Flashing third tail light

[ffhdriver]

My son and his wife had their cars totaled in the last two months from rear end accidents. They weren;t hurt and the insurance companies gave very fair settlements. They were sitting still in a line of traffic so the flashing third brake light wouldn't have helped but rear end accidents can be a problem even if OILFILTERS doesn't think so..

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Originally Posted By: wag123
Mercedes and BMW (among others) are not "uneducated safety police trying to invent something they know nothing about".

Mercedes and BMW know nothing about Americans and how they drive. What might work in Europe is totally different here. Also, they have always been at the top at including extra unneeded [censored] on all their cars.

So, do you honestly believe that they don't have distracted drivers and auto accidents in Europe? Specifically, what unneeded junk do they have on their cars that we don't have on our cars here? Mercedes and BMW sure do sell a lot of vehicles here knowing nothing about Americans and how they drive. Have you been living under a rock?

 

[OilFilters]

Originally Posted By: wag123
You obviously don't live in a majorly congested metro area. Rear-end collisions represent the MAJORITY of accidents where I live.
ALL accidents are dangerous, and many rear-end collisions are deadly! If a simple inexpensive device can cut down on rear-end collisions significantly (Mercedes and BMW say 70%), it is WELL worth having.


So are you trying to say that all these rear end accidents are because people couldn't see the brake lights? Like drunk/distracted drivers don't see the normal brake light but will stop for a blinking one? Are there ANY statistics that a blinking light reduces rear end collisions??

I find it hard to believe you actually looked up the statistics for highest cause of traffic accidents in your area before posting that.

 

[OilFilters]

Originally Posted By: wag123
So, do you honestly believe that they don't have distracted drivers and auto accidents in Europe?


Europeans and Americans are very different. Most Americans that see a blinking brake light think "there's a moron doing something illegal".

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Are there ANY statistics that a blinking light reduces rear end collisions?? I find it hard to believe you actually looked up the statistics for highest cause of traffic accidents in your area before posting that.

Just because YOU don't believe it doesn't mean that it isn't so.
Have you done any research?
Well, here ya go...
https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2002/wp29gre/TRANS-WP29-GRE-49-09e.pdf
http://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite/e...tml?oid=9905287
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...ear-End_Crashes
https://blinkingbrakelights.com/facts/

FACT: The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) reports that rear impact collisions result in more injuries than any other type of automobile accident.
FACT: According to the National Safety Council, rear-end collisions are the most common type of automobile accident. Each year, more than 2.5 million rear-end accidents happen in the United States. The NSC also reports that about 20 percent of drivers hit from behind experience whiplash, which can be a long-lasting and debilitating injury.

Lowering the braking response time is the number one way to effectively reduce rear end collisions. Flashing lights are more easily recognized by a human's peripheral vision. Brake lights that flash at between 4hz and 7hz reduce braking response time by at least .5 seconds. This kind of improvement is enough to reduce the incidence of rear-end collisions by almost 70% under most conditions.

During my daily travels I see rear-end collisions almost every day.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Most Americans that see a blinking brake light think "there's a moron doing something illegal".
Please provide source of this information.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Originally Posted By: wag123
So, do you honestly believe that they don't have distracted drivers and auto accidents in Europe?


Europeans and Americans are very different. Most Americans that see a blinking brake light think "there's a moron doing something illegal".

Nonsense!

 

[OilFilters]

Originally Posted By: wag123
Lowering the braking response time is the number one way to effectively reduce rear end collisions. Flashing lights are more easily recognized by a human's peripheral vision. Brake lights that flash at between 4hz and 7hz reduce braking response time by at least .5 seconds. This kind of improvement is enough to reduce the incidence of rear-end collisions by almost 70% under most conditions.

Do you have ANY evidence that a blinking 3rd brake light reduces rear end collisions? I'm betting no.

Originally Posted By: wag123
During my daily travels I see rear-end collisions almost every day.

That's pretty weird. In my daily travels I can't remember ever seeing that happen. In the last year I've driven entirely across the US 4 different times on 4 different routes, through most major cities. Never saw a single one. Around 15,000 miles total. End up driving through major cities in a big truck at rush hour all the time(including several trips through various parts of Texas)...

Your city must be significantly more dangerous than most others. Maybe you should move if you are that concerned about safety.

 

[OilFilters]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Most Americans that see a blinking brake light think "there's a moron doing something illegal".
Please provide source of this information.




Please provide a source that shows blinking brake lights reduce accidents.

Fact remains it's ILLEGAL, not DOT approved, and you can get a ticket for it. I DO NOT support illegal activity, and neither does this forum.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Most Americans that see a blinking brake light think "there's a moron doing something illegal".
Please provide source of this information.




Please provide a source that shows blinking brake lights reduce accidents.
I never claimed that it does. That is why I wrote "If" in my earlier response.

You still haven't answered my question.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Please provide a source that shows blinking brake lights reduce accidents. Fact remains it's ILLEGAL, not DOT approved, and you can get a ticket for it. I DO NOT support illegal activity, and neither does this forum.

I am the one in this thread to point out that flashing brake lights were not DOT approved and illegal in SOME states.
Just because something is not DOT approved for inclusion by manufacturers in new vehicles does not necessarily mean that it is illegal. The legality of installing/using an accessory after a vehicle is manufactured is entirely up to the states. Dark window tint film is a prime example of this. Flashing 3rd brake lights are illegal in 13 states, but not where I live, so I am NOT breaking the law.

Admittedly, the actual number of rear-end collisions flashing 3rd brake lights have prevented is anecdotal since the DOT has not approved them and they are not being installed by the manufacturers in new cars in the USA (other than a few thousand Mercedes S and E class cars). But, the research done proving that it reduces braking reaction time is NOT anecdotal, and by doing the math, the reduction in braking reaction time amounts to a vehicle being able to stop roughly 13-15 feet shorter in lower speed situations where a driver is not drunk or drugged. This is easily enough to prevent a large percentage of rear-end collisions.

Originally Posted By: OilFilters
I just don't see rear end accidents as a problem that needs addressed. It's not like it's a major plague.

I beg to differ.
FACT: In the USA, rear-end collisions account for 31% of all accidents that result in deaths and injuries (NHTSA).
FACT: 5% of all fatal crashes occur in rear end collisions, economic cost $18.3 Billion per year (NHTSA).
FACT: While drunken/drugged driving remains the leading cause of all FATAL collisions in the USA, distracted/inattentive driving has become a leading cause of ALL collisions (NHTSA).

After having been rear-ended a couple of times, I decided to do something about it, so I installed 3rd brake light flashers after reading about them. My wife and I have not been victims of a rear-end collision since I installed them in both of our vehicles over 10 years ago, and we live in a metro area (Austin) where the traffic congestion and accident rate has almost doubled during that time period.
Yes, I do see rear-end collisions almost daily, in fact, almost every traffic jam that I am regularly stuck in is caused by a rear-end collision. The traffic congestion here is horrible and the drivers here are terrible. Also, even though texting while driving is illegal, some people do it anyway. Worse, they are now putting their smartphone down in their lap to avoid getting caught doing it, which compounds the problem.

 

[OilFilters]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
You still haven't answered my question.


That people think those with blinking brake lights are morons and wonder why their car is miswired? Do you think there is study for this? First time I saw one I thought "that idiot has his blinkers wired wrong". Then I realized "that idiot did that on purpose" after I saw a few. Then my friend was riding with me and said about the same thing without ever hearing me say it. Plenty of people in this thread think the same.

I can see this on a school bus or an ambulance. Maybe even a cop car. Possibly a motorcycle. Your Kia or whatever silly little thing you drive around? No need. You might as well open the window and scream "LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME!" If they are going to see the flashing light they already saw your car. That isn't why they didn't stop.

As for the illegal part, just ask DOT.

School buses in NC include a flashing white strobe light on the top at the back (always on). It's supposed to help prevent kids from getting run over. Don't know if there are any statistics that say it works, but a school bus is one thing...start doing this on your car and people will think something is wrong with you.

 

[OilFilters]

Originally Posted By: wag123

FACT: In the USA, rear-end collisions account for 31% of all accidents that result in deaths and injuries (NHTSA).
FACT: 5% of all fatal crashes occur in rear end collisions, economic cost $18.3 Billion per year (NHTSA).
FACT: While drunken/drugged driving remains the leading cause of all FATAL collisions in the USA, distracted/inattentive driving has become a leading cause of ALL collisions (NHTSA).


Problem is there is no evidence that supports a flashing light will solve this. As was pointed out earlier, if everybody had one, it would be a NIGHTMARE in traffic, especially at night!

If someone is distracted enough not to see your car, then they probably aren't going to see your light either. They don't rear end you because your brake lights were hard to read.

 

[jeff78]

Originally Posted By: wag123
I am the one in this thread to point out that flashing brake lights were not DOT approved and illegal in SOME states.
Just because something is not DOT approved for inclusion by manufacturers in new vehicles does not necessarily mean that it is illegal.


The photometric requirements and behavior of brake lamps is outlined in Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108 - they are required to burn steadily when the brakes are applied. There is no allowance for flashing. Because it is a federal safety standard, states may not override it. In the event of a conflict ('my state's motor vehicle code says it's okay for brake lights to flash'), the state loses.

It wouldn't be much of a federal safety standard if states could override parts of it arbitrarily, would it?


Quote:
The legality of installing/using an accessory after a vehicle is manufactured is entirely up to the states.


Only if the accessory is not regulated by or in conflict to federal safety standards. For example, if you want to put a Rudolph nose on the center of your front grille at Christmas, chances are it is not going to affect the crashworthiness of your vehicle, so would not be prohibited to sell or install. However, if the Rudolph nose is one that lights up bright red, that would be in violation of FMVSS 108 and would not only be illegal but unwise for obvious reasons.

Flashing brake lamps are not legal for passenger vehicles, regardless of what the people selling/installing these modifications or your state says. I can only assume that the sellers/installers are clueless about the law - it is either that, or they are outright lying.



We had this discussion over in the motorcycle section, my post below has cites:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...mod#Post4772803

 

[jeff78]

Originally Posted By: bmwpowere36m3
I have them on my motorcycle... certainly can't hurt.

https://www.visordown.com/news/general/are-flashing-brake-lights-legal


Yes, they're legal....in Europe. Visordown is a UK based site. European vehicle lighting requirements are covered by UN ECE regulations.

The U.S. uses its own separate lighting standards, not UN ECE.


Having them can hurt you if you for example get rearended and your insurance company finds out you have an illegal brake light modification and they decide to not cover you.

 

[jeff78]

Originally Posted By: OilFilters
If someone is distracted enough not to see your car, then they probably aren't going to see your light either. They don't rear end you because your brake lights were hard to read.


I'm inclined to agree.

I've been rear ended twice on my motorcycle. Both were non-serious collisions. I didn't get knocked off and they were at such a low speed that my rear tire basically acted as a bumper.

The first time, I was stopped at a red light in broad daylight. The lady was apologetic, said she saw me but wasn't able to come to a full stop in time. I didn't hear any screeching of tires though so I assumed she simply didn't press her brake pedal hard enough, crazy as that sounds. I wasn't looking in my mirrors so I didn't know what her approach speed was. This was many years ago, before the distraction of cell phones.

The second time I was stopped behind traffic at night. The guy who rearended me said he didn't see me, and while my wearing a black jacket and black helmet couldn't have helped things, this was only about 3 or 4 years ago so there's a possibility he was on his phone but I can't be sure. I did hear his tires chirp briefly before impact.

Both times, a flashing brake light wouldn't have helped since I was already stopped, not beginning to apply the brakes where the flashing is supposed to 'reduce reaction times'.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: OilFilters
That people think those with blinking brake lights are morons and wonder why their car is miswired? Do you think there is study for this?
Exactly, there is no study, so how do you know that most people think they are morons?


Quote:
First time I saw one I thought "that idiot has his blinkers wired wrong". Then I realized "that idiot did that on purpose" after I saw a few. Then my friend was riding with me and said about the same thing without ever hearing me say it.
You and your friend thought that, and from that you extrapolated that:
Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Most Americans that see a blinking brake light think "there's a moron doing something illegal".

Got it. Thanks.

Quote:
Plenty of people in this thread think the same.
And plenty in this thread also think otherwise.

All I'm saying is that dismissing an idea/function before any study is done just because you personally think it's stupid is a little close-minded. I am open to someone giving it an honest try to determine if it has some benefits. BTW, I wouldn't want it flashing all the time either. Only when you are doing emergency braking.

Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Driven many vehicles without those features. Never a problem.
Right. Never a problem until one day it saves your butt.

 

[OilFilters]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
All I'm saying is that dismissing an idea/function before any study is done just because you personally think it's stupid is a little close-minded.


Bottom line is it is ILLEGAL. Therefore, it is stupid to do this to your car. Period. Just as stupid as using illegal colored lights in the wrong places.

If this were saving lives, I doubt it would be illegal. The technology of having flashing lights has been around long enough for this to have been changed.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Bottom line is it is ILLEGAL.

More close-mindedness on your part. Many things used to be illegal until they became legal. If I'm not mistaken, up until recently, asymmetric headlights were illegal in the US.

The correct course of action is:
1. Do research to determine if an idea has benefit.
2. If yes, revise laws to make it legal. If not, move on.

Quote:
If this were saving lives, I doubt it would be illegal.
Based on what was posted earlier in this thread, it sounds like other countries did some research into this and decided that it was worth legalizing it.

But this is US we are talking about. We are still using imperial units here.

 

[OilFilters]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Based on what was posted earlier in this thread, it sounds like other countries did some research into this and decided that it was worth legalizing it.


And yet nobody can find this information. Interesting.

Hey, heroin is legal in some places in Europe. Let's do that too!

As far as I'm concerned, Europe is a very bad example to pull laws from.