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Thick or Thin: What's more important for storage? #4810997
07/11/18 07:00 AM
07/11/18 07:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Michigan
Building3 Offline OP
Building3  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Michigan
So for cars that are not used that much, for instance not at all in the winter in northern climates and perhaps once a week or so during nice weather, what's more important, a thin oil, say 0w-30 or something like that which may circulate quickly; or a thicker oil like 15w-50 that might adhere to bearings and other internal parts better than thin. I don't have enough technical knowledge to know, but both arguments sound reasonable.

Re: Thick or Thin: What's more important for storage? [Re: Building3] #4811007
07/11/18 07:13 AM
07/11/18 07:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,513
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
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'Stralia
Both of the statements that you provide as "bookend" arguments aren't factual, or realistic.

Just use what's in the book. And give it a decent run when you have the opportunity.

Re: Thick or Thin: What's more important for storage? [Re: Building3] #4811009
07/11/18 07:21 AM
07/11/18 07:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,553
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
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Posts: 12,553
Idaho
What temperatures will you be starting the engine?


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Thick or Thin: What's more important for storage? [Re: Building3] #4811016
07/11/18 07:28 AM
07/11/18 07:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,899
WNY
redhat Offline
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WNY
I'm sure my fellow IT folks on here will get it when I say:

I was coming in here thinking this might be about network attached storage.


17 Taurus Limited AWD - Dealer Fill of MCSB 5W-20 FL500S, 15k
14 Civic EX Coupe - NAPA Syn 0W-20 TG7317, 64k
09 Accord Sedan 5MT - Traveler 15W-40 XG7317, 151k
87 Regal Limited - 20W-50 VR1 WIX 51042
Re: Thick or Thin: What's more important for storage? [Re: CT8] #4811019
07/11/18 07:31 AM
07/11/18 07:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Michigan
Building3 Offline OP
Building3  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
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Michigan
Cars will be started at 55F (in a heated garage) and up to 95F in the summer time. Cars will be driven in temps as low as 40F up to 95F

Re: Thick or Thin: What's more important for storage? [Re: Building3] #4811056
07/11/18 07:53 AM
07/11/18 07:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,553
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
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Posts: 12,553
Idaho
Originally Posted By: Building3
Cars will be started at 55F (in a heated garage) and up to 95F in the summer time. Cars will be driven in temps as low as 40F up to 95F
Thicker oil.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Thick or Thin: What's more important for storage? [Re: Building3] #4811059
07/11/18 07:55 AM
07/11/18 07:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,268
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline
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Upper Midwest
After a prolonged period of time the grade of the oil isn't going to make a bit of difference in regards to the residual film thickness. After a few hours the film thickness is down to a few microns regardless of the viscosity of the oil.


1994 BMW 530i, 238K
1996 Honda Accord, 266K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 407K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 280K
Re: Thick or Thin: What's more important for storage? [Re: Building3] #4811075
07/11/18 08:07 AM
07/11/18 08:07 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,655
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline
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Posts: 5,655
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Oil weight will be much less a factor than making sure the system is primed before starting the engine.

I've worked it out to where I pull the appropriate fuse before storing, and then priming the engine before re-inserting said fuse before actual starting.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Thick or Thin: What's more important for storage? [Re: Building3] #4811119
07/11/18 08:37 AM
07/11/18 08:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,753
Hudson, NH
LeakySeals Online content
LeakySeals  Online Content
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Hudson, NH
Maybe the clinging molecules in castrol edge magnatec would help?


06 Escalade 6.0L LQ9 AWD 165k M1 5w30
03 Maxima 3.5L POS 152k ST HM 10w30
Re: Thick or Thin: What's more important for storage? [Re: Building3] #4811126
07/11/18 08:46 AM
07/11/18 08:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,012
5600 feet elevation, Arizona
double vanos Offline
double vanos  Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,012
5600 feet elevation, Arizona
0w40


Sabine Schmitz is the Queen of the 'Ring; Svetlana Kapanina is the Queen of the SKIES...
Re: Thick or Thin: What's more important for storage? [Re: Building3] #4811189
07/11/18 09:55 AM
07/11/18 09:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,071
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
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Posts: 6,071
Kalifornia Kollective
For storage the biggest issue is "drain off". It happens sometimes, mostly with synthetic oils. But, that's a very broad category in the US ...

Some oils have a lower surface tension based on the chemistry. Lower surface tension helps them attain things like 0W, etc. but it means they are less likely to maintain capillary fill. Small voids will always have a film of oil once wetted. But they can loose the thicker film cushion. Start the motor after sitting for a while (week) and they rattle until ALL the oil circulates. And since half the engine is lubed by splash and sling oil (not pumped oil), they can be quite noisy.

Good old dino oils have a mix of hydrocarbon chains by their nature. They almost always have higher surface tension and better capillary fill. They are almost always quieter on cold start after sitting.

The other issue is the filter and the anti-drain-back-valve. You want the best one you can get so that oil does not drain back into the sump. For me, that's always been WIX or Baldwin. Napa GOLD same. Use best filter you can (for construction, not necessarily efficiency).

So something like Chevron Supreme 10W-30 (easily good down to 0*F) and a Napa Gold filter means more robust residual film, quiet cold starts, and good lubrication. It's the residual oil film that has to do all the work until the oil is moving well. Sling oil off the crank is only oil that gets to cylinder walls and some cam systems.

Pumped pressure is there simply to overcome gravity for the upper end. It does not do much for a lot of the motor. So I think about residual oil film strength and film thickness over time, for seldom used vehicles (ranch trucks that only run seasonally, tractors, etc.).

If your vehicles seldom run, maybe this is the approach to take ...


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Thick or Thin: What's more important for storage? [Re: Building3] #4811265
07/11/18 11:21 AM
07/11/18 11:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 286
WY
sloinker Offline
sloinker  Offline
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Posts: 286
WY
Ester based oils have an inherent polar affinity for metal surfaces.

Re: Thick or Thin: What's more important for storage? [Re: kschachn] #4811604
07/11/18 04:46 PM
07/11/18 04:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,513
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
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Posts: 41,513
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: kschachn
After a prolonged period of time the grade of the oil isn't going to make a bit of difference in regards to the residual film thickness. After a few hours the film thickness is down to a few microns regardless of the viscosity of the oil.


Bearings and pistons will still be chock a block full after years of sitting.

I've NEVER pulled apart a dry engine.

Re: Thick or Thin: What's more important for storage? [Re: Building3] #4811629
07/11/18 05:22 PM
07/11/18 05:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,096
Fredericksburg, VA
JAG Offline
JAG  Offline
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Posts: 5,096
Fredericksburg, VA
I donít think itís an issue worth spending much thought on, from a lubrication on startup perspective. It might help to have a bottle of Hy-per Lube Zinc Replacement additive in the oil since it has viscous polymer esters that are attracted to metal more so than Groups II-IV. Itís not a question of how thick are the oil films when the engine is off. Most of those thicknesses are next to zero because two or more parts have a compressive load on them, and since there is no motion, the films collapse to near zero. However, viscous esters are preferentially attracted metals more so than less polar oils, causing their concentration next to the surfaces to be higher than their concentration away from the surfaces, especially when the engine has been sitting for a long time. Because they are viscous, they help with lubrication when the engine is started up. I have no idea how much difference it would make but it only costs about $16.

Engines that sit outside and are infrequently used can have corrosion issues, albeit likely minor enough not to show up visually but enough to show up in a UOA. Some people have used oils that have additives that inhibit corrosion in the vapor phase. Some boat engine oils have these, such as Valvoline: https://www.valvoline.com/en-australia/our-products/engine-oil/valvoline-4-stroke-outboard-oil

Re: Thick or Thin: What's more important for storage? [Re: Shannow] #4812031
07/12/18 07:36 AM
07/12/18 07:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,268
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,268
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: kschachn
After a prolonged period of time the grade of the oil isn't going to make a bit of difference in regards to the residual film thickness. After a few hours the film thickness is down to a few microns regardless of the viscosity of the oil.

Bearings and pistons will still be chock a block full after years of sitting.

I've NEVER pulled apart a dry engine.

Absolutely, I didn't mean for my post to imply otherwise. I tried to word it carefully as a specific response to the question title of "Thick or Thin: What's more important for storage?" I was pointing out that after a prolonged drain time the viscosity is not the determining factor in residual film thickness.


1994 BMW 530i, 238K
1996 Honda Accord, 266K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 407K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 280K
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