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definition of short trip for a motorcycle #4644905
01/24/18 11:50 AM
01/24/18 11:50 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,614
southeast US
friendly_jacek Offline OP
friendly_jacek  Offline OP
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,614
southeast US
i'm well aware of problems with short trips in a car and I define short trip as less than 5-10 miles (in mild climate).

now, how about a motorcycle? specifically i'm thinking 250cc, 4-cycle, water cooled, with 1.6 qts oil capacity?

thanks!

Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek] #4644912
01/24/18 11:58 AM
01/24/18 11:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,073
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,073
Kalifornia Kollective
2 blocks laugh


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek] #4645006
01/24/18 01:44 PM
01/24/18 01:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 344
northern NY
Driz Offline
Driz  Offline
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 344
northern NY
Same as a small airplane. Till you need gas or your bladder is screaming

Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek] #4645016
01/24/18 01:56 PM
01/24/18 01:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 686
NJ, USA
MotoTribologist Offline
MotoTribologist  Offline
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 686
NJ, USA
Well what is your actual concern? Are you concerned with moisture accumulation due to the engine not reaching high enough temperatures often enough?

For street bikes this is typically less of a concern because they aren't usually ridden in wet weather and they are often stored in dry locations. Now there are undoubtedly exceptions to those conditions, but I'd say a large majority of bikes are ridden and stored dry.

Do you have reason to be concerned about moisture in your bike or are you asking in regards to a different potential issue?

Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek] #4645070
01/24/18 02:56 PM
01/24/18 02:56 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,614
southeast US
friendly_jacek Offline OP
friendly_jacek  Offline OP
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,614
southeast US
the concern is my son uses his bike in town for small distances. if this was a car, i would say that's short tripping and oil should be changed more often. i know nothing about bikes and hence i ask the question. according to honda oil should be changed every 8000 miles or 12 months. it's stored outdoors, if it makes a difference (he is a student living in a dorm).

Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek] #4645076
01/24/18 03:05 PM
01/24/18 03:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 686
NJ, USA
MotoTribologist Offline
MotoTribologist  Offline
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 686
NJ, USA
Well then if it isn't being stored dry, only doing short trips would warrant more frequent oil changes, yes.

I wouldn't say 10 miles is a "short" trip though for a bike. They get up to temperature pretty fast. The sumps are small enough that there isn't a whole lot of oil to heat. If he is doing 10 miles daily or at least fairly regularly, I would think that should be enough to keep the moisture content low enough to not be overly worried about it.

Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek] #4645079
01/24/18 03:09 PM
01/24/18 03:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 147
Western NY state
Truckedup Offline
Truckedup  Offline
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 147
Western NY state
Bikes that don't get warmed up do get condensation in the oil. I have seen it on different bikes ridden in cool weather..I suppose a small liquid cooled bike engine would be fully warmed up about the same as a small car...If the young man flogs the bike it'll warm up faster.....But flogging a cold engine is not so good... grin


World's second fastest vintage Triumph 650, 133 MPH
Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek] #4645102
01/24/18 03:23 PM
01/24/18 03:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,555
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,555
Idaho
I like 2 stroke motorcycles the best


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek] #4645149
01/24/18 04:12 PM
01/24/18 04:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 333
Cheshire, England
barryh Offline
barryh  Offline
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 333
Cheshire, England
I have done a 3.6 mile commute year round for over 10 years. 473cc with oil run low at 1.8 L.

Summer is OK but even then the oil doesn't really get hot enough. Winter, you don't want to know how low the oil temperature is. I vent the crankcase overnight to let the moisture evaporate and change the oil at 1000 miles.

Air cooled engines only need a very short run before they carburate properly but in terms of oil temperature rise I think they are no better than cars. It doesn't help that my engine is probably too efficiently cooled by those cylinder struck out in the breeze.


Barry

1979 BMW R45 (Triple QX 5W40)
2009 Mercedes C180K (Shell Helix Ultra 5W40)
Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek] #4645169
01/24/18 04:30 PM
01/24/18 04:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,167
Deep in the heart of Jersey
BigCahuna Offline
BigCahuna  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,167
Deep in the heart of Jersey
I won't pull the bike out of the garage unless I plan on putting at least 50 miles on it. Especially in the winter. Too much to go thru getting all the heavy clothes on for a 10 minute ride.,,,

Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek] #4645240
01/24/18 06:09 PM
01/24/18 06:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,743
Chicago, IL
tomcat27 Offline
tomcat27  Offline
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,743
Chicago, IL
I would say anything less than 2 miles on a bike is a short trip. I would change the oil at least every 4k (or probably 2k) miles. but I'm sure that's overkill.


2019 Cherokee, 2018 Jetta, 2014 Sentra, 1995 Escort, 1970 Cougar, 2013 XT250, 2010 Vstar, 2014 CTX1300
Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek] #4645489
01/24/18 10:39 PM
01/24/18 10:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,891
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,891
New Zealand
My scooter does a 3km trip everyday to work. Just gotta love a 2 stroke for lack of maintenance. I have a 150cc air cooled 4 stroke, it holds 2 litres of oil and the oil never warms up no matter how long I ride it.


1987 BMW R65 - Aegis SAE30
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek] #4645811
01/25/18 10:21 AM
01/25/18 10:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 172
New York
jeff78 Offline
jeff78  Offline
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 172
New York
Only way to really know if the oil gets up to temperature is to install an oil temperature gauge.

What kind of miles are those 5-10 miles? 5-10 miles of stop and go traffic will get the oil nice and hot. 5-10 miles of highway riding, not so much.

Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek] #4645835
01/25/18 10:40 AM
01/25/18 10:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,802
Katy, Republic of Texas
blupupher Offline
blupupher  Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,802
Katy, Republic of Texas
I would not wait 8000 miles in those driving conditions. I would say 4000 miles or 1 year max if you at least take it out on a long (<30 minutes) highway ride every month or so.
If no long ride, every 4000 miles or 6 months.
Or when you notice shifting starting to get clunky or hard to find neutral (this is a big indicator, regardless of mileage).
I forgot who said it here, but "let your left foot decide when it is time to change the oil" is a good rule.

My bike gets a lot of short trips (3 miles each way to work, I can still put my hand on the side cover when I shut it down). I do make regular longer trips at least weekly most of the time.
With that, I decided on a 2500-3000 mile interval with conventional or syn blend oils, may stretch it to 4000 if I use a full syn. I do have a larger bike than the OP, as well as a larger oil capacity (1100cc and ~3.5 qt capacity).



2012 xB: QSUD 0w-20/CQ Blue/5k
2010 Santa Fe: PP 0w-20/P1/8k
2007 Vue: VSP 5w-30/EcoGard/OLM
2004 F150: GTX HM 5w-20/TG2/4k
2002 F150: GTX HM 5w-20/EcoGard/1yr
1994 VT1100c: Peak 15w-40/PSL/5k



Re: definition of short trip for a motorcycle [Re: friendly_jacek] #4645885
01/25/18 11:33 AM
01/25/18 11:33 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 593
Palmyra, PA
kmrcstintn Offline
kmrcstintn  Offline
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 593
Palmyra, PA
previous bike was a 2006 honda shadow 750 that was liquid cooled & sat/stored outdoors; it was notoriously cold blooded and took a long time to get fully warmed up...the longest oil change interval I ever did with it was 2700-2800 miles; my pattern was 750-1000 miles on the oil that was in during late autumn-winter-early spring riding & storage, 1 or 2 oil changes during riding season with 2000-2500 mile intervals, and another oil change in mid to late October for some riding & off season storage; being a DIYer helps keep costs down so doing more frequently doesn't break the bank; I know the tree huggers frown on not using an oil to its fullest potential and I plan to lengthen my OCI's to reduce using resources...


'15 Jeep Patriot Sport (2.4L 4-cyl), '13 Genuine Buddy 125 (125cc air-cooled thumper), '14 Yamaha V Star 250 (250cc air cooled v-twin)
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