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#4809911 - 07/10/18 07:49 AM Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm?
ZZman Offline


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 5832
Loc: Michigan
My daughter just had our first grandchild. The cost of childcare is unbelievable. I am not sure how the younger generation does it.

I came from a family with one brother. I had 2 kids.

Do you think cost is keeping the number of kids down or have we become more selfish over time and want "our" time?


Edited by ZZman (07/10/18 07:49 AM)
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#4809915 - 07/10/18 07:50 AM Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman]
mightymousetech Offline


Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 1470
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Zero kids for me and my wife. Ever.
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#4809916 - 07/10/18 07:52 AM Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 40126
Loc: 'Stralia
Its a situation that has been intentionally created.

Will go into it further later...or via PM

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#4809922 - 07/10/18 08:01 AM Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: mightymousetech]
John_K Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 2723
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Zero kids for me and my wife. Ever.


Have to agree.

Between child care and student loans I really don't know ho2 young people make ends meet.
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#4809923 - 07/10/18 08:03 AM Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman]
MCompact Offline


Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 4185
Loc: KY
We had one child; we might have had another if the first had slept though the night more than once in the first 16 months. That said, having just one kid save us a ton of money and kept us out of appliance vehicle purgatory.
To each his own...
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#4809926 - 07/10/18 08:05 AM Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman]
andyd Online   content


Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 7253
Loc: Marshfield , MA
ZZ and Mrs ZZ. Help out as much as possible. My daughter works a full week with 2 pre-schoolers. My wife watches them. She has since day one. Putting newborns into daycare is just plain wrong. The socio/economic conditions that require both parents to work outside the home are just plain wrong.
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#4809930 - 07/10/18 08:07 AM Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: John_K]
HemiHawk Offline


Registered: 03/09/16
Posts: 875
Loc: PA,US
Originally Posted By: John_K

Have to agree.

Between child care and student loans I really don't know how young people make ends meet.


I might consider having 1 kid eventually (30 now). But you're right, its pretty cost prohibitive these days. Good childcare centers in my area are 1500-2000 a month. That doesn't include all the other things needed for for a baby/child.

I'm sure some in here will blame this "generation" on being lazy or whatever, but birth rates are declining. and from my circle of peers (well off working folks) I can tell you its not just that we don't want them.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/...to-a-record-low
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#4809934 - 07/10/18 08:09 AM Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 4042
Loc: New England
It is pretty much the norm for childbirth rates to drop as civilizations advance, and typically the wealthiest parts of those societies have the lowest birth rates.
The Emperor Augustus was furious that the Roman patricians of his time had so few children and enacted laws to try to FORCE them to procreate...they didn't work.
Can't point to a single reason for this, it is a very complex phenomenon.
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#4809948 - 07/10/18 08:32 AM Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman]
pandus13 Offline


Registered: 08/12/11
Posts: 3280
Loc: Chicago,IL,USA
ZZman,

It's complex. and really not easy.

First, 2 kids, stay-at-home mom.
One has a Gluten-alergy. So my food is a bit more expensive than some (but no Whole foods prices due to hunting for deals)
Me, I earn kind of mid-low for my industry (IT), yet not student loans, cars paid-off, live in a condo in a good school area (most houses are $400k, $600k,....)

Now what is different than your generation:
-you need 2 vehicles these days unless you live in a big city with good public transport
-child-care is expensive
-hard to come on part-time really flexible jobs to accommodate a regular school schedule (which aligns about 85% with a regular part-time job)
-you usually need 2 incomes
-some jobs pay you for 40 hours and expect 50-60 and flexible weekends
-houses are more expensive
-student debt is more then xx years ago
-healthcare is more expensive

So now most young people, get out of college+master, than hunt for a suitable job, than delay having a family (friends forever), than delay kids...


Edited by pandus13 (07/10/18 08:34 AM)
Edit Reason: school schedule
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#4809952 - 07/10/18 08:38 AM Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman]
PSS Offline


Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 167
Loc: NW Indiana
I have two kids. Know lots with one.

Your right no is having 1 1/2 kids any more. Those 1/2 kids are not nearly as complete as the wholes.

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#4809963 - 07/10/18 08:47 AM Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman]
geekster Offline


Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 226
Loc: where the wind blows....OK
We only have one child.

My wife stayed home with her until she started school, which was 2 years ago. For us it's really about money. It doesn't keep the want of a second child at bay. We talk about it from time to time, but it's just
not in the cards. Just our after school care for 2 hours a day after school is 5-600 a month depending on the days in the month. This summer it's costing around a grand a month for care. We can't responsibly do
that with two kids.

We don't have any family to speak of. My wife's parents are deceased and my mom is in a memory care facility. So any child care is left to us. If we did have a good extended family available, then it might make
having a second kid an option.

Now my wife is starting grad school and that will take up most of her extra time for the next two years. I honestly don't see how people do it with 2 or more kids. I see people at work who have 3-5 kids. Blows my mind.
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#4809974 - 07/10/18 09:03 AM Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman]
Schmoe Offline


Registered: 05/12/03
Posts: 7276
Loc: Oklahoma
Crazy expensive just for one. World's population is way too high and needs to slow down.
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#4809984 - 07/10/18 09:14 AM Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman]
IndyIan Offline


Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 9104
Loc: Ontario, Canada
We have two boys and up here in the rural great white north, they aren't that expensive. Birth was free, daycare was $25/day, neighbors and friends gave the kids almost all their clothes so far. Some years we have to buy footwear and snow suits, but not every year.
Local level sports are pretty cheap. We got into downhill skiing last year for $~1.5k all in, including gear, lessons, and season passes.
Probably 80% of our sports equipment I get is used as we're not into any particular sport deep enough for equipment to be an issue yet.
University isn't all that cheap but we are saving enough for 4 year degree for each of them for a few hundred a month.
At 5 and 8 the biggest issue is time spent for sports, but I like helping out with the teams and our driving is pretty painless really.
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#4809991 - 07/10/18 09:23 AM Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: mightymousetech]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4537
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Zero kids for me and my wife. Ever.


I'm the same. Both my wife and I never had stellar childhoods. We were forced to do without. My wife because of the alcoholism of her father. And me because of my parents divorce when I was just 11 years old. After my wife and I got married, we decided we both had sacrificed enough. No more. This was and is our time.

So we never wanted kids, or ever had any. It's a decision neither of us regret. Most of the guys I know who had kids, had all the problems that went along with that decision. Many can't retire due to the expense they encountered raising a pack of kids. Screw that noise. We never missed it, and enjoy our uncomplicated life, and all the time we can spend together. We want for nothing.

My wife's sister has had 2 kids, 2 marriages, and is currently broke and living alone. I keep telling my wife, if you have any doubts about the decisions you have made, take a look at her.

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#4809993 - 07/10/18 09:24 AM Re: Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm? [Re: ZZman]
28oz Offline


Registered: 04/20/17
Posts: 383
Loc: Utah, USA
I'm in my 40's and we have 4 kids. Two of them have medical conditions that require very expensive monthly medications. My [censored] and MBA degrees are less than 10 years old. I worked full time while doing my schooling and didn't get home until after 10 pm many nights. My wife hasn't worked since before our first child was born (16 years ago). We agreed from the outset that we would keep our living expenses within one income. It's been very hard at times, but has been very doable if priorities are in the right place. No grandparents around to watch the kids and certainly no "child-care". Only debt we carry is the mortgage. Student loans have been long paid off. Yes, many of my neighbors are very young, have nice new cars, campers, boats, and other toys, and have parents/in-laws who dump money on them. It's hard to see that since I grew up poor and had to fight for every scrap I've ever had. Just my experience. YMMV, of course.

Edit: Abbreviation for Bachelor Degree is censored. Ha!


Edited by 28oz (07/10/18 09:26 AM)
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