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#4797842 - 06/26/18 10:07 AM Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds
grampi Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 7845
Loc: OH
I don't know how many times I've heard people say "the Blue Angels are better than the Thunderbirds". I just saw the Blue Angels perform at the Dayton air show this past Sunday and I still say the Thunderbirds put on a better show...

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#4797851 - 06/26/18 10:18 AM Re: Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds [Re: grampi]
Astro14 Offline


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 8600
Loc: Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't know how many times I've heard people say "the Blue Angels are better than the Thunderbirds". I just saw the Blue Angels perform at the Dayton air show this past Sunday and I still say the Thunderbirds put on a better show...


You're the one that keeps bleating about how great the Thunderbirds are. Over, and over, and over.

And over.

The T-Birds simply don't fly as close as the Blues. Never have. The Blue Angels existed before the Thunderbirds. The Blue Angels were flying shows before there even was a United States Air Force.

But, I will admit, the Blue Angels simply can't match the T-Bird crash rate. My favorite: accidentally shutting down your engine* and crashing in front of POTUS during an airshow at the USAF Academy...hard to top that maneuver!

https://www.denverpost.com/2016/12/14/thunderbirds-crash-cause-colorado-springs/

*The "official" story. However, he called "bingo", meaning fuel low, 15 minutes prior to the crash...and there was no post-crash fire...but one doesn't want to admit that a T-Bird ran out of gas, so the "sticking throttle switch" makes for a fig leaf of legitimacy...but only a fig leaf...


Edited by Astro14 (06/26/18 10:23 AM)
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#4797861 - 06/26/18 10:28 AM Re: Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds [Re: grampi]
turtlevette Online   shocked


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 3649
Loc: Massachusetts
I like to watch the big fighters. I remember as a kid the f4s would come screaming a couple hundred feet over the house to get people fired up for the air show. You'd think the world was coming to an end. It made the ground shake.

In later years they came with the f16s which of course is a more nimble capable jet. Just not impressive at all to me. A huge disappointment.
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#4797864 - 06/26/18 10:30 AM Re: Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds [Re: grampi]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 29992
Loc: NY
No disrespect, I love all branches of the service, and have the utmost respect for anyone serving, or that served. Having said that Navy imo has the best pilots in any branch of the service. Just taking off from a carrier or landing on a carrier takes some real special skills. Having the opportunity to spent a week on the Vinson last year and seeing an air show from the Vultures Nest of the ship was something I will never forget, it was extremely impressive.
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#4797891 - 06/26/18 11:03 AM Re: Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds [Re: Astro14]
grampi Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 7845
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't know how many times I've heard people say "the Blue Angels are better than the Thunderbirds". I just saw the Blue Angels perform at the Dayton air show this past Sunday and I still say the Thunderbirds put on a better show...


You're the one that keeps bleating about how great the Thunderbirds are. Over, and over, and over.

And over.

The T-Birds simply don't fly as close as the Blues. Never have. The Blue Angels existed before the Thunderbirds. The Blue Angels were flying shows before there even was a United States Air Force.

But, I will admit, the Blue Angels simply can't match the T-Bird crash rate. My favorite: accidentally shutting down your engine* and crashing in front of POTUS during an airshow at the USAF Academy...hard to top that maneuver!

https://www.denverpost.com/2016/12/14/thunderbirds-crash-cause-colorado-springs/

*The "official" story. However, he called "bingo", meaning fuel low, 15 minutes prior to the crash...and there was no post-crash fire...but one doesn't want to admit that a T-Bird ran out of gas, so the "sticking throttle switch" makes for a fig leaf of legitimacy...but only a fig leaf...


Maybe the fact that the BAs flying a few inches closer together than the T-birds do doesn't really seem to add anything to the show, as far as being impressive to watch. The maneuvers the T-Birds do are more impressive to watch.


Edited by grampi (06/26/18 11:05 AM)

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#4797893 - 06/26/18 11:04 AM Re: Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds [Re: turtlevette]
grampi Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 7845
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I like to watch the big fighters. I remember as a kid the f4s would come screaming a couple hundred feet over the house to get people fired up for the air show. You'd think the world was coming to an end. It made the ground shake.

In later years they came with the f16s which of course is a more nimble capable jet. Just not impressive at all to me. A huge disappointment.



I don't know how a more nimble and capable A/C doesn't impress you. I liked watching the F4s too, but the 16s would fly circles around them...

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#4797897 - 06/26/18 11:10 AM Re: Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds [Re: grampi]
Win Offline


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 4454
Loc: Arkansas
My gripe about the Blue Angels would be that they rarely fly shows out here in fly over country, but the Thunderbirds will show up about anywhere there is a flying guard base or decent airport. I can't recall the last time I saw the Blue Angels.

I've seen Canada's team fly a few planes down here for air shows so they at least have a few planes on the ramp, and people you can talk to. Our very own Navy will send that C-130 once in a while. Big whoop. There are a zillion over at LRAFB. Around here, C-130's are more common in the air than 172's. They were doing night touch and go's last night about midnight - my primary residence is directly under a downwind turn to base for the local airport.
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#4797898 - 06/26/18 11:10 AM Re: Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds [Re: grampi]
IndyFan Offline


Registered: 06/16/05
Posts: 606
Loc: Danville, Indiana
I've seen both dozens of times and I can't see much difference. Both are incredible. Both have amazing jets. (I'd love to see the E/F Super Hornet, though). I like the paint job on the T-birds better, and think the F-16 is a sexier looking jet.

It's Ford vs. Chevy. People will get their dander up over something silly.

As for Navy pilots being better? Well, some are, and some aren't. General statements are silly, too.
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#4797900 - 06/26/18 11:17 AM Re: Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds [Re: IndyFan]
Bottom_Feeder Online   content


Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 3035
Loc: Occupied Virginia
Originally Posted By: IndyFan
It's Ford vs. Chevy. People will get their dander up over something silly.

Exactly. It seems to be very important to people nowadays to pick a side and to 'win'.

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#4797918 - 06/26/18 11:36 AM Re: Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds [Re: grampi]
Astro14 Offline


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 8600
Loc: Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't know how many times I've heard people say "the Blue Angels are better than the Thunderbirds". I just saw the Blue Angels perform at the Dayton air show this past Sunday and I still say the Thunderbirds put on a better show...


You're the one that keeps bleating about how great the Thunderbirds are. Over, and over, and over.

And over.

The T-Birds simply don't fly as close as the Blues. Never have. The Blue Angels existed before the Thunderbirds. The Blue Angels were flying shows before there even was a United States Air Force.

But, I will admit, the Blue Angels simply can't match the T-Bird crash rate. My favorite: accidentally shutting down your engine* and crashing in front of POTUS during an airshow at the USAF Academy...hard to top that maneuver!

https://www.denverpost.com/2016/12/14/thunderbirds-crash-cause-colorado-springs/

*The "official" story. However, he called "bingo", meaning fuel low, 15 minutes prior to the crash...and there was no post-crash fire...but one doesn't want to admit that a T-Bird ran out of gas, so the "sticking throttle switch" makes for a fig leaf of legitimacy...but only a fig leaf...


Maybe the fact that the BAs flying a few inches closer together than the T-birds do doesn't really seem to add anything to the show, as far as being impressive to watch. The maneuvers the T-Birds do are more impressive to watch.


Itís not just a matter of close together.

The shows are different.

The jets are different.

The T-birds use the energy addition of the F-16 to impress with maneuvers.

https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/airshow/military/media/Thunderbirds_Maneuvers_Package.pdf

Loops.

Lots of loops.

The Blues exploit the superior slow speed handling of the Hornet to do things that the T-birds simply cannot do.

E.G. fly next to each other while one is inverted. Fly next to each other while one is dirty and inverted. Do a dirty roll on takeoff. A slow speed high alpha pass. A simulated carrier wave off and dirty climb.

If you understand airplanes, all of those maneuvers are harder, and more impressive, than zooming up for another loop or vertical maneuver.

The Blues could fly the T-birds show, but instead, they choose do things that the T-birds simply cannot do.

And they do it while flying closer together.
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#4797919 - 06/26/18 11:36 AM Re: Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds [Re: IndyFan]
grampi Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 7845
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: IndyFan
I've seen both dozens of times and I can't see much difference. Both are incredible. Both have amazing jets. (I'd love to see the E/F Super Hornet, though). I like the paint job on the T-birds better, and think the F-16 is a sexier looking jet.

It's Ford vs. Chevy. People will get their dander up over something silly.

As for Navy pilots being better? Well, some are, and some aren't. General statements are silly, too.


Astro 14 is the one who always claims Navy pilots are better than AF pilots...personally, I think ones as good as the other, and both are the best in the world...

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#4797920 - 06/26/18 11:36 AM Re: Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds [Re: grampi]
Mr Nice Offline


Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 21343
Loc: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't know how many times I've heard people say "the Blue Angels are better than the Thunderbirds". I just saw the Blue Angels perform at the Dayton air show this past Sunday and I still say the Thunderbirds put on a better show...


Maybe you are biased since you are ex USAF... ?

I'm ex ANG and in my opinion the Blue Angels are simply AMAZING !!!!!!

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#4797922 - 06/26/18 11:39 AM Re: Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds [Re: grampi]
Astro14 Offline


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 8600
Loc: Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: IndyFan
I've seen both dozens of times and I can't see much difference. Both are incredible. Both have amazing jets. (I'd love to see the E/F Super Hornet, though). I like the paint job on the T-birds better, and think the F-16 is a sexier looking jet.

It's Ford vs. Chevy. People will get their dander up over something silly.

As for Navy pilots being better? Well, some are, and some aren't. General statements are silly, too.


Astro 14 is the one who always claims Navy pilots are better than AF pilots...personally, I think ones as good as the other, and both are the best in the world...


Thatís not entirely true.

I defend Navy pilots every time you claim that USAF pilots are better.

I defend the Blues every time you claim the T-birds are better.

I donít start this.. Thatís the difference here.


Edited by Astro14 (06/26/18 11:39 AM)
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#4797923 - 06/26/18 11:40 AM Re: Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds [Re: turtlevette]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 4053
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I like to watch the big fighters. I remember as a kid the f4s would come screaming a couple hundred feet over the house to get people fired up for the air show. You'd think the world was coming to an end. It made the ground shake.
In later years they came with the f16s which of course is a more nimble capable jet. Just not impressive at all to me. A huge disappointment

I have to say the coolest thing I ever saw at an air show may have been an airliner buzzing the crowd with a very low level pass over the shore at the Lakefront Air&Water Show in Chicago back in the '80s. It just getting closer and closer and we couldn't believe how tight the pass was and how loud the thing was...wasn't a giant jet, maybe 737ish.
A foreign air team (Italian?) also performed at that show with fairly small planes and one of them peeled away from the formation and passed between two of the tall buildings downtown...no way that would be allowed after 9/11. That was pretty cool, but really more shocking than anything. Can't remember if the Tbirds or Angels flew at that particular show, I think they took turns every other year and I saw both of them there multiple times.
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#4797924 - 06/26/18 11:42 AM Re: Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds [Re: grampi]
28oz Online   content


Registered: 04/20/17
Posts: 384
Loc: Utah, USA
I've seen both many times growing up and have to agree with Astro. The Blues do maneuvers the T-Birds don't for whatever reason......I'll leave the technical explanations to his expertise. However, I DO enjoy and appreciate both teams, having just seen the T-Birds do their thing 3 days ago.

My favorite though, is watching the Blues while sitting on the beach in Pensacola. Man, I miss that.
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