivalent of a cold key off ignition start.

I'll put it this way - in 30,000 miles the system has never made me feel unsafe, no matter what hypotheticals folks like to throw out there.

Does it take some getting used to the feel? Yes. Some adjustment of habits to manipulate the system the way desired? Yes. Does that automatically make it bad? No. Just different.


Well said.

While we cannot ignore the fact that some systems are perhaps not as well implemented, and therefore more "clunky" in operation, many of the comments are uninformed.

 

[meep]

Originally Posted By: Inked
I am also in the “not a fan” group and while not what you would consider a “tree-hugger”, I am a fan of cleaner air over slight annoyance. I hadn’t read in any of the previous posts but mine also restarts if I turn the steering wheel slightly even if the brake is still applied. Other models as well?


Mine is based upon several factors. Some is from the owners manual and some based on observation. Steering is not one of them. Even though it's electric, it is dead until the engine is running, arguably for battery protection.
1. S/S checks battery voltage and won't activate if the voltage is low
2. S/S won't engage in tow and sport modes (trans mode)
3. S/S won't engage if defrost, or at least an aggressive defrost mode is active
4. S/S restarts if you lower the AC temp or increase cabin fan speed during a stop
5. S/S restarts while still stopped if the AC is on and the cabin temp rises. The duration appears to be intelligent, ie., shorter off period when it's hotter out
6. S/S reads the brake pedal. IDK if it's based on position or pressure applied. Unless I side-step the pedal, the starter is engaged before my foot clears it.

As I mentioned before, Ford did a good job with this one, and I'll gladly use it. It now feels odd to me, ironically, to be sitting in an idling car at the light. It's just different. BUT, if it were not as well done, if it were intrusive, or slow, or caused me to not move when I want to, I'd be ranting about how bad it was. In this case, however, it's /quick/ and seamless.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: meep

As I mentioned before, Ford did a good job with this one, and I'll gladly use it. It now feels odd to me, ironically, to be sitting in an idling car at the light. It's just different. BUT, if it were not as well done, if it were intrusive, or slow, or caused me to not move when I want to, I'd be ranting about how bad it was. In this case, however, it's /quick/ and seamless.


I feel exactly the same way about the system in my 2 Series- it's not an issue.

 

[SeaJay]

That feature is one that would drive me back to the evils of heavy drinking on a regular basis. No doubt about it!

 

[Mitsu_Joe]

The Start/Stop feature isn’t helpful at all for the engine considering how the coolant- and oil-cycle works.
Engine oil and coolant reach much higher temperatures after the engine is stopped and the waterpump/oilpump/Turbo isn’t running anymore.
This in combination with citydriving or stop and go is the best recipe to increase wear on your coolant, oil, engine, turbo.
Its no miracle that we see many newer vehicles with damaged turbos, happened to my neighbor already after 100k miles.
Manufacturers try to evit the point by using electronic waterpumps/oilpumps, but those usually like to go bad as well after some time and end up causing a whole lot of problems.

 

[meep]

That's a good point about coolant/oil cycling. So the question is how long before the heat soak becomes a problem. I've never experienced a "stop" in mine to last more than about 30 seconds before it restarts. do you think 30 seconds is enough time for any kind of issue with heat soak? In my old jeep, coolant temps took 3-4 after stop to reach the max they were going to hit.

I wonder if the system stays running if it knows it's hot enough to a point where it would be concerning.