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How would you use your gun? #4672775
02/21/18 07:59 AM
02/21/18 07:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,133
Michigan
ZZman Offline OP
ZZman  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,133
Michigan
If you own or carry do you think you would use your weapon for your and your families protection only, or would you also use it to intervene in a crime being committed?


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Motul 7100 10w-40 and K&N
Re: How would you use your gun? [Re: ZZman] #4672778
02/21/18 08:05 AM
02/21/18 08:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,116
Occupied Virginia
Bottom_Feeder Offline
Bottom_Feeder  Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,116
Occupied Virginia
I think you need to clarify what you mean by 'intervene in a crime being committed'.

Unless you are an off-duty LEO, using your own weapon to prevent a crime happening to someone else isn't the legal purpose of carrying it, right?

Re: How would you use your gun? [Re: Bottom_Feeder] #4672782
02/21/18 08:07 AM
02/21/18 08:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,133
Michigan
ZZman Offline OP
ZZman  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,133
Michigan
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Unless you are an off-duty LEO, using your own weapon to prevent a crime happening to someone else isn't the legal purpose of carrying it, right?

I think you need to clarify what you mean by 'intervene in a crime being committed'.


Citizens are allowed to arrest people committing felonies. Say you observed someone breaking into a house, a rape, a robbery, someone else's life is in danger etc..

Last edited by ZZman; 02/21/18 08:13 AM.

2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Motul 7100 10w-40 and K&N
Re: How would you use your gun? [Re: Bottom_Feeder] #4672784
02/21/18 08:08 AM
02/21/18 08:08 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,761
NH
supton Offline
supton  Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,761
NH
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
I think you need to clarify what you mean by 'intervene in a crime being committed'.

Unless you are an off-duty LEO, using your own weapon to prevent a crime happening to someone else isn't the legal purpose of carrying it, right?


Ditto. I do believe one has to believe someone else's life is in immanent danger. Anything less.. not justified.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 170k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 195k, his
Re: How would you use your gun? [Re: ZZman] #4672787
02/21/18 08:10 AM
02/21/18 08:10 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,761
NH
supton Offline
supton  Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,761
NH
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Citizens are allowed to arrest people committing felonies. Say you observed someone breaking into a house, a rape, a robbery etc..


Rape, sure: that is injury to someone else, with possibility of death. Breaking and entering? How do you know it's B&E? and not someone who lost their key and was going to replace that door anyhow? (and was having a bad day--one which you're about to make worse?).

You better be sure of what you're walking into. And willing to live with the consequences of reading it wrong.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 170k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 195k, his
Re: How would you use your gun? [Re: supton] #4672795
02/21/18 08:16 AM
02/21/18 08:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,133
Michigan
ZZman Offline OP
ZZman  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,133
Michigan
Originally Posted By: supton



You better be sure of what you're walking into. And willing to live with the consequences of reading it wrong.


Remember that using it and having to discharge it are two different things. You could hold someone with it until the police arrive.


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Motul 7100 10w-40 and K&N
Re: How would you use your gun? [Re: ZZman] #4672803
02/21/18 08:23 AM
02/21/18 08:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,252
Clinton Twp. MI
bradepb Offline
bradepb  Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,252
Clinton Twp. MI
If you take a decent CPL class in Michigan you would not have to ask.
Only in the case of imminent death or serious physical harm.
Don't get involved for any other reason especially a simple loss of property.
Our instructor used a scenario of the guy coming out of your garage rolling the wheels from your car, you yell at him and he keeps on trucking, call 911 leave your gun in the holster and wait, your not the law and you don't pull a gun and arrest people. If the guy drops your wheels and comes at you with a deadly weapon that is the time to act.

Last edited by bradepb; 02/21/18 08:26 AM.



Re: How would you use your gun? [Re: ZZman] #4672806
02/21/18 08:27 AM
02/21/18 08:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,159
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,159
Glendale, Arizona
Sadly, with the legal system becoming what it has evolved into today, it's a difficult enough of a decision to engage to protect your own life and family. Let alone trying to become the hero or good Samaritan trying to do it to save someone else. That might seem a bit selfish, but it's realistic in today's destructive, and expensive legal world.

Re: How would you use your gun? [Re: ZZman] #4672809
02/21/18 08:28 AM
02/21/18 08:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,475
Staten Island, NY
michaelluscher Offline
michaelluscher  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,475
Staten Island, NY
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Unless you are an off-duty LEO, using your own weapon to prevent a crime happening to someone else isn't the legal purpose of carrying it, right?

I think you need to clarify what you mean by 'intervene in a crime being committed'.


Citizens are allowed to arrest people committing felonies. Say you observed someone breaking into a house, a rape, a robbery, someone else's life is in danger etc..


If that's your immediate instinct, I'd suggest becoming a LEO

I hear they're always hiring


'06 Toyota Camry SE V6 3MZ-FE 100k
'01 Mercury Villager Estate VG33E 52k
'06 Ford Taurus SE Vulcan 60k
'13 Chrysler 300 3.6 Pentastar 230k
Re: How would you use your gun? [Re: michaelluscher] #4672814
02/21/18 08:31 AM
02/21/18 08:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,622
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,622
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: michaelluscher
If that's your immediate instinct, I'd suggest becoming a LEO

I hear they're always hiring

I thought the OP used to be a LEO.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: How would you use your gun? [Re: michaelluscher] #4672820
02/21/18 08:33 AM
02/21/18 08:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,422
MN
tmorris1 Offline
tmorris1  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,422
MN
Originally Posted By: michaelluscher
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Unless you are an off-duty LEO, using your own weapon to prevent a crime happening to someone else isn't the legal purpose of carrying it, right?

I think you need to clarify what you mean by 'intervene in a crime being committed'.


Citizens are allowed to arrest people committing felonies. Say you observed someone breaking into a house, a rape, a robbery, someone else's life is in danger etc..


If that's your immediate instinct, I'd suggest becoming a LEO

I hear they're always hiring

I don't think he is wrong though. I don't know that I could stand by and watch my neighbor's house get broken into.

Re: How would you use your gun? [Re: bradepb] #4672836
02/21/18 08:47 AM
02/21/18 08:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,133
Michigan
ZZman Offline OP
ZZman  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,133
Michigan
Originally Posted By: bradepb
If you take a decent CPL class in Michigan you would not have to ask.
Only in the case of imminent death or serious physical harm.
Don't get involved for any other reason especially a simple loss of property.
Our instructor used a scenario of the guy coming out of your garage rolling the wheels from your car, you yell at him and he keeps on trucking, call 911 leave your gun in the holster and wait, your not the law and you don't pull a gun and arrest people. If the guy drops your wheels and comes at you with a deadly weapon that is the time to act.


Once again the mere threat of use of the firearm may stop the crime. Discharging it would be a step further.


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Motul 7100 10w-40 and K&N
Re: How would you use your gun? [Re: ZZman] #4672839
02/21/18 08:49 AM
02/21/18 08:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,252
Clinton Twp. MI
bradepb Offline
bradepb  Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,252
Clinton Twp. MI
If you see your neighbors house being broken into and you go over there and intervene with a gun you are going to be in some serious trouble
That is merely a property crime and you are now the one that has escalated things into a deadly force situation.




Re: How would you use your gun? [Re: bradepb] #4672842
02/21/18 08:51 AM
02/21/18 08:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,133
Michigan
ZZman Offline OP
ZZman  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,133
Michigan
Originally Posted By: bradepb
If you take a decent CPL class in Michigan you would not have to ask.
Only in the case of imminent death or serious physical harm.
Don't get involved for any other reason especially a simple loss of property.
Our instructor used a scenario of the guy coming out of your garage rolling the wheels from your car, you yell at him and he keeps on trucking, call 911 leave your gun in the holster and wait, your not the law and you don't pull a gun and arrest people. If the guy drops your wheels and comes at you with a deadly weapon that is the time to act.


But that really isn't the law but is erring on the side of caution.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(gdvdp0hrzmmh4x1hz4ty2b5p))/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectName=mcl-764-16


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Motul 7100 10w-40 and K&N
Re: How would you use your gun? [Re: ZZman] #4672844
02/21/18 08:53 AM
02/21/18 08:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,252
Clinton Twp. MI
bradepb Offline
bradepb  Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,252
Clinton Twp. MI
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Originally Posted By: bradepb
If you take a decent CPL class in Michigan you would not have to ask.
Only in the case of imminent death or serious physical harm.
Don't get involved for any other reason especially a simple loss of property.
Our instructor used a scenario of the guy coming out of your garage rolling the wheels from your car, you yell at him and he keeps on trucking, call 911 leave your gun in the holster and wait, your not the law and you don't pull a gun and arrest people. If the guy drops your wheels and comes at you with a deadly weapon that is the time to act.


Once again the mere threat of use of the firearm may stop the crime. Discharging it would be a step further.


The threat of using a firearm or warning shots or anything like that is a big no-no, I really suggest talking to a good criminal attoney.




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