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#4644905 - 01/24/18 11:50 AM definition of short trip for a motorcycle
friendly_jacek Offline


Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 6605
Loc: southeast US
i'm well aware of problems with short trips in a car and I define short trip as less than 5-10 miles (in mild climate).

now, how about a motorcycle? specifically i'm thinking 250cc, 4-cycle, water cooled, with 1.6 qts oil capacity?

thanks!

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#4644912 - 01/24/18 11:58 AM Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5528
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
2 blocks laugh
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Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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#4645006 - 01/24/18 01:44 PM Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek]
Driz Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 261
Loc: northern NY
Same as a small airplane. Till you need gas or your bladder is screaming

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#4645016 - 01/24/18 01:56 PM Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek]
MotoTribologist Offline


Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 562
Loc: NJ, USA
Well what is your actual concern? Are you concerned with moisture accumulation due to the engine not reaching high enough temperatures often enough?

For street bikes this is typically less of a concern because they aren't usually ridden in wet weather and they are often stored in dry locations. Now there are undoubtedly exceptions to those conditions, but I'd say a large majority of bikes are ridden and stored dry.

Do you have reason to be concerned about moisture in your bike or are you asking in regards to a different potential issue?

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#4645070 - 01/24/18 02:56 PM Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek]
friendly_jacek Offline


Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 6605
Loc: southeast US
the concern is my son uses his bike in town for small distances. if this was a car, i would say that's short tripping and oil should be changed more often. i know nothing about bikes and hence i ask the question. according to honda oil should be changed every 8000 miles or 12 months. it's stored outdoors, if it makes a difference (he is a student living in a dorm).

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#4645076 - 01/24/18 03:05 PM Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek]
MotoTribologist Offline


Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 562
Loc: NJ, USA
Well then if it isn't being stored dry, only doing short trips would warrant more frequent oil changes, yes.

I wouldn't say 10 miles is a "short" trip though for a bike. They get up to temperature pretty fast. The sumps are small enough that there isn't a whole lot of oil to heat. If he is doing 10 miles daily or at least fairly regularly, I would think that should be enough to keep the moisture content low enough to not be overly worried about it.

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#4645079 - 01/24/18 03:09 PM Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek]
Truckedup Offline


Registered: 04/22/06
Posts: 139
Loc: Western NY state
Bikes that don't get warmed up do get condensation in the oil. I have seen it on different bikes ridden in cool weather..I suppose a small liquid cooled bike engine would be fully warmed up about the same as a small car...If the young man flogs the bike it'll warm up faster.....But flogging a cold engine is not so good... grin
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#4645102 - 01/24/18 03:23 PM Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 11018
Loc: Idaho
I like 2 stroke motorcycles the best
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"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
Geoff Metcalf

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#4645149 - 01/24/18 04:12 PM Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek]
barryh Offline


Registered: 01/09/16
Posts: 312
Loc: Cheshire, England
I have done a 3.6 mile commute year round for over 10 years. 473cc with oil run low at 1.8 L.

Summer is OK but even then the oil doesn't really get hot enough. Winter, you don't want to know how low the oil temperature is. I vent the crankcase overnight to let the moisture evaporate and change the oil at 1000 miles.

Air cooled engines only need a very short run before they carburate properly but in terms of oil temperature rise I think they are no better than cars. It doesn't help that my engine is probably too efficiently cooled by those cylinder struck out in the breeze.
_________________________
Barry

1979 BMW R45 (Triple QX 5W40)
2009 Mercedes C180K (Shell Helix Ultra 5W40)

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#4645169 - 01/24/18 04:30 PM Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek]
BigCahuna Offline


Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 2144
Loc: Deep in the heart of Jersey
I won't pull the bike out of the garage unless I plan on putting at least 50 miles on it. Especially in the winter. Too much to go thru getting all the heavy clothes on for a 10 minute ride.,,,

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#4645240 - 01/24/18 06:09 PM Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek]
tomcat27 Offline


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 3564
Loc: Chicago, IL
I would say anything less than 2 miles on a bike is a short trip. I would change the oil at least every 4k (or probably 2k) miles. but I'm sure that's overkill.
_________________________
2015 Rogue, 2014 Sentra, 2001 Camry, 2005 Starcraft, 1998 Dodge B1500
1996 Sebring Jx, 1984 F150, 1970 Cougar, 2013 XT250, 2010 Vstar, 2014 CTX1300

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#4645489 - 01/24/18 10:39 PM Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek]
Silk Offline


Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 4566
Loc: New Zealand
My scooter does a 3km trip everyday to work. Just gotta love a 2 stroke for lack of maintenance. I have a 150cc air cooled 4 stroke, it holds 2 litres of oil and the oil never warms up no matter how long I ride it.
_________________________
1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.

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#4645811 - 01/25/18 10:21 AM Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek]
jeff78 Online   content


Registered: 06/06/17
Posts: 132
Loc: New York
Only way to really know if the oil gets up to temperature is to install an oil temperature gauge.

What kind of miles are those 5-10 miles? 5-10 miles of stop and go traffic will get the oil nice and hot. 5-10 miles of highway riding, not so much.

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#4645835 - 01/25/18 10:40 AM Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek]
blupupher Offline


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 4429
Loc: Katy, Republic of Texas
I would not wait 8000 miles in those driving conditions. I would say 4000 miles or 1 year max if you at least take it out on a long (<30 minutes) highway ride every month or so.
If no long ride, every 4000 miles or 6 months.
Or when you notice shifting starting to get clunky or hard to find neutral (this is a big indicator, regardless of mileage).
I forgot who said it here, but "let your left foot decide when it is time to change the oil" is a good rule.

My bike gets a lot of short trips (3 miles each way to work, I can still put my hand on the side cover when I shut it down). I do make regular longer trips at least weekly most of the time.
With that, I decided on a 2500-3000 mile interval with conventional or syn blend oils, may stretch it to 4000 if I use a full syn. I do have a larger bike than the OP, as well as a larger oil capacity (1100cc and ~3.5 qt capacity).

_________________________
1994 Honda VT1100C: Peak 15w-40/TG/2500 mile OCI
2002 Ford F150: GTX HM 5w-20/EcoGard Syn/1yr OCI
2012 Scion xB: QSUD 0w-20/CQ Blue/5k OCI


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#4645885 - 01/25/18 11:33 AM Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek]
kmrcstintn Offline


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 564
Loc: Palmyra, PA
previous bike was a 2006 honda shadow 750 that was liquid cooled & sat/stored outdoors; it was notoriously cold blooded and took a long time to get fully warmed up...the longest oil change interval I ever did with it was 2700-2800 miles; my pattern was 750-1000 miles on the oil that was in during late autumn-winter-early spring riding & storage, 1 or 2 oil changes during riding season with 2000-2500 mile intervals, and another oil change in mid to late October for some riding & off season storage; being a DIYer helps keep costs down so doing more frequently doesn't break the bank; I know the tree huggers frown on not using an oil to its fullest potential and I plan to lengthen my OCI's to reduce using resources...
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'15 Jeep Patriot Sport (2.4L 4-cyl), '13 Genuine Buddy 125 (125cc air-cooled thumper), '14 Yamaha V Star 250 (250cc air cooled v-twin)

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