Becoming a Thin Oil Guy

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: edyvw
In Europe, it is still HTHS 3.5 and above, even new B38/48/58 engines.


Good to know. Further proof that low HTHS oils in NA market are driven by CAFE fuel economy requirements, not long-term engine reliability and longevity. BMW engines have a hard enough time making it to 150k as it is!

Hard time making 150k? V8, maybe. Inline 6 start to warm up at 150k.

 

[CarbonSteel]

I am new to the European car world, but it is fairly easy to see that 'thin oils' tend to be driven by CAFE requirements in the US--especially since Europe typically continues to use xW-40 oils as the OEM specification in most of their engines. With that said, my GLC specifies xW-40 and my wife's C300 specifies either xW-30 or xW-40 as the oil of choice. But based upon the viscosity results of the first UOA in my GLC, I am betting the dealer filled it with xW-30 despite the statement "Use only SAE 0W-40 or SAE 5W-40 engine oils
for Mercedes-AMG vehicles." in the owner's manual.

Time will tell if it was a mistake or shearing, but for me it is an easy choice (particularly with the clearance of Pennzoil Euro 0W-40 at Walmart these past few months)--I will be using xW-40 in all of my MB vehicles, because I see nothing to gain by using xW-30 in the C300 versus xW-40. I need to dig around and find the European owner's manual for the C300 (if they make that model in Europe) and see what is listed there for the oil.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Hard time making 150k? V8, maybe. Inline 6 start to warm up at 150k.


V8s especially, but compared to their Japanese counterparts, any modern BMW engine is a reliability nightmare.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Hard time making 150k? V8, maybe. Inline 6 start to warm up at 150k.


V8s especially, but compared to their Japanese counterparts, any modern BMW engine is a reliability nightmare.

Really? [censored] I have to tell my brother that his E61 525d (M57) did not make 300k with only thermostat changed.
You really think Japanese cars do not have issues? ccccc

 

[AttackingMid]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Hard time making 150k? V8, maybe. Inline 6 start to warm up at 150k.


V8s especially, but compared to their Japanese counterparts, any modern BMW engine is a reliability nightmare.


The six cylinder engine in a BMW is one of the things most of us owners can count on lasting a VERY long time. Now, some of the things attached to that engine that make it a car can be a different story. 245k miles and counting on my M52TU - wonderful engine.

AM.

 

[1JZ_E46]

I said “modern” BMW engine. As in N52 (maybe M54... still old) and up. M50/52 is ancient.

I’m a huge BMW guy, and you’re right that the engine internals are stout, but everything around the engine, including the cooling system, seems to fail before it should.

BMW couldn’t even figure out how to design a valve stem seal that wouldn’t start leaking by 100k for a decade. Two generations of engine have the same problem (N62 and non-TU N63). It’s maddening.

 

[BullittGT]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I think it's all in the engine bearing clearances and what you're going to do with it-for example, Ford specs 15W50 in the Mustang Track Pack 5.0 (and in the Shelby GT350), but the same engine (block) in a garden variety Mustang can handle 5W20 just fine. I've had no problems with the 4.6 2V and 5W20, both in an overloaded E-250 work van, and the Grand Marquis in my sig, because the engine oil clearances were designed for 5W20. Now, if the engine gets "looser", with bigger clearances, and resulting low oil pressure, then it's time to start climbing the viscosity ladder-all the way to 20W50 if necessary...


Actually the 4.6 v2 was designed for 30 not 20. They were later re-spec'd to 20. I don't think that they ever even though about 20 in like 1994-95 when the 2v was being designed and it's barely changed since then other than the heads and intake manifold. Same for the 4v. I don't think they were at all "designed" for 20. 20 is okay enough to still meet the long term quality requirements, or shorten it enough vs 30 to not be a large enough difference for them to care vs getting that fraction of a MPG increase.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
I said “modern” BMW engine. As in N52 (maybe M54... still old) and up. M50/52 is ancient.

I’m a huge BMW guy, and you’re right that the engine internals are stout, but everything around the engine, including the cooling system, seems to fail before it should.

BMW couldn’t even figure out how to design a valve stem seal that wouldn’t start leaking by 100k for a decade. Two generations of engine have the same problem (N62 and non-TU N63). It’s maddening.

M57 in 525d is actually more recent then one N62 in your car.
Cooling system was an issue on my 1989 318i with M10 engine and my 1991 520i.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
I used to run my e30 on 5w40 (as opposed to the 15w50 M1 the OP ran the car exclusively on) and it loved it!
Easier to rev and slightly better fuel economy.

I eventually went back to dino 15w40 due to cost and availability.
And mostly because I don't drive the car that much (2-3 times a year).
ALSO because the bike runs on the same oil

My E30 ran great on 5w-40 as well. I did similarly and ran on cheaper 15w-40 when it started consuming some.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
I am new to the European car world, but it is fairly easy to see that 'thin oils' tend to be driven by CAFE requirements in the US--especially since Europe typically continues to use xW-40 oils as the OEM specification in most of their engines. With that said, my GLC specifies xW-40 and my wife's C300 specifies either xW-30 or xW-40 as the oil of choice. But based upon the viscosity results of the first UOA in my GLC, I am betting the dealer filled it with xW-30 despite the statement "Use only SAE 0W-40 or SAE 5W-40 engine oils
for Mercedes-AMG vehicles." in the owner's manual.

Time will tell if it was a mistake or shearing, but for me it is an easy choice (particularly with the clearance of Pennzoil Euro 0W-40 at Walmart these past few months)--I will be using xW-40 in all of my MB vehicles, because I see nothing to gain by using xW-30 in the C300 versus xW-40. I need to dig around and find the European owner's manual for the C300 (if they make that model in Europe) and see what is listed there for the oil.


Does Europe have CO2 and emissions regulations? CO2 and fuel economy go hand in hand.

Even Germany has fairly little Autobahn that can go long durations at speed. Even in the East, where there are longer more barren stretches, there are tons of Polish and Romanian carivans with 60-80kph limitation stickers, and most every interchange has a rapid deceleration to 80-120kph.

IMO, the heavier oil requirement is more for transient high acceleration compared to at speed cruising. Even if the power-speed relationship is cubic, it's not a huge amount of power to cruise at 120-160kph. Accelerating quickly out of the speed zones takes a lot more.

And AMG cars are the ones likely to be run at highest speed (so highest power, again the speed-power relationship) for as long as possible, with the same frontal area and relatively similar cooling capability. It makes sense to spec those cars (which are also more likely to be tracked or used on speed runs) than the others.

Europe is a cooler climate overall than the USA, and the speed limits in most countries are rather conservative, IME.