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Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? #4809911
07/10/18 06:49 AM
07/10/18 06:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,093
Michigan
ZZman Offline OP
ZZman  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,093
Michigan
My daughter just had our first grandchild. The cost of childcare is unbelievable. I am not sure how the younger generation does it.

I came from a family with one brother. I had 2 kids.

Do you think cost is keeping the number of kids down or have we become more selfish over time and want "our" time?

Last edited by ZZman; 07/10/18 06:49 AM.

2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Motul 7100 10w-40 and K&N
Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman] #4809915
07/10/18 06:50 AM
07/10/18 06:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
mightymousetech Offline
mightymousetech  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
Zero kids for me and my wife. Ever.


Mighty Mouse Tech
BMW Tech, Former Acura Tech
2010 Civic Si Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
2013 BMW 135i M Sport Edition Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman] #4809916
07/10/18 06:52 AM
07/10/18 06:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,418
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,418
'Stralia
Its a situation that has been intentionally created.

Will go into it further later...or via PM

Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: mightymousetech] #4809922
07/10/18 07:01 AM
07/10/18 07:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,822
Columbus, Ohio
John_K Offline
John_K  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,822
Columbus, Ohio
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Zero kids for me and my wife. Ever.


Have to agree.

Between child care and student loans I really don't know ho2 young people make ends meet.


2009 Mercury Grand Marquis, 8 cyl auto, 83xxx miles, PU/Fram Ultra
2005 Hyundai Sonata, 4 cyl auto, 96xxx miles, Maxlife/OEM Filter
Current oil stash: 527 qts.


Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman] #4809923
07/10/18 07:03 AM
07/10/18 07:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,513
KY
MCompact Offline
MCompact  Offline
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,513
KY
We had one child; we might have had another if the first had slept though the night more than once in the first 16 months. That said, having just one kid save us a ton of money and kept us out of appliance vehicle purgatory.
To each his own...


Mine:
2014 M235i
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2009 Cooper Clubman

Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...
Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman] #4809926
07/10/18 07:05 AM
07/10/18 07:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,712
Marshfield , MA
andyd Offline
andyd  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,712
Marshfield , MA
ZZ and Mrs ZZ. Help out as much as possible. My daughter works a full week with 2 pre-schoolers. My wife watches them. She has since day one. Putting newborns into daycare is just plain wrong. The socio/economic conditions that require both parents to work outside the home are just plain wrong.


'16 Camry LE STP synth 0w20 and STP filter. the Fridge

1994 Ranger ,the Rat, 5w30 dino, STP filter

'16 Camry SE, Valvoline HM 0w20 and OEM filter
Thick oil is better grin2
Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: John_K] #4809930
07/10/18 07:07 AM
07/10/18 07:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 993
PA,US
HemiHawk Offline
HemiHawk  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 993
PA,US
Originally Posted By: John_K

Have to agree.

Between child care and student loans I really don't know how young people make ends meet.


I might consider having 1 kid eventually (30 now). But you're right, its pretty cost prohibitive these days. Good childcare centers in my area are 1500-2000 a month. That doesn't include all the other things needed for for a baby/child.

I'm sure some in here will blame this "generation" on being lazy or whatever, but birth rates are declining. and from my circle of peers (well off working folks) I can tell you its not just that we don't want them.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/...to-a-record-low


2016 Nissan Frontier Pro4x
2017 VW GTI sport
1995 Mustang GTS
Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman] #4809934
07/10/18 07:09 AM
07/10/18 07:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,360
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,360
New England
It is pretty much the norm for childbirth rates to drop as civilizations advance, and typically the wealthiest parts of those societies have the lowest birth rates.
The Emperor Augustus was furious that the Roman patricians of his time had so few children and enacted laws to try to FORCE them to procreate...they didn't work.
Can't point to a single reason for this, it is a very complex phenomenon.


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman] #4809948
07/10/18 07:32 AM
07/10/18 07:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,378
Chicago,IL,USA
pandus13 Offline
pandus13  Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,378
Chicago,IL,USA
ZZman,

It's complex. and really not easy.

First, 2 kids, stay-at-home mom.
One has a Gluten-alergy. So my food is a bit more expensive than some (but no Whole foods prices due to hunting for deals)
Me, I earn kind of mid-low for my industry (IT), yet not student loans, cars paid-off, live in a condo in a good school area (most houses are $400k, $600k,....)

Now what is different than your generation:
-you need 2 vehicles these days unless you live in a big city with good public transport
-child-care is expensive
-hard to come on part-time really flexible jobs to accommodate a regular school schedule (which aligns about 85% with a regular part-time job)
-you usually need 2 incomes
-some jobs pay you for 40 hours and expect 50-60 and flexible weekends
-houses are more expensive
-student debt is more then xx years ago
-healthcare is more expensive

So now most young people, get out of college+master, than hunt for a suitable job, than delay having a family (friends forever), than delay kids...

Last edited by pandus13; 07/10/18 07:34 AM. Reason: school schedule

16 Golf SportWagen
13 Mazda5
08 Yaris
04 Elantra
95 accent
95 mystique
97 concorde
Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman] #4809952
07/10/18 07:38 AM
07/10/18 07:38 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 173
NW Indiana
PSS Offline
PSS  Offline
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 173
NW Indiana
I have two kids. Know lots with one.

Your right no is having 1 1/2 kids any more. Those 1/2 kids are not nearly as complete as the wholes.

Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman] #4809963
07/10/18 07:47 AM
07/10/18 07:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 232
where the wind blows....OK
geekster Offline
geekster  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 232
where the wind blows....OK
We only have one child.

My wife stayed home with her until she started school, which was 2 years ago. For us it's really about money. It doesn't keep the want of a second child at bay. We talk about it from time to time, but it's just
not in the cards. Just our after school care for 2 hours a day after school is 5-600 a month depending on the days in the month. This summer it's costing around a grand a month for care. We can't responsibly do
that with two kids.

We don't have any family to speak of. My wife's parents are deceased and my mom is in a memory care facility. So any child care is left to us. If we did have a good extended family available, then it might make
having a second kid an option.

Now my wife is starting grad school and that will take up most of her extra time for the next two years. I honestly don't see how people do it with 2 or more kids. I see people at work who have 3-5 kids. Blows my mind.


17 Nissan Frontier SV 4.0 Royal Purple 5w30
15 Nissan Rogue 2.5 Royal Purple 5w30
16 KIA Forte 1.8 Royal Purple 5w30
Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman] #4809974
07/10/18 08:03 AM
07/10/18 08:03 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,387
Oklahoma
Schmoe Offline
Schmoe  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,387
Oklahoma
Crazy expensive just for one. World's population is way too high and needs to slow down.


01 Supercrew Lariat 4X4
06 Accord EX-L V6
14 CRV EX-L (RIP) 2018 CRV EX-L
Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman] #4809984
07/10/18 08:14 AM
07/10/18 08:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,230
Ontario, Canada
IndyIan Offline
IndyIan  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,230
Ontario, Canada
We have two boys and up here in the rural great white north, they aren't that expensive. Birth was free, daycare was $25/day, neighbors and friends gave the kids almost all their clothes so far. Some years we have to buy footwear and snow suits, but not every year.
Local level sports are pretty cheap. We got into downhill skiing last year for $~1.5k all in, including gear, lessons, and season passes.
Probably 80% of our sports equipment I get is used as we're not into any particular sport deep enough for equipment to be an issue yet.
University isn't all that cheap but we are saving enough for 4 year degree for each of them for a few hundred a month.
At 5 and 8 the biggest issue is time spent for sports, but I like helping out with the teams and our driving is pretty painless really.


07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 218km M1 5W30
18 Outback 2.5 CVT 15km 0W20
Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: mightymousetech] #4809991
07/10/18 08:23 AM
07/10/18 08:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,148
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,148
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Zero kids for me and my wife. Ever.


I'm the same. Both my wife and I never had stellar childhoods. We were forced to do without. My wife because of the alcoholism of her father. And me because of my parents divorce when I was just 11 years old. After my wife and I got married, we decided we both had sacrificed enough. No more. This was and is our time.

So we never wanted kids, or ever had any. It's a decision neither of us regret. Most of the guys I know who had kids, had all the problems that went along with that decision. Many can't retire due to the expense they encountered raising a pack of kids. Screw that noise. We never missed it, and enjoy our uncomplicated life, and all the time we can spend together. We want for nothing.

My wife's sister has had 2 kids, 2 marriages, and is currently broke and living alone. I keep telling my wife, if you have any doubts about the decisions you have made, take a look at her.

Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman] #4809993
07/10/18 08:24 AM
07/10/18 08:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 455
Utah, USA
28oz Offline
28oz  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 455
Utah, USA
I'm in my 40's and we have 4 kids. Two of them have medical conditions that require very expensive monthly medications. My [censored] and MBA degrees are less than 10 years old. I worked full time while doing my schooling and didn't get home until after 10 pm many nights. My wife hasn't worked since before our first child was born (16 years ago). We agreed from the outset that we would keep our living expenses within one income. It's been very hard at times, but has been very doable if priorities are in the right place. No grandparents around to watch the kids and certainly no "child-care". Only debt we carry is the mortgage. Student loans have been long paid off. Yes, many of my neighbors are very young, have nice new cars, campers, boats, and other toys, and have parents/in-laws who dump money on them. It's hard to see that since I grew up poor and had to fight for every scrap I've ever had. Just my experience. YMMV, of course.

Edit: Abbreviation for Bachelor Degree is censored. Ha!

Last edited by 28oz; 07/10/18 08:26 AM.

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1990 Nissan 300zx - Castrol Edge Euro 0W-40
2004 Nissan Quest - Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40
2003 Ford Excursion 7.3 PSD - Mobil 1 TDT 5w-40
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